Pfft! Y'all are immigrants as far as I'm concerned.
I'm just glad my grandparents were able to escape the worst camping experience ever.
United States The United States and Immigration Policy
- Thread starter Big Steve
- Start date
I'm just glad my grandparents were able to escape the worst camping experience ever.
Let me guess, lot of Indian in you.Pfft! Y'all are immigrants as far as I'm concerned.
Some of us who have roots here that go back before the Revolutionary War get a bit miffed when people act like we are just 'immigrants' like other people.
The US should have legal immigration based on merit, and should allow no illegal immigrant to stay in our borders, anchor babies or not.
However, completely shutting down immigration is dumb as shit, and will never happen. It actually makes dealing with the problems of illegal immigration harder, if legal immigrants or those attempting to immigrate legally feel they will be treated and viewed the same as illegal immigrants.
Of course the fools pushing this also happen have a large overlap with white nationalists in terms of thinking and rhetoric, so really they should be ignored and treated as if wearing a permanent dunce cap.
I am mixed, yes. And unlike Elizabeth Warren, I need only look at my mother to know where my heritage comes from.
And mainly I only needle like that when white folks like to talk down about immigration, as some of the rhetoric comes off as rather ironic to me. I am very much with you on legal vs. illegal immigration, though, and my own views on immigration seem in line with what TR said about it as far as having the expectation that if you immigrate here, it should be with the intent of becoming an American.
Speaking of irony, though, I can never get over how these supposedly liberal people always seem to view Mexicans as a kind of servant class, and never seem to mind one wit about them being paid next to nothing for the work they do, while at the same time whining about a "living wage".
Democrats never stopped being the party of slavery, they just switched who they we're aiming to use as slaves and what rhetoric/laws/policies they use to make it work for them.I am mixed, yes. And unlike Elizabeth Warren, I need only look at my mother to know where my heritage comes from.
And mainly I only needle like that when white folks like to talk down about immigration, as some of the rhetoric comes off as rather ironic to me. I am very much with you on legal vs. illegal immigration, though, and my own views on immigration seem in line with what TR said about it as far as having the expectation that if you immigrate here, it should be with the intent of becoming an American.
Speaking of irony, though, I can never get over how these supposedly liberal people always seem to view Mexicans as a kind of servant class, and never seem to mind one wit about them being paid next to nothing for the work they do, while at the same time whining about a "living wage".
I am mixed, yes. And unlike Elizabeth Warren, I need only look at my mother to know where my heritage comes from.
And mainly I only needle like that when white folks like to talk down about immigration, as some of the rhetoric comes off as rather ironic to me. I am very much with you on legal vs. illegal immigration, though, and my own views on immigration seem in line with what TR said about it as far as having the expectation that if you immigrate here, it should be with the intent of becoming an American.
Speaking of irony, though, I can never get over how these supposedly liberal people always seem to view Mexicans as a kind of servant class, and never seem to mind one wit about them being paid next to nothing for the work they do, while at the same time whining about a "living wage".
I'm not surprised I remember how prissy they got after their slaves were freed.
Yeah but we built the country.Pfft! Y'all are immigrants as far as I'm concerned.
Merit based immigration takes jobs from Americans and they change the character of the nation and they vote how you don’t like. Why have more?
Where’s the overlap? What’s dumb about it? Why should it be ignored? I’m married to an immigrant who isn’t white and she thinks the same. She came here and would have done exactly the same as what I said, vote blue, if I didn’t spend literal years in a relationship talking and discussing things with her. I can’t marry every immigrant and inculcate them in American values, I can only marry one, and the way they vote shows it.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Done properly, tactical merit based immigration is a powerful weapon. You add irreplaceable people to your country, say, Oppenheimer, and simultaneously deny those other countries the benefits of Oppenheimer. Removing all immigration means [other country] still has an Oppenheimer and you don't.
An immigration moratorium doesn’t mean absolutely no one, but it’s close to it. Ie, you need to be like Elon Musk to immigrate. But there’s no reason to take anyone who isn’t going to be either a super unique skill set or someone highly wealthy. The vast majority of merit based immigration is bringing in people to depress wages and take away jobs from Americans who also vote against our interests. Note how an argument hasn’t even been made against this, just some feels bullshit “you all are immigrants too!” “This is white nationalist rhetoric!” It’s literally recycling leftwing talking points and values lol.
AnimalNoodles
Well-known member
Some of us are Pioneers, not Immigrants.
Im an Anglo-Canadian, we are Pioneers like our Anglo-American cousins. Our culture didnt come here through ellis island to live on the east side of New York and spend generations stewing in resentment. We fought the natives, fought the yanks, cleared the woods and built the cities and established the laws.
Canada is our dream, Us, the French and the Natives. We built it. We bled for it. We suffered for it. We made it real.
Everyone else just bought a fucking plane ticket.
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You talking to a direct decendant of Daniel Boone here; I know what it means to come from a pioneer family, one that pre-dates the Revolutionary War. The last 'immigrant' I can directly trace myself to was a Frenchman who spied on the Confederacy for the Union.
Pioneers should never be confused with simple 'immigrants', and it's a shame that modern politics has made pioneers out to be just more 'immigrants'.
By that standard, the people who crossed from Siberia into Alaska during the Ice Age were 'immigrants'.
*insert Obi-Wan's "from a certain point of view" here*There is a growing number of Natives who are somewhat dubious as to that theory of our people arriving here. And even with their racial motivations put aside (after all, it was white people who thought up that idea
), looking into that matter, there is plenty of conflicting information about it. In any case, we still get to loudly beat our chests and say "First!" so there. 
Are you serious?There is a growing number of Natives who are somewhat dubious as to that theory of our people arriving here. And even with their racial motivations put aside (after all, it was white people who thought up that idea
We have DNA evidence that shows the closest relatives to Native Americans are in Siberia and that area, along with mountains of evidence that multiple pulses of people came across the Beringa Land Bridge.
Unless some Natives think that their part of homo sapiens evolved in the Americas, instead of originating in Africa like everyone else.
Yeah, that'd be the conflicting information I was referring to. Mostly conflicting where it comes to time scale. In any case your argument doesn't really fly, because the same logic would just as easily apply to everywhere but Africa.
I don't personally subscribe to that, but, yes, actually. Though I don't think "evolved" is the term they would use.
...I really do not know how to respond to that.
Conflicting dates on when people crossed over from Siberia are because there was no single migration, but a series of successive waves until the land bridge was flooded, and after that small amounts of mixing in the Inuit tribes that crossed and recrossed the Bering Sea to/from Siberia to/from Alaska on occasion.
I mean, technically all humans are 'immigrants' from Africa in the sort of logic that mixes pioneers and immigrants, but...why is all of humanity of orginating in Africa a problem for some Native Americans?
It is mainly stemming from the idea that white people are trying to delegitimize Natives' claim to the Americas, so this isn't a problem with all of humanity originating in Africa so much as smug white people using the "you're just immigrants, too" line and things like certain ancient remains being said to more closely resemble white people than Natives.
The bit about 'certain remains seem 'white' is news to me; sounds like some WN bullshit masquerading as legit findings.
Unless they mean some of the disputed Viking/Indian settlements in Newfoundland; that's a mess I think is mostly because a lot of people have problems admitting 'race mixing' could have occurred during that time.
As for the 'you're just immigrants too' as trying to delegitimize Native claims to the America's...that's fucking dumb from both sides. The ancestors of Native Americans were pioneers of thier time, just like Polynesian sailors who settled the South Pacific, but they didn't evolve in the Americas anymore than humans 'evolved' in Australia or Japan or Greenland.
I forget the name they gave him, or I would look it up and link it, but from what I remember it involved a find from South America. And then, of course, there was Kennewick Man, whose discoverer initially claimed he had "caucasoid" features in his skull, and of course much butthurt over if he was actually an ancestor of any of the tribes currently occupying the area around where he was found. FWIW, I thought he deserved more study as a window into that ancient world, but Natives tend to be pretty sensitive about digging up the bones of their ancestors.
Ah, ok.
I vaguely remember the Kennewick Man issues from an anthro class I had, where they used it as an example of how NOT to do anthro work.
As for the one in South America, do you remember where?
Because they've found Roman shipwrecks off the coast of Brazil which likely ended up there because of storms off the West African coast (Morocco was a big Roman industrial area for clay urn/vessel making). It's not inconceivable some Romans or other Med people found thier way to S. America by accident, and stayed because they couldn't return home.
Same with the Zuni and how it seems they likely interbred with some Japanese Buddhist monks who somehow ended up in the Gulf of Cali centuries before Europeans got to the area.
Then there's the whole Polynesian/S. America issue where it seems the Polynesians might have had some presence on the west coast of S. America for a time.
Sorry, little bit of a tangent there regarding some of the lesser known situations where 'non Natives' made it to the America's and may have interbred with the locals before the Europeans got here.
Add in the discovery of paleolithic caches on the Eastern shores of Canada which showed identical tool technology to caches found in northwestern Europe, down to the use of oversized flint blades as apparent decorations or for ritual purposes on the top of the cache.
Well, that isn't all that surprising.
If the Vikings could get to Newfoundland, their paleolithic ancestors probably did on occasion as well.
I doubt it was often enough or in enough numbers to result in 'Caucasian' Natives of any real number from interbreeding, though.