masks make it harder to breath, and that can be physically painful.
China Wuhan Virus Pandemic
- Thread starter Arch Dornan
- Start date
masks make it harder to breath, and that can be physically painful.
VicSage
Carpenter, Cobbler, Chirugeon, Dataminer.
We could go with "This is an airborne virus too small to be filtered by a mask any less protective than a CBRN capable mask, the masks we use are meant for mucus borne viruses, bacteria, and fungal spores" as a good argument as to why. They are a fig leaf. So much so that I'm surprised I haven't heard of some enterprising company hasn't made fig leaf shaped masks to sell.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The reason the mask mandate was never appropriate, was because it was not effective, and has had quite a number of negative side-effects.
I, a self-educated layman, knew from the start that the masks were useless. I understand the basics of germ theory, and did some additional research a year and a half ago; the conclusion was pretty easy to reach. Covid-family viruses are too small for even high-rated masks like N95 to catch consistently, and disposables or cloth masks are completely worthless.
They're actually worse than that, because they become carriers of other diseases unless you're actually practicing proper discipline (which almost no one does) and either disposing of them after one use or washing them with sterilizers on a level with bleach.
To reiterate, I, even though I have no special medical training, could see and understand this. The actual medical professionals knew it far better than I did, and this has been proven by multiple studies run since the pandemic started. Except of course, for the massive political pressure around the whole thing, which has actively covered all of that up.
Similarly, six feet was basically a completely arbitrary distance for 'social distancing,' which anyone with a basic understanding of air currents and the like could tell you.
It was all nothing but the need to be seen 'doing something,' and has caused trillions of dollars, gotten hundreds to thousands killed, and possibly become the beginning of the end for the continued existence of free societies in our lifetime.
But most importantly of all, it's all a lie given the force of law. And when the truth is outlawed, that never ends well.
In a sane world, the principle that in an emergency scenario things which would normally not be done, need to be done, is a sound one. If a firefighter has to break down a door to rescue an unconscious person from a burning building, no one talks of him being prosecuted for breaking and entering.
But the problem is that in Clown World, everything is always an emergency! Part of this is of course their innate power-lust and control-freaking, but I suspect that underneath that there's an actual cognitive disability, a lack of sense of proportion and balance. To the extent that when we speak of such things they don't understand what we mean.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
Very well put. The key problem we're having right now is that bad-faith actors see emergency powers as nothing more or less than an avenue to permanent power.
DarthOne
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strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Well, here's a case study showing that masks are effective: Case-Control Study of Use of Personal Protective Measures and Risk for SARS-CoV 2 Infection, Thailand
And this article shows, among other things, that surgical masks are effective on coronaviruses (but not rhinoviruses): An evidence review of face masks against COVID-19
But really, I don't expect to convince you by batting studies back and forth. The argument I was trying to construct was more against what I've perceived that some are against the mandates categorically, in principle, instead of on grounds of practical objections.
You act like people cannot object to the vax and mask mandates for multiple reasons.
Lack of effectiveness at actually stopping transmission, the naked power grabs that the virus/vax has enabled, the visible and blatant double standards the elite and politicos have engaged in, the way the way the George Floyd 'protests' showed the political double standard the Left vs. Right will be held to, the increasing number of reported side-effects in the youth, etc, can all be legit reasons to not comply with the bullshit that is being pushed.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
What you're not getting is that you can attack an argument cited for a conclusion without having to attack the conclusion and every single argument in support of it. (Provided that you don't go on to claim that you've discredited said conclusion by means of discrediting said argument, of course.)
And yet teh fact is objecting to the vax at all, no matter what reason or how well supported the reasoning is, gets you tossed in with the likes of people who think the TDAP boosters cause autism.
So if you are going to be smeared that way no matter what your objection is, what do you have to lose by bringing forth any objection or possibility that might have merit in today's 'the difference between conspiracy theory and reality is 6 months' clown world.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
"If people are gonna accuse you of bad arguments anyway, why not go ahead and use bad arguments then?"
Uh, no. Just no. Because I care about using good arguments. Both in principle and because convincing people of a right conclusion based on bullshit is a very vulnerable (backlash-prone) foundation. If there are better reasons, use them; if there aren't...
Our entire reality right now is based on many, many lies and 'bad arguments' that are necessary for certain groups and individuals to maintain their hold on power.
If we are going to live in a world of lies and 'bad arguments' anyway, may as well learn to use them to our own benefit.
After all, the Obi-wan Corollary still holds true for any attempt to appeal to 'truth', and the corpo media already get away with lying to us and getting fucking paid for it by the political masters.
Only by laughing at, humiliating, and doing anything we can to help kick the metaphorical 'house build on lies' out from under the corrupt powers that have put us in this position, will we ever be a position to truly regain the freedoms that have been stolen from us in the name of the Wu Flu and the BS around it.
Learning to ignore, laugh at, and mock the virus and vax mandate bullshit any time people try to use it to impose restrictions, laws, mandates, or general BS is the only way we will be ever be free of it.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
I am not actually a policymaker and I generally assume that people I see bullshitting on forums are not either. In the end what you propose sounds less like reasoned argumentation in pursuit of truth and more like an almost pointless competition to see who is better at weaponizing brain-bugs to convince the other of an unsound yet convincing argument.
1. I am wholly uninterested in that.
2. That sounds terrifying—like playing russian roulette with our capacity for rational thought. See point 1.
I'm fine with moderate helpings of mockery, and I'm not the type of pedant to insist that my comedy be 100% true. But I do want to be able to differentiate jokes from seriousness, so I have little patience for anything that smacks of "it's serious if I get away with it, but I'm just kidding if I don't."
So, to the extent that mockery can convince people that a position is bad, that is the sort of "unsound argument" I can live with, but as an exception to a general aversion to using unsound arguments.
I used to feel the same way you do, and I wanted to believe the world worked that way for a very long time.
I'm not that naive anymore; we live in a post-factual world, and 'truth' is now damn near impossible to sus out from the many lies so much of our modern politics and society is operating under currently.
All we can do is cross-check between different semi-legit seeming sources, see what lines up and what doesn't, and try to fix errors when they are found due to further reporting.
It's not about 'serious if I get away with it, joke if I don't'; thinking of it that way will just confuse you.
It's about how many unverified lies the MSM and effectively Overstate controlled media get to push anything and everything they want, sources be damned most of the time (though I'm guessing now that a lot of WH 'leaks' under Trump came from Pence's office), while people demand perfect accuracy, 100% of the time from anyone who says anything counter to the Overstate narrative being pushed by the MSM, WH, and their backers.
It's about utilizing their own tools and tactics to bring the monster of the elites/Dems/DC's own creation down around their ears, without needing to fire a shot.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
Ultimately I don't think lies do defeat truth (on average, or in the long term) in a head-to-head battle. The problem is that lies are easier to manufacture so truth gets overwhelmed. And bullshit is even easier to spam because it doesn't have to be as carefully constructed as lies do.
You are part of the problem.
You are part of the problem.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
"Why are you pissing in the pool?"
"The pool is already like half piss."
"OK. Why are you pissing in the pool?"
"The pool is already like half piss."
"OK. Why are you pissing in the pool?"
It's not about 'lies', 'bullshit', or 'truth'; those are too far simplistic a terms for what we are dealing with now.
It's about what people are seeing, what they are experiencing, what data is being suppressed or denied, what the narratives are that are being spun about any particular thing the elite are either trying to push or suppress, and the why behind their actions.
The establishment has completely destroyed public trust in a lot of previously trusted institutions with the Wu Flu and stolen election. Now, everyone is stuck in a situation where what is 'truth' and what is 'fact' may not be the same thing if certain interest groups are able to control media narratives around things.
Trying to be accurate is still commendable, and there is no shame in admitting something turned out to be wrong later on or that there was missing context.
But pretending that this is an issue where both sides are equal, where officials can lie to and mislead the public without consequence, and get away with, while a slight technicality error or misreport by someone on the right gets them dogpiled.
All while our society is being forced to alter our laws and lives to conform to lies like the virus/vax mandates, tranny shit, and tons of other lies that get pushed as truth because certain groups make money that way. Like, how many times has the FDA had to recall meds because it turned out a company lied or their quality control went to shit.
When are being fed lies about so many things every day, when the powers that be can transparently lie to us on an ongoing basis and get away with it, and a little error about which specific part of the occupation some dogs we abandoned belonged to gets you dogpiled...
As I've said, we live in a clown world.
strunkenwhite
Well-known member
The decision to clown around is still up to you.
I do what I do because we have been lied to by officials so many times regarding this virus/vax situation; the mask slipped when George Floyd died, but too many people still trust the 'official' sources of the 'proper' narrative the elites/powers in DC want.
Maybe I get something wrong sometimes, maybe info comes out that shed new light on something, and maybe sometimes sources get it wrong too. I will own that if I fuck up, and most people here would too.
The mass media, political establishment, and Beltway elites will never admit to being wrong or mislead, unless forced to by SCOTUS court cases, and even that would be iffy and hard to pull off.