Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
Though given the reports of persistent morale issues in the Russia army, perhaps you have a point and they were dumb enough to do something like this.

What do you prefer losing, a scoobie mobile or a big-ass truck carrying 5x the supplies.
Also, it is listed as an all-retain vehicle and I recall seeing one move off road some years ago, I don't recall how shitty the offroad was, since I was a kid.

bintananth · Mar 30, 2022

Husky_Khan said:
I said Wikipedia has the Footnotes and that you can literally search for the actual names themselves since in almost every case they are named or in the rare case it is not, the unit is named...

I'm not questioning the validity of the list. I have doubts about its accuracy.

Those doubts do not contradict my thoughts on Russian Officer casualty rates: they're unsustainable.

Battlegrinder · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
What do you prefer losing, a scoobie mobile or a big-ass truck carrying 5x the supplies.

I'd prefer losing a few hundred rounds of autocannon ammo that the BMP leading the convoy had to fire off in order to suppress and eliminate the ambush.

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
I'd prefer losing a few hundred rounds of autocannon ammo that the BMP leading the convoy had to fire off in order to suppress and eliminate the ambush.

But what if the enemy has ATGMs.

bintananth · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
Though given the reports of persistent morale issues in the Russia army, perhaps you have a point and they were dumb enough to do something like this.

Considering that a Russian conscript gets about $30/mo it's no wonder they have morale problems.

Battlegrinder · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
But what if the enemy has ATGMs.

"Sir, we think the Ukrainians have ATGMs and are waiting in the woods in sector 5, waiting to ambush our supply convoys as they pass."

"Thank you for the intel soldier. Pull the BMPs off escort duty, even with their heavy weapons and thermal optics it's still too risky to try and have them engage anti tank weapons."

"Yes sir. Who should we have escort the convoys instead?"

"Escorts? Didn't you here me son, we can't risk losing AFVs for this."

"But sir, without escorting armor the supply trucks will be helpless!"

"Ugh, do I have to do all the thinking around here? Just send more trucks per convoy, the Ukrainians can't kill all of them! Oh, and use those old minivans for the lead vehicle, so they take the first hit instead of a real truck".

No wonder you're losing this war.

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
"Sir, we think the Ukrainians have ATGMs and are waiting in the woods in sector 5, waiting to ambush our supply convoys as they pass."

"Thank you for the intel soldier. Pull the BMPs off escort duty, even with their heavy weapons and thermal optics it's still too risky to try and have them engage anti tank weapons."

"Yes sir. Who should we have escort the convoys instead?"

"Escorts? Didn't you here me son, we can't risk losing AFVs for this."

"But sir, without escorting armor the supply trucks will be helpless!"

"Ugh, do I have to do all the thinking around here? Just send more trucks per convoy, the Ukrainians can't kill all of them! Oh, and use those old minivans for the lead vehicle, so they take the first hit instead of a real truck".

No wonder you're losing this war.

Assuming the BMPs weren't engaged somewhere else, of course.

Don't forget, Russia kinda overstretched in the first few days and they thought there would be less resistance, even I as a Russa fanboy can concede that they did all that and outran their supply lines.

But seriously, we never really saw if the Uaz was at the head of that column.
Maybe there was a BMP in front, then the UAZ came after it, then came the heavy trucks.

strunkenwhite · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Yeah, that is why I call bullshit, nowadays leading from the front is kind of out of style thanks to stuff like radio.

You mean the thing Russians don't have enough of? and much of what they do have is open comms subject to spying and interference?

Battlegrinder · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Assuming the BMPs weren't engaged somewhere else, of course.

Don't forget, Russia kinda overstretched in the first few days and they thought there would be less resistance, even I as a Russa fanboy can concede that they did all that and outran their supply lines.

But seriously, we never really saw if the Uaz was at the head of that column.
Maybe there was a BMP in front, then the UAZ came after it, then came the heavy trucks.

Ok, and all of that could very well be true. But I must point out that this argument has gone from "duh, you should totally put a minivan as the unit in your supply convoy because it's cheap and expendable, just like how I always use Miranda class ships as my lead units instead of Galaxies in STA III" to "well yes obviously putting the minivan out front is a bad idea, but maybe they had to do that/actually didn't do that/whatever" in the course of like an hour of discussion.

This is why I put next to no stock in Russian narratives, because they all seem to be very obviously working backwards from the conclusion that Russia is correct and constructing arguements to lead to that position, rather than looking at the evidence and seeing where it leads.

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

strunkenwhite said:
You mean the thing Russians don't have enough of? and much of what they do have is open comms subject to spying and interference?

Bacle said:
The copeniks don't want to think about the fact their holy Russian saviors blew their own OPSEC by destroying most of the 3G cell towers they came across, despite the fact the Vatnik secure comms relied on said towers.

Edit: So actual news.

Russian volunteers fighting for Ukraine, getting instructed on NLAW use.

Potential dirty bomb components missing from Chernobyl...very not good.

Yeah, sure, whatever the Ghost of Kiev tells you two...

Also, lol, the shitposting and other overflow threads are probably bigger than the OG thread.

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
Ok, and all of that could very well be true. But I must point out that this argument has gone from "duh, you should totally put a minivan as the unit in your supply convoy because it's cheap and expendable, just like how I always use Miranda class ships as my lead units instead of Galaxies in STA III" to "well yes obviously putting the minivan out front is a bad idea, but maybe they had to do that/actually didn't do that/whatever" in the course of like an hour of discussion.

This is why I put next to no stock in Russian narratives, because they all seem to be very obviously working backwards from the conclusion that Russia is correct and constructing arguements to lead to that position, rather than looking at the evidence and seeing where it leads.

Yeah, well, don't forget this is just one picture, taken out of context, and we are blindly theorizing how and why that UAZ was there.
If the crew survives the war and is willing to share their stories, then it will be cleared out.
Meanwhile, don't forget what Chieftain-sama said about manipulated combat footage and stuff getting taken out of context.

strunkenwhite · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Yeah, sure, whatever the Ghost of Kiev tells you two...

The Ghost of Kyiv isn't a talisman to wield against any and all criticism. Your complaint about the Ghost is that it's made up Ukrainian propaganda. Do you deny that the Russians have fewer radios than they'd like and fewer than western militaries have, and that many of the ones they do have have been observed to use unsecured channels?

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

strunkenwhite said:
The Ghost of Kyiv isn't a talisman to wield against any and all criticism. Your complaint about the Ghost is that it's made up Ukrainian propaganda. Do you deny that the Russians have fewer radios than they'd like and fewer than western militaries have, and that many of the ones they do have have been observed to use unsecured channels?

Do you prefer Zmeyni island Martyrs news agency?
Or perhaps Resurrected Chechen General Press?

Battlegrinder · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Yeah, well, don't forget this is just one picture, taken out of context, and we are blindly theorizing how and why that UAZ was there.

Actually, the original question was "how capable can a 4 cylinder minivan from the 60s possible be as a military logistics vehicle, alleged all terrain capability and all", with me raising eyebrows at the very concept, and saying it suggests several negative things about any military that tried it.

It was only later on and several very cope-sounding posts later that we go to "you see Ivan, American mystery machine go looking for ghosts, so Russian mystery machine is good at looking for ATGM teams".

strunkenwhite · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Do you prefer Zmeyni island Martyrs news agency?
Or perhaps Resurrected Chechen General Press?

You said the numbers of dead officers must be inflated because they can just use radio. If there's a shortage of secure radio communication ability, that would by your own logic be a solid reason for officers to find it necessary to go into harm's way (and some of them will die because it's a war).

So do you deny there's a shortage of secure radio comms for the Russians?
Or do you deny your own logic?

Agent23 · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
Actually, the original question was "how capable can a 4 cylinder minivan from the 60s possible be as a military logistics vehicle, alleged all terrain capability and all", with me raising eyebrows at the very concept, and saying it suggests several negative things about any military that tried it.

It was only later on and several very cope-sounding posts later that we go to "you see Ivan, American mystery machine go looking for ghosts, so Russian mystery machine is good at looking for ATGM teams".

Um, I think we were just talking about waifus, and here you go some videos of its offroad performance:

PsihoKekec · Mar 30, 2022

Battlegrinder said:
Actually, the original question was "how capable can a 4 cylinder minivan from the 60s possible be as a military logistics vehicle, alleged all terrain capability and all", with me raising eyebrows at the very concept, and saying it suggests several negative things about any military that tried it.

It's eastern europe military, if it's working, they will use it, when I was in service we still used some vehicles that should be in technical museum, rather in technical (those who had to drive them were mercilessly mocked though) service. Thus if spare parts are available and can be maintained without too much hassle it stays and it usually gets used for the most thankless tasks, in the war time it would most likely mean it would be the first soft skinned vehicle to follow the combat element, thus reducing the chance of more expensive trucks being shot up.

Aldarion · Mar 30, 2022

stephen the barbarian said:
yep, that's what war casualties look like when you're not the U.S.
moment of honesty, the us is fucking blessed on that front.

Mostly by good choice of enemies, though. Sure, US would have had easier time in Ukraine than Russia does, but likewise Russia will have had much easier time in Iraq than it does in Ukraine. Honestly, 1995. Croatia could have probably wiped out Iraqi military as it was in 2003., assuming somebody (God) provided logistical support to actually get HV a) through time and b) to Iraq...

Zachowon · Mar 30, 2022

The UAZ has no western military equivalent except maybe TMPs.
Which are non tactical vehicles used for Garrison duties.

If Russia had proper intel capabilities they wouldn't have the losses they have.
If they had armored vehicles with Thermal optics they would not be having the issue they are having...

But here we are arguing over why a UAZ is a good vehicle

Bacle · Mar 30, 2022

Agent23 said:
Yeah, sure, whatever the Ghost of Kiev tells you two...

Also, lol, the shitposting and other overflow threads are probably bigger than the OG thread.

Says the copenik who ignores anything not pro-Russia.

Also, Ghost of Kiev likely does exist, because you can still qualify as an ace-in-a-day if a few of your kills are attack helo's or VDV transport planes, not just other fighters.

However, I know nothing any of us say is going to get through to you, and you will keep coping/shilling for Putin-senpai until reality whack's you over the head.

Armchair General's DonbAss Derailed Discussion Thread (Topics Include History, Traps, and the Ongoing Slavic Civil War plus much much more)

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