China Wuhan Virus Pandemic
- Thread starter Arch Dornan
- Start date
When you apply logic to quite a few left wing talking points they fall apart pretty easily.
Hence cancel culture, and the use of political violence.
Mimas
Well-known member
That's a pretty concise graphic; it's pretty similar to what I've been explaining to some coworkers at work.
Basically, if the vaccine is safe and effective, and it's widely available, why is it such a big deal that we have unvaccinated people? The vaccinated people would be safe regardless of the vaccination status of other people, and so don't need other measures. Unvaccinated people have the option to get the vaccine, and if they don't are choosing to accept those consequences.
It then becomes a decision with health consequences like smoking or drinking. Adults are allowed to make decisions that bite them in the ass later, it's part of being an adult.
Basically, if the vaccine is safe and effective, and it's widely available, why is it such a big deal that we have unvaccinated people? The vaccinated people would be safe regardless of the vaccination status of other people, and so don't need other measures. Unvaccinated people have the option to get the vaccine, and if they don't are choosing to accept those consequences.
It then becomes a decision with health consequences like smoking or drinking. Adults are allowed to make decisions that bite them in the ass later, it's part of being an adult.
I've never understood that mentality about vaccines. Me not getting one does not mean yours somehow doesn't work. The entire point of getting one is so that you, personally, have resistance to whatever disease the vaccine is for. What does it matter if I don't get it other than to myself?
it is litterally a power thing.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
This is generally correct.
However, like most of the really dangerous lies, there is a grain of truth behind the 'people need to get vaccinated' thing.
Specifically, it's that vaccines for more serious diseases, the sort that killed people in job lots throughout the world up through the 1800's, and in the developing world in the 1900's, as well as some parts even now, those are a bit different than trying to vaccinate against flu-family viruses.
If 90% of your population is vaccinated against Measles, Polio, etc, it's not really a problem that 10% aren't. The small number of 'breakthrough' infections that happen aren't enough to start an epidemic.
If 50% is vaccinated, you have a more serious chance of a chain reaction of infections.
If 20% is vaccinated? Then you might have a public health crisis.
To be clear, even in this situation, the 20% who are vaccinated against those serious illnesses are about as safe as you can get, but the other 80% have a problem. This is why it's heavily recommended that if you're going to travel, especially to disease hot-spots like sub-saharan Africa, you get a bunch of appropriate vaccines. Because the vaccines protect you, even if the largely-unvaccinated local population isn't protected.
So, if almost nobody is getting vaccinated when it comes to serious life-threatening diseases, then you can have a problem.
But, of course, the left takes something, and then turns it on its head. They have made it so that if we don't get everybody vaccinated, then we're all in danger!
Hysteria+power mongering, with a side of sophistry, because yes, technically there are problems if almost nobody is getting vaccinated, so they can try to keep you from dismissing their 99% untrue position out of hand, because of the 1 grain of truth mixed in.
Of course, a quick search tells me that 54% of the US population is fully vaccinated, and 64% have had a first shot. Given someone having the first shot is pretty sure to have the second, 2/3rds is plenty, and when you count the fact that young children are both very unlikely to carry the disease, as well as get seriously ill from it, that 64% is probably functionally more like 80+%.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
1. Because protection does not mean perfect protection, but different techniques can stack.
2. See #1
3. Noncompliance
4. lol seriously?
5. It's not like this is the first time government has set up different rules for vaccine liability; see the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.
6. But they don't.
7. People who did that probably aren't.
8. Among other reasons, because people can't tell at a glance who's vaccinated and who isn't. And I thought he was against vaccine passports?
9. See #1
Your right to swing your fist stops where other people's faces begin.
But it does mean the hospitals continue to be over loaded and people who for actual health reasons can't get a vaccine are put in extreme danger.
That's the whole point of herd immunity.
Some people need to take more personal responsibility about where they put their faces.
Except that even during the alleged height of the plague, the hospitals were never over-loaded. A great example of this is the hospital ship that got sent to NYC in anticipation of the hospitals filling up barely got used, and ended up being sent away. As for the other part of that sentence, that is not the argument that is ever made, just as the hysteria about mask use is usually made from the idea that the mask would somehow protect the wearers from infection when at best all they could do is help keep an infected person from spreading it via droplets of saliva and the larger vapor from exhaling, and I really do just mean help, as it would not eliminate it. The other aspect of this is that the disease itself is not all that deadly, particularly to younger people. The people most at risk to this disease are the same people who would be most at risk to literally any respiratory infection of any kind. Also, that argument holds little merit considering the fact that in several states, the same government making that argument sent COVID patients to places housing exactly those kinds of people, with predictable results. In addition to this, there is the known fact that the tests quite often produced false positives, there were documented cases of the media intentionally making seem hospitals and test locations being far busier than they actually were, as well as COVID deaths being over-reported and just plain old misreported due to financial and political incentives to do so.
While the authorities have been trying to redefine what that term means like something out of 1984, the term in fact refers to when enough people have gotten sick and have anti-bodies to a disease, it becomes much harder for the disease to exist in that population, and even people who have not gotten infected are less likely to ever get it. A vaccine could theoretically help with that, but it is not what the term is referring to.
I suspect we are also looking at one of those scenarios where the actual medical experts are talking sense, but then the administrators, media, politicians, etc etc go and dumb it down into something completely stupid and nonsensical. Or just plain dishonest.
So for example, the actual researchers might say "We haven't yet been able to determine if HIV can be transmitted by mosquitoes".
And that gets turned into either "Science has proven that mosquitoes cannot transmit HIV!"
or
"They're saying that people could get HIV from insect bites! Panic!"
So for example, the actual researchers might say "We haven't yet been able to determine if HIV can be transmitted by mosquitoes".
And that gets turned into either "Science has proven that mosquitoes cannot transmit HIV!"
or
"They're saying that people could get HIV from insect bites! Panic!"
Sobek
Disgusting Scalie
Thank you for providing a perfect example of how the NPC reacts to the image.
Except we've seen even medical professionals purposefully mislead the public/misreport numbers to push the fear and justify power grabs for politicos.
I trust Joe Rogan, Tim Poole, Alex Jones, Candace Owens, and Rand Paul more than any part of the medical establishment.
I know all to well that docs can definitely put thier own paychecks/kickbacks above what is best for a patient, and that they will rarely be held accountable when they do.
The only people who put medical professionals on a pedestal are those who have never been on the wrong end of a misdiagnosis, had meds effectively forced on you against your will (and had to live with the damage done from that), or straightforward incompetence in even a simple procedure.
Medical professionals are not gods, saints, holy men, or prophets; the are fallible and can have thier own agendas besides the patients best interest.
Morphic Tide
Well-known member
Forty fucking pounds in a month. Because of the fourth medication with weight gain as a side effect.
Mimas
Well-known member
One thing I will forever be grateful to my stepmom for is that she was a very, very competent nurse, and she basically saved my Dad's life from this. He's got high blood pressure, and doctors were upping amount of medicine he was taking more and more. By the time they started dating, she was genuinely shocked by the dosage he was taking.
Apparently it was an an unsafe amount, and she persuaded him to instead cut as much sodium from his diet as he could.
Dad's blood pressure improved, and while he complains about not getting salty foods, he's also not taking nearly as much medication.
My grandfather was nearly killed by docs not communicating about his salt reduction meds, leading him to critically low sodium levels because my uncle kept him on a low salt diet on top of the salt reduction and dewatering meds.
No one should treat medical professionals as some sort of protected class or any sort of special population that is above reproach or criticism.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
See #4
Opinion: Let's have a serious discussion about COVID-19 and treatments
COVID-19 is serious. The discussions of it and treatments of the disease should be as well.
www.cincinnati.com
The first thing you said was just wrong, and the rest was a bunch of straw-man attempts.
No... Herd immunity has always refereed to the general resistance of a percentage of the population... You trying to redefine that, or politicians trying to redefine that, won't actually change it.
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Uh...
You do know hospitals operate at 90% normally anyway right?
Also, don't trust NPR, they have proven to be a biased source.
New York got sent a hospital ship, and they barley used it, when they said they needed more hospital beds.
Same with a city in Commifornia.
They said there wasn't enough ventilators, and most were never used that were made by Trumps admin....