United States Discussion of Snowden, Assange and government secret keeping in general

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Zachowon

Zachowon

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Captain X said:
Yet they have done so and continue to do so.
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Again, there is context to everything.
You assume there is none.

Let's just say if you have an issue, request a FOIA, and see why.

I honestly don't know what else or how else to word it right now. If I figure out a better way to word what I am trying to say, I will say it
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

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Abhishekm said:
The can, they will, they do, they shall continue to. Nothing anyone can do about it that they are willing to. So accept it but dont accept when they tell you to be grateful about it.
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There isn't much I can offvthe top of my head argue besides it is nothing like that and yall know nothing.

But that just makes yall mad so
 
LindyAF

LindyAF

Well-known member
Zachowon said:
Again, there is context to everything.
You assume there is none.
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The impression I consistently get from you is that you've got no idea what "context" there might be either, except maybe in a vague generality that could mean pretty much anything. You were just told at some point that there was context, and you trust this because you are far too personally invested emotionally in the military and intelligence community. Or maybe you didn't even have to be told there was context, you just assumed there was for the same reason.

Like, let's go back to this

The Whispering Monk said:
@Zachowon are you able to define 'innocents' for us here?
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Zachowon said:
Those not in bed with foreign anything.
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That is not the definition of innocent no matter what definition of "in bed with" you use (and you're being ambiguous again about what you could mean here). Someone is innocent if they have not committed a crime.

One of the concerns with what was revealed with Snowden was that deep state spooks had taken to using any connection, no matter how minor, with any non-American as a pretext and excuse for surveillance. With that in mind, your definition here is suspect.
 
Hlaalu Agent

Hlaalu Agent

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Zachowon said:
There isn't much I can offvthe top of my head argue besides it is nothing like that and yall know nothing.

But that just makes yall mad so
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I am pretty sure we know plenty, we all tend to be above average intelligence or better and we have what you call critical reasoning, critical thinking and pattern recognition skills.

And yes, telling someone they know nothing when you can't prove it does make people angry. I mean it is almost as if we are living and breathing human beings and not Vulcans.

Zachowon said:
Again, there is context to everything.
You assume there is none.

Let's just say if you have an issue, request a FOIA, and see why.

I honestly don't know what else or how else to word it right now. If I figure out a better way to word what I am trying to say, I will say it
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What context at all would make them breaking their mandate and treating the American people as an enemy, at all okay?

Starting to think that you have become nose blind in a sense. You are so deep in the shit, you can't smell it anymore. I know you are a fundamentally decent person, but being part of the machine tends to warp your opinion on it.
 
Bacle

Bacle

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Glenn Greenwald retweeted this.



It's interesting to watch Trump's body language change in this video; he goes from relatively relaxed and at easy, to looking kinda defensive, when taking about why he didn't pardon Snowden or Assange and makes it seem like he was talked or pressured out of one or both of them.

Saying he'd 'let he courts sort it out' is farce, particularly when the only reason Assange is in hack is because he leaked embarrassing things about Clinto in 2016, and the Clinton's+deep state friends want revenge.
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

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Bacle said:
Glenn Greenwald retweeted this.



It's interesting to watch Trump's body language change in this video; he goes from relatively relaxed and at easy, to looking kinda defensive, when taking about why he didn't pardon Snowden or Assange and makes it seem like he was talked or pressured out of one or both of them.

Saying he'd 'let he courts sort it out' is farce, particularly when the only reason Assange is in hack is because he leaked embarrassing things about Clinto in 2016, and the Clinton's+deep state friends want revenge.
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If he pardoned Snowden I would not have voted for him in 2020. I wouldn't have voted at all.

S'task has gone on about why what Snowden did was bad, because of what he did to leave the US, giving away how we do things to China and Russia.
Now you wonder why we are behind in some ways. You can thank Snowden
 
Bacle

Bacle

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Zachowon said:
If he pardoned Snowden I would not have voted for him in 2020. I wouldn't have voted at all.

S'task has gone on about why what Snowden did was bad, because of what he did to leave the US, giving away how we do things to China and Russia.
Now you wonder why we are behind in some ways. You can thank Snowden
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I would recommend you watch United States of Secrets by PBS Frontline.

They showed what happened to the whistleblowers before Snowden, who tried to blow the whistle on Patriot Act abuses, and showed how what happened to them caused Snowden to take the steps he did to protect himself when he decided to blow the whistle on the NSA.

Snowden knew what happened to the people who tried to whistleblow before him, and how badly they were treated by the IC and fed courts.

And none of that justifies what has happened to Assange; that is pure revenge for embarrassing Hillary, nothing more or less.
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

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Bacle said:
I would recommend you watch United States of Secrets by PBS Frontline.

They showed what happened to the whistleblowers before Snowden, who tried to blow the whistle on Patriot Act abuses, and showed how what happened to them caused Snowden to take the steps he did to protect himself when he decided to blow the whistle on the NSA.

Snowden knew what happened to the people who tried to whistleblow before him, and how badly they were treated by the IC and fed courts.

And none of that justifies what has happened to Assange; that is pure revenge for embarrassing Hillary, nothing more or less.
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You do know I know more about the whole Snowden thing then anyone else here right?
He basically gave secrets to our biggest adversaries so he can get in and not be extradited.
I get it "He showed the populace something important!"
He was an idiot who thought what he saw was an issue and didn't actually look further into it. Leaked it, and to run he gave away how we did our job and made our enemies happy to make our lives harder.

But if course you only care that he did something fir the people, not that he helped our adversaries, and because of him life has been harder making sire China and Russia are not stepping out of line
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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Zachowon said:
You do know I know more about the whole Snowden thing then anyone else here right?
He basically gave secrets to our biggest adversaries so he can get in and not be extradited.
I get it "He showed the populace something important!"
He was an idiot who thought what he saw was an issue and didn't actually look further into it. Leaked it, and to run he gave away how we did our job and made our enemies happy to make our lives harder.

But if course you only care that he did something fir the people, not that he helped our adversaries, and because of him life has been harder making sire China and Russia are not stepping out of line
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Constitutional violations disguised as/use as part of a dragnet style sweep of American electronic comms are no laughing matter, you completely dodged the issue of what happened to whistleblowers before him, use an appeal to authority that is tired, and you are right, I care more about protecting the integrity of our Constitution than about propping up the military-industrial complex's desire for a unipolar world.
 
Captain X

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
He'll just keep defending those traitors because "muh authority" and "muh proper channels." Just completely ignore all the Constitutional violations there, @Zachowon, and keep telling yourself Snowden somehow harmed the US by exposing those violations. Maybe if you keep repeating that lie enough times it'll become the truth. Seems to work for the SJWs. ;)
 
Zachowon

Zachowon

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Bacle said:
Constitutional violations disguised as/use as part of a dragnet style sweep of American electronic comms are no laughing matter, you completely dodged the issue of what happened to whistleblowers before him, use an appeal to authority that is tired, and you are right, I care more about protecting the integrity of our Constitution than about propping up the military-industrial complex's desire for a unipolar world.
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Captain X said:
He'll just keep defending those traitors because "muh authority" and "muh proper channels." Just completely ignore all the Constitutional violations there, @Zachowon, and keep telling yourself Snowden somehow harmed the US by exposing those violations. Maybe if you keep repeating that lie enough times it'll become the truth. Seems to work for the SJWs. ;)
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I see all you focus on is what he exposed the US doing within the country.

NOT THE FACT THAT HE SOLD TO CHINA AND RUSSIA HOW THE US DOES ITS INTEL STUFF THUS MAKING IT HARDER FOR US TO PROPERLY DO OUR JOBS.

But what do you care, if Russia or China take over a country because he limited us in some way well to bad so sad good thong he revealed something that is taken out if context
 
Bacle

Bacle

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Zachowon said:
I see all you focus on is what he exposed the US doing within the country.

NOT THE FACT THAT HE SOLD TO CHINA AND RUSSIA HOW THE US DOES ITS INTEL STUFF THUS MAKING IT HARDER FOR US TO PROPERLY DO OUR JOBS.

But what do you care, if Russia or China take over a country because he limited us in some way well to bad so sad good thong he revealed something that is taken out if context
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The job of the US military is to protect our Constitution and US citizeney, not playing great power games abroad.

Also, based on those docs, Snowden didn't take things out of 'context', he just put the context of protecting the Constitution above the context of the the IC/MIC wanting to bypass the Constitution to make thier jobs easier.

Edit: You also seem to have forgotten about the FISA court abuses that were exposed under Trump. Snowden had also tried to warn the public about how easily abused the FISA court was as well.
 
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Zachowon

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Bacle said:
The job of the US military is to protect our Constitution and US citizeney, not playing great power games abroad.

Also, based on those docs, Snowden didn't take things out of 'context', he just put the context of protecting the Constitution above the context of the the IC/MIC wanting to bypass the Constitution to make thier jobs easier.

Edit: You also seem to have forgotten about the FISA court abuses that were exposed under Trump. Snowden had also tried to warn the public about how easily abused the FISA court was as well.
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And you seem to be ignoring tje biggest thing here.

He gave away how we do things to our adversaries and put us behind them.

But all you focus on are things he took our of context.

Nit that he sold state secrets for sanctuary. But I forgot you would rather have a multi polar world where China Russia and the US all are friendly happy go lucky and are willing to trade....
Not taking into account China wants the world and he made it easier
 
Bacle

Bacle

When the effort is no longer profitable...
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Zachowon said:
And you seem to be ignoring tje biggest thing here.

He gave away how we do things to our adversaries and put us behind them.

But all you focus on are things he took our of context.

Nit that he sold state secrets for sanctuary. But I forgot you would rather have a multi polar world where China Russia and the US all are friendly happy go lucky and are willing to trade....
Not taking into account China wants the world and he made it easier
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Here's the thing, most people do not believe he took things out of context, that is a line of cope/BS very few people buy anymore. Particularly given what happened to the whistleblowers before him.

A multipolar world was going to happen with or without what Snowden did. It's fucking inevitable and only fools in the Pentagon and DC, who's careers and pensions ride on trying to convince the US public that we must maintain a unipolar world, cannot accept it.

You remind me more and more of Col. Flagg from MASH everyday.
 
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