Military Cringe Thread

Bacle said:

Tricare is shit that even Walmart employees can get better than, for not too much more, and you completely dodged how bad the VA can get about trying to deny care to vets.

Also, trips to foreign lands to work for DC is no where near the same as a civies trip to the same places (though not sure many want to go to Kosovo). This is the same BS line about 'see the world' recruiters have been pitching for decades, and it doesn't work much anymore, because people have wised up, just like with the GI Bill and VA benefits.

Plus, 400 a month for food you get little choice over, besides just not picking it up, and small food stores on base is in no way any better than what civies deal with. Civies may spend more money, in average for food, but they also get better quality and the freedom of choice in what they purchase (unless they're on WIC or Food stamps, but that's a UBI issues, not a military vs civies thing).

Then let's get into dodging on the 'shit pay vs pay doesn't matter' that you dodged, because you know it's true and you know neither argument works well for civies who are not already inclined to join.

Half the time I think you took lessons from Frank Burns on MASH and Baghdad's Bob on how to try to paper over and deflect critisism of the military.

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Bacle
I look at my pay, and if it wasn't for my truck payment, I would have plenty to go shopping for myself food wise in stores like the commissary, where we get food cheaper then off post most of the time, and no tax, and the like, easily having enough to save me money in the long run.

You do know going to places like Japan, Korea, Germany I an allowed to do anything I can as long as I follow local laws. While I make untaxed money to put aside for later.
I can travel to any country in the EU, and if I have NY passport, ones outside of it (With exceptions like Russia, China, countries like that).
If it wasn't for COVID I would have traveled to Japan, Taiwan, etc from Korea for cheap.

When the Army says you can explore the world, if you put yourself in the position too, you can make good money while living on base.

And the food isn't that bad. We just always talk shit.
Every base has the go to DFAC. Some are better then others.

Tricare is free and I get decent health care for people who stay in shape.

The VA is shit, nothing I can argue for them. Everyone knows tbis

Zachowon said:

Bacle
I look at my pay, and if it wasn't for my truck payment, I would have plenty to go shopping for myself food wise in stores like the commissary, where we get food cheaper then off post most of the time, and no tax, and the like, easily having enough to save me money in the long run.

You do know going to places like Japan, Korea, Germany I an allowed to do anything I can as long as I follow local laws. While I make untaxed money to put aside for later.
I can travel to any country in the EU, and if I have NY passport, ones outside of it (With exceptions like Russia, China, countries like that).
If it wasn't for COVID I would have traveled to Japan, Taiwan, etc from Korea for cheap.

When the Army says you can explore the world, if you put yourself in the position too, you can make good money while living on base.

And the food isn't that bad. We just always talk shit.
Every base has the go to DFAC. Some are better then others.

Tricare is free and I get decent health care for people who stay in shape.

The VA is shit, nothing I can argue for them. Everyone knows tbis

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Is Tricare still free, once you get out? My impression was it is not.

As well, none of that changes the fact many jobs, particularly with the labor shortage, civies pay will always outstrip military pay of a similar nature or station, without the military strings/USMJ attached. Civies can also walk away and find a better paying job, and cannot be 'Stop Lossed' either.

Also, civies traveling abroad cannot have leaves cancelled on them for any reason a commander seems fit, or be forced to obey edicts that are collective punishment like what happens on Okinawa when a soldier commits a crime against a local.

There are literally no benefits the military offers, at least to those outside command tracks/positions who get to play politics and build golden parachutes, that has better benefits than civies work.

Which is precisely why no branch is having an easy time getting enlisted level positions filled or retained; the public is more aware than ever of how little the military life offers that cannot be gotten in civies life for a lot less hassle.

Bacle said:

Is Tricare still free, once you get out? My impression was it is not.

As well, none of that changes the fact many jobs, particularly with the labor shortage, civies pay will always outstrip military pay of a similar nature or station, without the military strings/USMJ attached. Civies can also walk away and find a better paying job, and cannot be 'Stop Lossed' either.

Also, civies traveling abroad cannot have leaves cancelled on them for any reason a commander seems fit, or be forced to obey edicts that are collective punishment like what happens on Okinawa when a soldier commits a crime against a local.

There are literally no benefits the military offers, at least to those outside command tracks/positions who get to play politics and build golden parachutes, that has better benefits than civies work.

Which is precisely why no branch is having an easy time getting enlisted level positions filled or retained; the public is more aware than ever of how little the military life offers that cannot be gotten in civies life for a lot less hassle.

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GI Bill is more useful then paying yourself through college or getting student loans.
Military is useful to get RID of student Loans as well, because the military can do that.

and the only branch really having difficulty getting people is the Navy. THe other branches say they do but really don't, because they have other things to get people in.

A commander cant just "Cancel" leave. He has to have a reason for it. If he doesn't have a good reason, go to IG because that is how it works.

Places like Okinawa, Korea, etc are different because we have to please the host nation. For instance, we are representatives of the American People to these other countries. A curfew was placed on the soldiers in Korea because people didn'tfollow a CGs rules. Breaking a four star generals rules are more then enough to get mass punishment, because they were caught,and plenty wernt.
Hell, the curfew they got rid of right before I got there, was caused because someone got drunk, stole a cab and tried to drive it on base.
Civies would end up in Korean jail and be charged in Korea, by Koreans. If the Embassy doesn't help. A US service member, unless commiting a major crime, would be charged by the US Military and not by the locals.

There are plenty of benefits. I get a nice place to stay on base. No rent, free heat/AC, Water, laundry machines. You get plenty of things when in or out in the financial realm. A lot of companies will give US military no interest for a damn good time on a loan.
Tricare is good when you are in, because any issues you have you get fixed, for free, and taking note of them can get benefits from the VA (Still an issue everyone can agree on).

The thing that turns people off of the military is people OUTSIDE the military not knowing what goes on in the military. Of course there are negatives, but honest perspectives from people currently in or were in, is a lot better outlook then a civilian.

Plenty of YouTubers who are active, Guard, or out, give a lot of takes and go on about a lot of these things.

Also, someone can get 10k for sitting at a computer and literally do nothing on a TDY

Zachowon said:

The thing that turns people off of the military is people OUTSIDE the military not knowing what goes on in the military. Of course there are negatives, but honest perspectives from people currently in or were in, is a lot better outlook then a civilian.

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You seem to forget vets exist who do not view the military in the light you do, and know just as much about military life and such as you do.

I know many vets who went into the cannabis industry and college and had none too high an opinion of the US military after having been in it and gotten out.

Those vets are part of the reason people outside the military have a dimmer and dimmer view of it.

No one has forgotten how Veitnam vets were treated by the government when it came to shit like Agent Orange exposure or how the gov likes to use 'classified' stamps to hide shit that would have OSHA or the EPA screaming bloody murder to Congress. As well, using 'classified' stamps for denying care for vets, if their service meant they were never 'officially' at a location with things like toxic, carcinogenic, or radioactive waste, is a known problem no one seems eager to address or even admit exists, despite public records of this crap.

It took a lawsuit by contractors at Area 51 for the gov to own up to dumping a lot of toxic material where workers could be exposed to it, and it took decades of work for Vietnam vets to get the gov to admit they had been exposed to Agent Orange.

Bacle said:

You seem to forget vets exist who do not view the military in the light you do, and know just as much about military life and such as you do.

I know many vets who went into the cannabis industry and college and had none too high an opinion of the US military after having been in it and gotten out.

Those vets are part of the reason people outside the military have a dimmer and dimmer view of it.

No one has forgotten how Veitnam vets were treated by the government when it came to shit like Agent Orange exposure or how the gov likes to use 'classified' stamps to hide shit that would have OSHA or the EPA screaming bloody murder to Congress. As well, using 'classified' stamps for denying care for vets, if their service meant they were never 'officially' at a location with things like toxic, carcinogenic, or radioactive waste, is a known problem no one seems eager to address or even admit exists, despite public records of this crap.

It took a lawsuit by contractors at Area 51 for the gov to own up to dumping a lot of toxic material where workers could be exposed to it, and it took decades of work for Vietnam vets to get the gov to admit they had been exposed to Agent Orange.

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Because if something is secret you are literally told from the get go "This does not exist outside of here" type of thing. Because, if we admit to having such a thing in some regards, the enemy now knows.

You do know the VA is now accounting for vets who have cancer that were in Vietnam right? Because of Agent orange.
it takes years yes, but the VA is not the military. They ar seperate.

You seem to be focusing on the VA, an organization that needs a lot of help, and not the military itself.

In the end, is national safety and security above those that are put in harms way to make such equipment?
It is called RnD for a reason. You test and if it fails, you try something new.....

But again, there are plenty of people who have bad experiences BECAUE THEY DIDNT LOOK for a way to make their lives in the military better. Because they had shitty people around them that didn't help them. When you work with people who have been in the military longer then you are, and have seen shit and have had horrible experiences, a lot of what keeps them in is because they find ways to push past the bad aspects.

Horrible officers andNCOs lead to people hating their lives in the military.

Zachowon said:

Because if something is secret you are literally told from the get go "This does not exist outside of here" type of thing. Because, if we admit to having such a thing in some regards, the enemy now knows.

You do know the VA is now accounting for vets who have cancer that were in Vietnam right? Because of Agent orange.
it takes years yes, but the VA is not the military. They ar seperate.

You seem to be focusing on the VA, an organization that needs a lot of help, and not the military itself.

In the end, is national safety and security above those that are put in harms way to make such equipment?
It is called RnD for a reason. You test and if it fails, you try something new.....

But again, there are plenty of people who have bad experiences BECAUE THEY DIDNT LOOK for a way to make their lives in the military better. Because they had shitty people around them that didn't help them. When you work with people who have been in the military longer then you are, and have seen shit and have had horrible experiences, a lot of what keeps them in is because they find ways to push past the bad aspects.

Horrible officers andNCOs lead to people hating their lives in the military.

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"Army Wives" and the culture of cheating (damn near prostitution rings sometimes) and such that happens on bases seems to have not gotten on your radar as something that could turn people off; do I need to tag Spartan to rehash his stories?

Also, as far as civies are concerned, the VA is part of the military, and separation is pure formality.

You really need to stop thinking civies do not have a pretty good idea what sort of shit goes on in the military.

Bacle said:

You really need to stop thinking civies do not have a pretty good idea what sort of shit goes on in the military.

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Especially since a lot of civies have friends, relatives, and or co-workers who were military and get to hear about shenanigans which aren't going make the news everyone gets access to.

You know that "dropped the grenade, threw the pin" story that seems like it's made up BS and used for a scene in the Pauley Shore movie "In The Army Now"?

I've heard several different versions of it from former service members (and one from a current at the time Sgt. Major) saying it's real because they've seen it. They can't all be lying.

That isnt what I am talking about.

With the differences everyone has, you generally hear stories about how bad things are form those who never had good experience and never tried to find more, or do more.

Are there ones that have? Sure, but a vast majority have horrible experience and leave because of those.

ANd someone telling you something isn't always the truth, because embellishing what one does is standard

Zachowon said:

That isnt what I am talking about.

With the differences everyone has, you generally hear stories about how bad things are form those who never had good experience and never tried to find more, or do more.

Are there ones that have? Sure, but a vast majority have horrible experience and leave because of those.

ANd someone telling you something isn't always the truth, because embellishing what one does is standard

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One of the vets I know was an orphan who was raised in foster homes, joined the military out of patriotism after 9/11, and then was promptly shown how hollow all his patriotism was via Bush's lies and wasted lives in Iraq when even the grunts could see how pointless it all was. His wife cheating on him with another guy he knew as soon as he deployed, he found out later, then he cheated back when he learned off it, and it lead to him losing his pension in a divorce (you never talk about how easy it is for spouces to take military benny's in a divorce) which eventually contributed to a general/medical discharge (also had some leg issues develop his mechanic work, has to walk with a cane at like 40).

The dude was a diesel mechanic on one of the Army's transport ships, and had nothing nice to say about the military once he got out, and he's even more mistrusting of the gov than I am, and has been for a long time.

And he is far from the only one who went in after 9/11, young teens full of more patriotism than sense amped on by the same national fervor that got the Dixie Chicks cancelled for daring to criticize the Iraq War.

You do not seem to want to address the issue that no matter how nice you try to make military life sound, you still run up against the fact that DC is not trustworthy and does not actually serve the American public, in the eyes of more and more.

No one will want to serve a gov they do not trust, and no benefits can change that.

Zachowon said:

That isnt what I am talking about.

With the differences everyone has, you generally hear stories about how bad things are form those who never had good experience and never tried to find more, or do more.

Are there ones that have? Sure, but a vast majority have horrible experience and leave because of those.

ANd someone telling you something isn't always the truth, because embellishing what one does is standard

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Bolded the relevant part.

My grandmothers' older brother and uncle were sent to Bolivia in 1942 because my great-grandfather - a WWI vet - wanted them to be very far away from WWII. Boy Scouts stole the iron fences his yard had during a scrap drive and got an "attaboy" instead of a stern talking to and that just reinforced the "never again" he had about the US military.

bintananth said:

Bolded the relevant part.

My grandmothers' older brother and uncle were sent to Bolivia in 1942 because my great-grandfather - a WWI vet - wanted them to be very far away from WWII. Boy Scouts stole the iron fences his yard had during a scrap drive and got an "attaboy" instead of a stern talking to and that just reinforced the "never again" he had about the US military.

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Something tells me the locals knew about him sending his sons to Bolivia and the fence thing was them punishing your great grandfather for it.

nemo1986 said:

Something tells me the locals knew about him sending his sons to Bolivia and the fence thing was them punishing your great grandfather for it.

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Racism was the reason because he and his wife were the grandchildren of a Samurai who was also a US Army Civil War vet and, in 1942, if they'd been near the Pacific coast instead of Chicago they'd wound up in an internment camp.

Bacle said:

Plus, 400 a month for food you get little choice over, besides just not picking it up, and small food stores on base is in no way any better than what civies deal with. Civies may spend more money, in average for food, but they also get better quality and the freedom of choice in what they purchase (unless they're on WIC or Food stamps, but that's a UBI issues, not a military vs civies thing).

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Zachowon said:

It isn't nickel and diming food. They take out about 400 for the DFAC basically. You go there, font pay anything and can only grab so much food.
They have places on base that is like a small food store for soldiers if they don't want DFAC.

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$400 is plenty enough for a large amount of decent food, or an acceptable amount of great food. So long as you aren't buying fifty dollar steaks or something you can do a lot more with $400 than the supply people seem to. Ben Franklin himself discovered that kind of thing when he just asked his own brother if he could have the money he'd normally spend on food for Ben, and he managed to save up a significant quantity of money by buying what he needed.

"Sigh"

You know, we could go back to the draft, that way rich and poor live and die next to each other.

But this nation has long since stop doing the obvious solutions because we let the rich buy their way out of the things that matter and then wonder why everything has turned to shit.

Ah well. I exited this train wreck of a system and will watch this wreck explode and do nothing to save any of the idiots who stayed on it.

Chiron said:

"Sigh"

You know, we could go back to the draft, that way rich and poor live and die next to each other.

But this nation has long since stop doing the obvious solutions because we let the rich buy their way out of the things that matter and then wonder why everything has turned to shit.

Ah well. I exited this train wreck of a system and will watch this wreck explode and do nothing to save any of the idiots who stayed on it.

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I mean, the only thing stopping rich people from enlisting are themselves

nemo1986 said:

Something tells me the locals knew about him sending his sons to Bolivia and the fence thing was them punishing your great grandfather for it.

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No, they were likely just being racist shit bags to a 'Jap' family, and got away with it, like what happened to many Japanese American families on the West Coast (I know he said it was in Chicago, but that sentiment was nation wide for a bit).

Sending his kids to Bolivia is a perfectly acceptable move if a person wants to keep them from being drafted by a gov he does not trust, due to his own service and experiences.

Chiron said:

"Sigh"

You know, we could go back to the draft, that way rich and poor live and die next to each other.

But this nation has long since stop doing the obvious solutions because we let the rich buy their way out of the things that matter and then wonder why everything has turned to shit.

Ah well. I exited this train wreck of a system and will watch this wreck explode and do nothing to save any of the idiots who stayed on it.

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The draft will never happen in the US again; not after how it was abused during Veitnam and how public sentiment turned heavily against forced military service.

American politicians know damn well what would happen any of them, if they seriously floated the idea of a draft; it's a masterful soundbite to use against them in a campaign at best, a career killer at worst.

Even in the event of WW3, a draft is unlikely to happen, as nukes would probably fly before a draft could move out of the committee stage.

Bacle said:

The draft will never happen in the US again; not after how it was abused during Veitnam and how public sentiment turned heavily against forced military service.

American politicians know damn well what would happen any of them, if they seriously floated the idea of a draft; it's a masterful soundbite to use against them in a campaign at best, a career killer at worst.

Even in the event of WW3, a draft is unlikely to happen, as nukes would probably fly before a draft could move out of the committee stage.

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Which proves my point, thank you very much. No draft, no functional republic. No functional republic, you have an oligarchic system and decline and collapse is inevitable.

Restore the draft, you restore the Republic. Don't it dies.

Its that obvious and simple. Either we do it or the smart ones among us exit the system and let it die.

Chiron said:

Which proves my point, thank you very much. No draft, no functional republic. No functional republic, you have an oligarchic system and decline and collapse is inevitable.

Restore the draft, you restore the Republic. Don't it dies.

Its that obvious and simple. Either we do it or the smart ones among us exit the system and let it die.

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That's a false dichotomy.

A Republic is created and maintianed via it's citizens trusting it's foundational documents and values, not via a draft and forced military service, and nothing about a draft will actually save us from oligarchs.

Something I heard recently, not sure how true it is. Apparently a recruiter told a friend of mine that the Air Force and Navy would provide a $50k signing bonus if you served six years, and you wouldn't have to complete basic training if you had a degree, you could jump straight to officer school.

If this is true then it probably means that their volunteers are drying because of all the politics. It'd also be monumentally stupid in terms of maintaining a functioning professional force.

Yinko said:

Something I heard recently, not sure how true it is. Apparently a recruiter told a friend of mine that the Air Force and Navy would provide a $50k signing bonus if you served six years, and you wouldn't have to complete basic training if you had a degree, you could jump straight to officer school.

If this is true then it probably means that their volunteers are drying because of all the politics. It'd also be monumentally stupid in terms of maintaining a functioning professional force.

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Which ? The money part or the functioning part ? Because as a non-US civvie both seems objectively stupid.