Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
People can be wrong about one thing and right about another you know, and this includes governments.
Broken clocks are right twice a day and whatnot.
People can be wrong about one thing and right about another you know, and this includes governments.
Perhaps, but obviously I don't agree that they are right in this case, or appreciate being compared to a Holocaust denier; though I do find the irony in that (from someone who, like all of us, is denounced as a Nazi for having the wrong opinions) a bit darkly humorous. Also, keep that in mind when backing them on this that the establishment is going to eventually declare that all criticism of them is Russian propaganda, the promulgation of which is an act of treason.People can be wrong about one thing and right about another you know, and this includes governments.
Once again, you insist on not actually reading what people have actually said, even though you quoted them:Perhaps, but obviously I don't agree that they are right in this case, or appreciate being compared to a Holocaust denier;
I get this weird thing with (not saying there's equivalence, just pattern recognition) Holocaust deniers as well. They scream about "current narrative" being western propaganda, then proceed to quote the other side's propaganda as evidence of this. Political tribalism well and truly rots the brain in my view. It's gotten the better of quite a few on here and they have utterly embarrassed themselves as a result.
The comparison poisons the well.Once again, you insist on to actually reading what people have actually said, even though you quoted them:
If that were true, he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. That was just him going "I'm not saying people who disagree with me are Nazis, but..."Once again, you insist on not actually reading what people have actually said, even though you quoted them:
Moscow would never accept NATO troops possibly being within minutes flight time from Moscow; we saw what happened with the missiles we placed in Turkey that precipitated the Cuban Missile Crisis.
Have you considered that maybe Ukraine is a sovereign nation of 44 million people, and not a toy in a tug of war game? In the end it's their prerogative to seek NATO membership. Hell, the events of these past weeks absolutely prove that they were justified in it!
No. Did we all hallucinate the 2019 elections?
It's ~350 miles from Latvia (a NATO member) to Moscow. Ukraine to Moscow is ~270. The difference there in travel time for missiles is seconds. Do some bloody research before you repeat nonsensical claims like this.
I have yet to see you present a single shred of evidence that this is true. From what I've seen, it's more likely that the government before the 2014 coup was a Russian puppet government, but I know my familiarity with Ukraine is sparse enough that I might be misreading the situation. If you'd actually present some evidence, I might be persuaded you're right here.
We know that either way the Ukrainian government was very corrupt both before and after the coup, though whether it was worse before or after I don't know.
Sorry I missed this, but I'm not really sure what you're asking me to prove here.I have yet to see you present a single shred of evidence that this is true. From what I've seen, it's more likely that the government before the 2014 coup was a Russian puppet government, but I know my familiarity with Ukraine is sparse enough that I might be misreading the situation. If you'd actually present some evidence, I might be persuaded you're right here.
We know that either way the Ukrainian government was very corrupt both before and after the coup, though whether it was worse before or after I don't know.
NATO is not Ukraine, and as far as I know, there are no ABM/possible TCLM launchers in the Baltics, only Poland and Romania.And that's not already the case with the Baltic countries already being in NATO?
NATO is not Ukraine, and as far as I know, there are no ABM/possible TCLM launchers in the Baltics, only Poland and Romania.
Because Ukraine and the Baltics are different situations, in terms of what the risk vs rewards are for trying to have them in NATO and were also far less corrupt than Ukraine.So, why exactly can't the Baltic arrangement also work for Ukraine?
*whistles*were also far less corrupt than Ukraine
But a SSGN or any other warship can go to Baltics' coast.NATO is not Ukraine, and as far as I know, there are no ABM/possible TCLM launchers in the Baltics, only Poland and Romania.
US forces in the Baltics are tripwire forces mostly made of cav and armor, so they can at least fight through the first strikes of a nuclear war.
As well, the Ohio SSGN can go into the Med, but not the Black Sea, due to the agreements with Turkey and Russia about limiting the US to 1 warship at a time in the Black Sea, and I think that excludes subs. It what we gave up to get Turkey to bottle up a lot of the Black Sea Fleet and keep it from transiting to the Aegen freely.
They were a Russian puppet before 2014It's ~350 miles from Latvia (a NATO member) to Moscow. Ukraine to Moscow is ~270. The difference there in travel time for missiles is seconds. Do some bloody research before you repeat nonsensical claims like this.
I have yet to see you present a single shred of evidence that this is true. From what I've seen, it's more likely that the government before the 2014 coup was a Russian puppet government, but I know my familiarity with Ukraine is sparse enough that I might be misreading the situation. If you'd actually present some evidence, I might be persuaded you're right here.
We know that either way the Ukrainian government was very corrupt both before and after the coup, though whether it was worse before or after I don't know.
You do know there are NATO forces in every Baltic state that is a member of NATO right?NATO is not Ukraine, and as far as I know, there are no ABM/possible TCLM launchers in the Baltics, only Poland and Romania.
US forces in the Baltics are tripwire forces mostly made of cav and armor, so they can at least fight through the first strikes of a nuclear war.
As well, the Ohio SSGN can go into the Med, but not the Black Sea, due to the agreements with Turkey and Russia about limiting the US to 1 warship at a time in the Black Sea, and I think that excludes subs. It what we gave up to get Turkey to bottle up a lot of the Black Sea Fleet and keep it from transiting to the Aegen freely.
As well, Russia has Kaliningrad, which is really wants to have a land bridge to, only NATO membership for the Baltics kept Russia from pursuing that. I am all for letting in Finland and Sweden though; I always felt they were natural members that just didn't want to completely screw their neutrality with Moscow up to this point. Now I think they are no longer willing to tolerate Putin's paranoia or desire for empire.
I'm not the one who made the comparison.If that were true, he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. That was just him going "I'm not saying people who disagree with me are Nazis, but..."
What exactly is the difference to you between "doing it because we consider the war to be over" and "doing it as a gesture of peaceful intent"?The ship/sub numbers came down because we felt the Cold War was over, not as a peace overture to Russia.
I think there is no reason to look at recent events and conclude the US intelligence community isn't going to lie to us, but I do think it restores some confidence that, at least on some topics, it's not going to be dead fucking wrong.Why do you act like the US gov suddenly got all it's cred back, just because Putin decided to roll the dice on his, and his nation's, future, and maybe the world's future if things escalate.
Wait, did my post come across like I was accusing you of saying that? In that case, I apologize; I should have made it more clear that I was referring to Lord Sovereign's post with that short tangent.I'm not the one who made the comparison.