MGTOW, Minimalism, dating and the Establishment reaction.

[Yinko]

I found this video interesting. He goes over all the main issues with modern relationships, likening it to an economic depression with supply and demand problems. There are a couple of theories he lays out that are pretty interesting comparisons, such as moderns as addicts and moderns as zoo animals.

Then at the end points out that urban areas have never had demographic replacement levels of reproduction and that he fully expects the social order of the next generation to be headed by the Rural Right because they are the only ones having families. Further, for one of the first times ever the Establishment does not have children, and thus have a hard time holding onto power.

It's a rare case of white-pilling.

 

[Cherico]

This is an establishment that will not be missed.

 

[Stargazer]

I found this video interesting. He goes over all the main issues with modern relationships, likening it to an economic depression with supply and demand problems. There are a couple of theories he lays out that are pretty interesting comparisons, such as moderns as addicts and moderns as zoo animals.

Then at the end points out that urban areas have never had demographic replacement levels of reproduction and that he fully expects the social order of the next generation to be headed by the Rural Right because they are the only ones having families. Further, for one of the first times ever the Establishment does not have children, and thus have a hard time holding onto power.

It's a rare case of white-pilling.

And that's why the establishment is so bent on indoctrinating children in the school systems. Why make your own children when you can take your enemy's children from them?

 

[Yinko]

And that's why the establishment is so bent on indoctrinating children in the school systems. Why make your own children when you can take your enemy's children from them?

That is such an easy thing to counter for any parent ready to give a damn though that it's barely worth considering. All the establishment needs to succeed is for good parents to trust the system to educate for them. I don't mean pulling them from schools, that can easily be made illegal, but rather failing to provide a counter narrative, not caring about what they are being taught or exposed to. The education system should be viewed like how the police view undercover cops, where they have to worry about passive indoctrination due to the nature of man as a social animal.

 

[Stargazer]

That is such an easy thing to counter for any parent ready to give a damn though that it's barely worth considering. All the establishment needs to succeed is for good parents to trust the system to educate for them. I don't mean pulling them from schools, that can easily be made illegal, but rather failing to provide a counter narrative, not caring about what they are being taught or exposed to. The education system should be viewed like how the police view undercover cops, where they have to worry about passive indoctrination due to the nature of man as a social animal.

Are you speaking from experience as a parent with children in the public school system, that it's "such an easy thing to counter"?

 

[Yinko]

Are you speaking from experience as a parent with children in the public school system, that it's "such an easy thing to counter"?

No. I simply know that most parents give barely any attention to what their kids learn, I was home schooled and my parents still bared cared. The only family I know personally that does are politically active ex-educators.

 

[Cherico]

And that's why the establishment is so bent on indoctrinating children in the school systems. Why make your own children when you can take your enemy's children from them?

It wont work.

Quite simply put the problems their creating keep getting worse. People are lonely unhappy, tired and broke and look around and see their standard of living getting worse, and even if your in the higher brackets your chances of having a meaningful relationship are being damaged by the same set of idiots with the same ideology that fucked up before.

This is one of the most fundamentally unhappy civilizational periods in world history. This is an environment that breeds defectors as the establishment has created a truely toxic and unhappy and joyless environment. I think the guys right and with out internet porn that people probally would have already had a rather violent revolution.

As is you got a lot of young people with out a lot of hope who are seeing everything around them get worse.

 

[mrttao]

Here's a pretty good podcast about the biology and sociology of sex that I think has a lot to do with why MGTOW is taking off:



TL;DW:
-The male genome is much more variable and faster to change than female genome due to men having the Y chromosome, which omits some redundancies the XX pairing has.
-Guys generally maintain a steadier level of sex drive throughout their life, with a general slant towards quantity and novelty.
-Most male behavior is shaped by the female... in situations where male demand for sex is higher than supply.
-In situations where fewer males are available, men gain the ability to shape female behavior.
-There's an evolutionary mismatch between male and female orgasms developed and what their purposes are. Female orgasm developed much later in human evolution.
-Humans basically evolved in a way that they'd pair up for 7-8 years, long enough for a child to mature enough to point where it could keep itself alive, then separate.
-Female sex drive consistently reduces after long-term bonding with a mate.
-Female sex drive/expression is far more controlled by social factors like education and religious adherence than the male sex drive.
-The Victorian era was the most prudish era, which was driven by women's response to the industrial revolution reducing the value of their labor, forcing them to rely more on sex appeal to attract mates, while also dealing with the sudden jump in life expectancy that stopped serial monogamy.
-Slut shaming is women's in-group method of preventing casual sex from happening at a level of dating that most women are uncomfortable with.
-Simp-shaming is men's in-group method of preventing resource extraction/emotional entanglement without gaining sex in return.

What I'm thinking is that there are two main root causes that are combining in MGTOW:

1. A biological mismatch in sexual desire and function between men and women.
2. Female societal behaviors caused by that biological mismatch.

If you follow the podcast's supply/demand analogy for sex, men are producing high demand for sex, while women are constraining the supply through social means.

But that's because men and women have completely different reasons why they want sex, plus completely incompatible sex drive profiles. The venn diagram of the two is basically only overlapping at "pleasure and making babies", and on an individual level, it's probably closer to just "pleasure". Men and women are basically on two totally divergent courses, which is exacerbated by female societal behaviors created by said mismatch.

Basically, I think MGTOW is a backlash against the basic reality that human women haven't kept up with biological demand and the social behaviors they use to exploit that fact. This would explain why shitty robot prostitutes can put actual women out of business, despite looking pretty terrible. Robot prostitutes easily meet the demand at a much lower rate of resource extraction, with the only negatives being lack of emotional connection and child birth.

Once you get really good AI, either in virtual or physical platforms, better looking hardware, and artificial wombs, there's no reason for a guy to actually bother with human women outside of philosophical or possibly economic reasons that make human women the cheaper option.

Men and women are different. everyone but insane leftoids knows that.
Different does not mean mismatch.

We have a very severe distortion from the govt. Where the govt is causes actual harm and vastly exacerbating the situation.

Every western country pushes feminist brainwashing on children through schools.
Every western country has laws that encourage women to self sabotage, sabotage men, sabotage relationships, and turns men into slaves for life to any woman they commit to.

There is a kernel of truth in what you say, but its blown way out of proportion for what is ultimately a problem caused by a cult (feminism) and govt (divorce laws meant to rape men)

 

[King of Light]

my experience with MGTOW has not been great. In all honesty it just seems like a mirrored universe version of feminism. they talk about "Men going their own way." but if you're a man and your way is not their way. Then you are "a self-hating man that's part of the problem" wow being accused of hating your own gender if you don't agree with certain ideologies? Where have I heard THAT before?

My issue with MGTOW is that they make it be about women.
It should be about bad women being enabled. Now whether you trust women or not, you should be also rational.

Women are not some monolith, but perhaps you won't trust. That is fine.
Also why is it about slutty women? Gods. Slutty women are to be seen and ignored. Don't get angry over them, they are not worth it.

 

[King Arts]

The issue isn’t women even slutty women. The issue is simps and cuckolds. Cuckolds are everywhere they shit up everything by defending every bad group from only fans whores to Antifa and communists.

 

[RenegadeInterrupt]

I generally lean pretty MGTOW (not because I hate women, but tbh they kind of scare me), but I will say something that MGTOW-Leaning men tend to do that pisses me off is the PassportBros shit. If you're a straight person it is normal for you to want to strengthen your bloodline through reproducing with a compatible mate, but as a VERY patriotic person the blind hatred a lot of the MGTOW/Redpill crowd has for American women specifically is kind of starting to piss me off. If this shit spreads it could become a legit threat to national security via sheer demographic mathematics. If enough men travel abroad to reproduce that shit is going to add up given a long enough period of time.

 

[mrttao]

My issue with MGTOW is that they make it be about women.
It should be about bad women being enabled. Now whether you trust women or not, you should be also rational.

Women are not some monolith, but perhaps you won't trust. That is fine.
Also why is it about slutty women? Gods. Slutty women are to be seen and ignored. Don't get angry over them, they are not worth it.

The problem with women is that they almost universally support blatant misandry and outright oppression of men.

its like muslims.
only 1% of muslims are terrorists. the other 99% actively support them.

take alimony for example.
its hard to even find statistics on this since this gets suppressed hard.
but i found this in jamaica

Jamaica Gleaner News - No money, honey! - Most Jamaicans oppose alimony payments to men - Friday | June 29, 2007

Two years after the passage of legislation providing for the payment of alimony (or palimony) to men upon the dissolution of a marriage or equivalent relationship, a substantial majority of Jamaicans remain opposed to it. In the latest Bill Johnson...

old.jamaica-gleaner.com

poll about making alimony gender neutral. the richer partner pays the housewife/househusband alimony

Article:

An overwhelming 81 per cent of female respondents said they were opposed to men receiving such payments, with only 15 per cent agreeing, and four per cent not offering an opinion. Among the men, 51 per cent said they were not in agreement with men receiving palimony, while 43 per cent said men should. Six per cent of the male respondents did not have an opinion.

it is the same in china, japan, israel, korea, usa, canada, australia, etc.

even if you find a woman that is correct on one of those subjects. odds are she will be misandrist on other subjects.
and that is just polls, those are those willing to openly admit they are misandrists.
a lot of them lie.

and to be fair, a lot of men are as well. as mentioned, cucks and simps are a horrible disease.

 

[King of Light]

The issue isn’t women even slutty women. The issue is simps and cuckolds. Cuckolds are everywhere they shit up everything by defending every bad group from only fans whores to Antifa and communists.

Honestly I find cucks to be worse, but can't say 'final solu-' ops.
A 'LISAN AL GAIB' war cry against all cucks!

 

[DarthOne]

The left often do these polls where they separate out degree vs high school. Their way of saying only uneducated "dumb" people support Trump. For me it’s just more evidence that colleges just brainwash people. When they polled who wanted a vaxx it was only the PHDs and non-college educated who said no.

Also, I've seen people blame women's high agreeableness for why they fall for this stuff. While I think it's part of it, I don't think it's the whole picture. It's a warped motherly instinct of sharing resources and trying to prop up the weakest. That's why they're so in favor of programs that redistribute wealth and forced giving to the "less fortunate." It's easy to convince these women of racism and discrimination in the same manner.

 

[DarthOne]

So, is this because A. Men are afraid of commitment, or B. Men aren't very interested in job interviews to be lifelong ATM machines to a "modern woman"?

Additionally, how can they claim this was a "safe space" for men... when no men felt "safe" enough to show up?

Woman goes to singles mixer—only women show up, sparking debate

'Somebody literally created a space where men can approach women that want to be approached ... and men saw that as strange.'

www.dailydot.com

I suspect it’s likely a mix of B and this:

If no guys showed up, I think very relevant questions are "Where the hell was this advertised?" and "What did the ads say?"

Because it's very possible they advertised on a social media platform guys don't know or care about, via some method that didn't work at all for the audience, and/or had wording in it that made guys go "Nah, not worth my time."

 

[DarthOne]

The issue isn’t women even slutty women. The issue is simps and cuckolds. Cuckolds are everywhere they shit up everything by defending every bad group from only fans whores to Antifa and communists.

It’s a mix of both that are this issue

 

[Carrot of Truth]

The worst part is that I have met multiple women like this. I sort of get why some men do the whole mgtow when the dating pool looks like this.

 

[Dauerschriff]

The worst part is that I have met multiple women like this. I sort of get why some men do the whole mgtow when the dating pool looks like this.

most Women feels things. They are entitled to their emotions. Their beliefs must be true because they know it inside.
( It is not a critic, there is some evolutionary psychology at play, quite obviously, neuroticism mus help for motherhood to avoid the baby to be eaten by a bear or smashed against the wall by a disgruntled caveman).

Guess why ancient Greek democracies did not care about their opinions? You can't argue or debate feelings, values and faiths, because it is outside of the realm of logic and reason.

To date a women is to pretend to value her inner core of ever changing sentiments and making her feel safe and that she is right, without being boring. It is not that hard, just exhausting. We should stop speaking man - women, but male - female and we would get much better result in understanding the trade, but i know that dehumanizing is not well perceived.

 

[King of Light]

most Women feels things. They are entitled to their emotions. Their beliefs must be true because they know it inside.
( It is not a critic, there is some evolutionary psychology at play, quite obviously, neuroticism mus help for motherhood to avoid the baby to be eaten by a bear or smashed against the wall by a disgruntled caveman).

Guess why ancient Greek democracies did not care about their opinions? You can't argue or debate feelings, values and faiths, because it is outside of the realm of logic and reason.

To date a women is to pretend to value her inner core of ever changing sentiments and making her feel safe and that she is right, without being boring. It is not that hard, just exhausting. We should stop speaking man - women, but male - female and we would get much better result in understanding the trade, but i know that dehumanizing is not well perceived.

Sincerely, the main issue is simps, men, fathers, lovers and others, instead of ENFORCING logical structure in thought since their birth, they decide to VALIDATE it for some godamned reason.
Honestly I would say a father MUST kill that idea of 'feel first, think later' in their daughters so they can survive if shit goes down the drain.

Don't debate feelings. Invalidate them when there is no point in them, and keep a REAL tight grip on worthless outburts.

 

[mrttao]

Sincerely, the main issue is simps, men, fathers, lovers and others, instead of ENFORCING logical structure in thought since their birth, they decide to VALIDATE it for some godamned reason.
Honestly I would say a father MUST kill that idea of 'feel first, think later' in their daughters so they can survive if shit goes down the drain.

Don't debate feelings. Invalidate them when there is no point in them, and keep a REAL tight grip on worthless outburts.

It is both.

I would say something like 90% of women and ~20% of men are retarded children in an adult body. This is a huge problem.
And most men are simps who enable these kind of idiocy is also a huge problem.