Ye Are Gods (Sign-up and OOC)

[LordSunhawk]

My headcanon is that it is extremely hard to raise the Dancer's people as undead, simply because the Shadowed Dancer takes a very personal interest in their people.

 

[Grav]

The myconids can’t even be raised as undead because they’re mushrooms.

 

[Draco]

Depends on the nature of the death, stuff like violence or attachments and emotion are an important factor. That also determines the type of dead. Notably dying peacefully in your sleep genuinely makes it unlikely for a Restless Dead to arise, but it would ultimately depend on the person. It's a good idea to do mortuary rites on anyone, but the more peaceful the death the slower you can go about it.

I imagine doing some initial rites then a proper 'funeral' later on is a necessity in certain situations where a lot of Restless Dead may arise. IE a battlefield.

When you say mortuary rites, do you mean the rites of the specific culture, or those of the Mortuary Cults?

Any sort of death can lead to the rise of the Restless Dead, even one where no body remains. However in that case, they would probably be incorporeal. The most important factor in this world for Undead and Necromancy is ones force of will, their magnetism in relation to the greater world.

Meaning that the greater their force of will the more likely they are to pass on, or the more likely they are to remain? If it is the latter, is it an act of conscious will to stay like if they were murdered, or does having more willpower just make it more likely in all cases of death?

Restless Dead are produced by 'living things'. Usually this means a soul and a body, but anything along those lines can potentially become Restless Dead. If something develops enough to be called earnestly sentient, it can probably become Restless Dead.

So "ensouled" creatures, technically, not basic animals, gotcha.

Disposing of a corpse doesn't guarantee it won't arise as incorporeal Restless Dead. In fact, desecration of a body probably makes a ghost far more likely than normal. The best way to deal with it is to do some rites, then a proper funeral down the line. After they get a proper funeral, a burning is perfectly fine.

Same question as @Leepysheepy in regards to this, so that is now answered.

It's more difficult for Restless Dead to materialize as Ghosts because that takes a lot of attachment or sheer willpower or delusion required, but conditions can change the chances(burning someones body without rites, for example). It's much easier to become Restless Dead when there's a physical object in the world you still have attachment too laying around(Like your corpse).

There are interesting, more fringe variants of that. For example, someone hyper attached to an item in life may use that as a vessel to possess after their death, if they would become Restless Dead.

And here come the talking swords.

Only those that died recently before her Death, since most Dead(those not strongly aligned to a God, at least) had already probably long since fallen into the Underworld to mill about aimlessly. I don't imagine it was a huge wave or anything like that; just a weird occurrence that suddenly started happening here and there. Mortuary Cults sprang up naturally to tend to that problem.

That makes sense to me.

Also, as a related aside, I have recently been considering that Perzawlkhan's people have developed essentially consecration magic/undead turning, as an abstraction of the protection/shielding magic that comes naturally to them after the advent of the undead. Has anyone else expressed interest in having their culture specialize in that magic?

It would operate similarly as it does in D&D I imagine, where the more powerful the caster the more/stronger undead they can turn/rebuke/protect against. So non-sentient restless dead are relatively easy to turn, whereas some form of Lich would take a more powerful caster to rebuke. Potentially also having totems or other physical objects enchanted that serve as shields against undead intrusion at holy sites and at the boundaries of settlements or encampments.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

It is very possible that "eaten by animals" is a sacred funerary ritual in multiple cultures here, it is after all present in reality.

 

[Grav]

It is very possible that "eaten by animals" is a sacred funerary ritual in multiple cultures here, it is after all present in reality.

Get eaten by the myconids.

 

[⚕⚕⚕]

It's more difficult for Restless Dead to materialize as Ghosts because that takes a lot of attachment or sheer willpower or delusion required, but conditions can change the chances(burning someones body without rites, for example). It's much easier to become Restless Dead when there's a physical object in the world you still have attachment too laying around(Like your corpse).

So it would be possible, theoretically, for a sufficiently-obsessed researcher who died in his office to get up the next morning, sans physical body, and keep going about his work?

It is very possible that "eaten by animals" is a sacred funerary ritual in multiple cultures here, it is after all present in reality.

I'm considering having the funeral rites of the hardcore-traditionalist Khunjites involve tossing the corpse to the zeppelin whales for disposal.

 

[Leepysheepy]

Culture definitely has an impact so long as the Dead person genuinely believes in it, though you still want Rites. There are some things that are definitely desecration regardless of how a culture views it, but you can imagine that would be hyper vile stuff.

Well, I was asking because Kobold funerary rights are often things that other cultures may find objectionable, in their mind the most offensive thing you can do is simply let the body be "wasted" so they're offended by the idea of just burying or burning bodies. Instead they (after paying respects) make use of them, including practices like:

1: using the bodies as fertilizer for farms
2: using them as bait for monsters or prey
3: using the hide and bones to make clothing and tools
4: using the decaying body to make toxins
5: in the rare tribes that know basic necromancy, re-purposing as basic labor
6: occasionally outright cannibalism, but that's not common because (magic stuff I'm still writing up)

So Kobold practices, as I said, come across as exceptionally horrific to most cultures, yet ironically they'd be more offended if their friends and family put them in the world's most fancy tomb.

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

When you say mortuary rites, do you mean the rites of the specific culture, or those of the Mortuary Cults?

Same thing fundamentally. While Mortuary Cults are dedicated to Amenti, its not a top down relationship like other Gods and is more like people started honoring her and she just goes with it. They were something that sprang up while she was sleeping or totally inactive in the material world, after all.

So it would be possible, theoretically, for a sufficiently-obsessed researcher who died in his office to get up the next morning, sans physical body, and keep going about his work?

Absolutely. Sheer loyalty or dedication to your work can result in stuff like that. Necromancy isn't inherently evil in this universe either, but can easily fall into it by its nature. There'll be more on how Necromancy and the non-Restless dead work when my nation sheet goes up. Generally, 'natural undead'(Restless Dead) are much weaker compared to those properly created by Necromancers.

A lot of it has to do with optimization.

Meaning that the greater their force of will the more likely they are to pass on, or the more likely they are to remain? If it is the latter, is it an act of conscious will to stay like if they were murdered, or does having more willpower just make it more likely in all cases of death?

They both contribute. When both overlap, you get the real big boys.

Also, as a related aside, I have recently been considering that Perzawlkhan's people have developed essentially consecration magic/undead turning, as an abstraction of the protection/shielding magic that comes naturally to them after the advent of the undead. Has anyone else expressed interest in having their culture specialize in that magic?

It would operate similarly as it does in D&D I imagine, where the more powerful the caster the more/stronger undead they can turn/rebuke/protect against. So non-sentient restless dead are relatively easy to turn, whereas some form of Lich would take a more powerful caster to rebuke. Potentially also having totems or other physical objects enchanted that serve as shields against undead intrusion at holy sites and at the boundaries of settlements or encampments.

I believe that the Sun Elves that are still forthcoming from our Sunboy also have some Anti-Undead abilities with their 'truth' domain.

So long as everyone is doing their job, the Restless Dead shouldn't become an issue.

Desecrating, not observing rites for whatever reason, Necromancers, and stuff like a massacred city or huge battles are a few of the more obvious exceptions.

In times of War I imagine they can become quite the passive problem, but unless an exceptionally powerful intelligent Undead appears and starts to lead them- they're pretty easy to deal with just using basic tactics and some normal wooden walls.

Overall the Restless Dead are more of a threat during times of crisis, and in other times are just a part of life pretty easy to manage.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Same thing fundamentally. While Mortuary Cults are dedicated to Amenti, its not a top down relationship like other Gods and is more like people started honoring her and she just goes with it. They were something that sprang up while she was sleeping or totally inactive in the material world, after all.

Huh? The funerary traditions of the Men of the Mighty come down from their gods.

 

[Draco]

They both contribute. When both overlap, you get the real big boys.

I'm confused, that doesn't answer the question I asked.

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

Huh? The funerary traditions of the Men of the Mighty come down from their gods.

I'm sure they are, but I don't imagine their Gods were hanging around after the war.

I'm confused, that doesn't answer the question I asked.

A strong force of will(In the moment or in general) and attachments make it more likely that you could (possibly) become Undead. Having more of those checked off at once contributes greatly toward making you a Undead if you do raise.

 

[FriedCFour]

@khatun You still playing?

 

[Draco]

A strong force of will(In the moment or in general) and attachments make it more likely that you could (possibly) become Undead. Having more of those checked off at once contributes greatly toward making you a Undead if you do raise.

And do you mean for that to apply to all peoples or just the ones unclaimed by a god?

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

And do you mean for that to apply to all peoples or just the ones unclaimed by a god?

I clarified that previously, but it's anything that has the possibility to become Undead. Being someone strongly aligned to a God probably makes it far less likely you'll become Restless Dead at all. You have Super-Heaven to be escorted too, after all.

The Restless Dead are meant to be a sporadic occurrence justifying ghosts haunting a house, or some bandits left to the sun becoming zombies. Its background fluff and a way to introduce 'natural' undead enemies- aside from a crisis event where it can become more relevant if you don't take care to properly honor and give rites to the dead.

It's not really meant to be like, this ever present issue at the back of everyones minds or whatever. It's a symptom of the world becoming a bit scarred, but only adds fuel to an existing fire. It almost never starts fires on its own, and is pretty trivial to manage with some basic rites and decency(by your cultures standards)

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

I clarified that previously, but it's anything that has the possibility to become Undead. Being someone strongly aligned to a God probably makes it far less likely you'll become Restless Dead at all. You have Super-Heaven to be escorted too, after all.

The Restless Dead are meant to be a sporadic occurrence justifying ghosts haunting a house, or some bandits left to the sun becoming zombies. Its background fluff and a way to introduce 'natural' undead enemies- aside from a crisis event where it can become more relevant if you don't take care to properly honor and give rites to the dead.

It's not really meant to be like, this ever present issue at the back of everyones minds or whatever. It's a symptom of the world becoming a bit scarred, but only adds fuel to an existing fire. It almost never starts fires on its own, and is pretty trivial to manage with some basic rites and decency(by your cultures standards)

Well, I'd just like to add that people based quite a few traditions around avoiding undead in real life, where, to my knowledge, monsters rising from the grave are even less common.

I can see people on this planet making mountains out of relative molehills in that regard. You basically take any level of real world superstition and multiply it by ten if the subject of the superstition is real.

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

Not particularly when actual Monsters, Demons, Spellcasters, and Monstrous Beasts are far more of a threat, and way, way more commonly so. I don't really believe that's the case. I don't think the average person would worry about it much at all. Except when Dead things were actually rising- and usually that means something far far worse is going on to cause it like a War or one of the God backed invasions.

I'll just remove the fluff entirely so nobody has to worry with it, then.

 

[Draco]

Not particularly when actual Monsters, Demons, Spellcasters, and Monstrous Beasts are far more of a threat, and way, way more commonly so. I don't really believe that's the case. I don't think the average person would worry about it much at all.

I'll just remove the fluff entirely so nobody has to worry with it, then.

I hope you haven't taken my questioning to mean that I do not like the idea. I think that it can add a level of depth to the different cultures in the world to see how they do or do not handle concerns about their loved ones rising from the grave. I simply wanted to be clear on the specifics so that I didn't presume anything about the process when considering how the Fowl Folk cared for their dead. I apologize if it came off as critical of the concept.

 

[Reimu Hakurei]

Nah I didn't see you as critical at all, it just seems like a lot of complication when I should probably keep to myself more when it comes to fluff stuff.

 

[Draco]

Nah I didn't see you as critical at all, it just seems like a lot of complication when I should probably keep to myself more when it comes to fluff stuff.

I'm writing like, five different variations on these funeral processions based on who is where in Birdland, what birds are common in the region, proximity to the Collective, how they differ after the onset of undeath, etc.

The fluff is where I live.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Not particularly when actual Monsters, Demons, Spellcasters, and Monstrous Beasts are far more of a threat, and way, way more commonly so. I don't really believe that's the case. I don't think the average person would worry about it much at all. Except when Dead things were actually rising- and usually that means something far far worse is going on to cause it like a War or one of the God backed invasions.

I'll just remove the fluff entirely so nobody has to worry with it, then.

I mean people were still decapitating corpses and panicking over the ghosts of unburried men when there were like, wars and murders going on around them. Thats what every other irish fable is like.

I dont mind undead popping up, my background is in DnD, where undead just sort of spring into existence all the time.