"Woke" Franchises

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
So here is an example of the newest woke movie flopping hard.

Charlie's Angels best known for being about a team of three sexy super spys has met feminism and truned into a multimillion dollar flop.

You know, I think the entertainment industry maybe targeting pre-existing female led series or franchises

Look at Tomb Raider, may not have played Tomb Raider before, but I think they were trying to go “realistic” and closer to average for Lara Croft’s new look....pants....your booty shorts and leotards and undies need to go otherwise some creator’s daughter can’t cosplay as your character
 

Lanmandragon

Well-known member
what I don't get is why the director is bitching about it being mens fault.

Were not her audiance or target demographic, its an action movie for women and thats perfectly fine. If its failing then it could be because it was released at a bad time, or had bad marketing, or because maybe the movies not that great. We don't have an obligation to watch a movie that isn't targeted to us.

As for Terminator dark fate, the francise still hasn't recovered from the disaster that was part 3 and honestly they should have stopped at 2.
Because she's a feminist no other reason is needed. Hate groups are like that.
 

Argent

Well-known member
You know, I think the entertainment industry maybe targeting pre-existing female led series or franchises

Look at Tomb Raider, may not have played Tomb Raider before, but I think they were trying to go “realistic” and closer to average for Lara Croft’s new look....pants....your booty shorts and leotards and undies need to go otherwise some creator’s daughter can’t cosplay as your character

I actually thought the new Tomb Raider was well done including the movie.

Yes unlike the original they toned down the gaint boobs to something more realistic. But unlike other like Ghostbuster or America comic they did not need to put in any "I am women here me roar" scenes. They showed Lara doing cool things and killing bad guys instead of telling us how she rocks and is better then the men that came before.

It also treated male supporting memeber of the cast well. Unlike Ghostbuster 2016 which made every male a dumb moron. Instead you have Roth. He manages to be a mentor figure and dies in a way befitting any mentor figure in fiction, saving his protege.

The later sequel while not as strong as the frist rebooted game is still a solid game that managed to keep Tomb Raider feeling like Tomb Raider.

While I do think that the movie had some problems with plot changes it overall was one of the better video game movies I have seen. Compared to Warcraft or Doom it is an Oscar worthy film and I rate as a fun popcorn action flick.

But even the movie managed to show Lara growing into her role of Tomb Raider and had a fairly strong Male supporting memeber in Lu Ren. Granted he didn't have a major role but it is a Tomb Raider movie. All the past ones game or movies mainly focus on Lara with everyone else in a secondary role at best so that is not really a hit against the new games or movie.

Now some people have made comments about the smaller boobs or down playing Lara sex symbol status. Granted at frist a lot of the size was just graphics but it did become part of Lara's look it later games.

The early movies with even had Angelina Jolie wearing a padded bar for her films. That along with the loss of the short shorts are the two big physical changes between the older Tomb Raider and new ones look. The new games did managed to keep Lara's base charater while showing feminine traits even if not at the sex object level of the past.

But overall the producers even had to tone down the boobs for the original Tomb Raider movies. I also personally think that Alicia Vikander did a good job as Lara Croft. But I think she is a better actress then Joile and it is a shame she has not hit A list status like Joile while doing simalr roles.

So while the new Lara lost the short shorts and gaint boobs they keep feminine look. She has a tank top that still shows off some skin, long hair and traded the short shorts for tight pants. Unlike the new Batwomen which goes with every butch lesbian stereotype and Captain Marvel which down plays any looks the new Tomb Raider does still have a focus on making Lara look hot just not the same way as the older games did.
 
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CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Not going to lie - every time I see someone whine about large breasts and/or women being sex objects, I roll my eyes.

“Where are her fucking organs!?”
“Inside her body”


images


I’d ask the same for this dude

images


Not this dude
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Saw a video on that which noted that they all tend to say the same shit in their "criticisms." Really highlights why the NPC moniker fits them so well.

Personally, if I was to even bother giving them a response, it'd probably be along the lines of "she doesn't have any organs - she's a drawing." But I'd probably just put all these screeching NPCs on mute and not actually respond in any way.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Saw a video on that which noted that they all tend to say the same shit in their "criticisms." Really highlights why the NPC moniker fits them so well.

Personally, if I was to even bother giving them a response, it'd probably be along the lines of "she doesn't have any organs - she's a drawing." But I'd probably just put all these screeching NPCs on mute and not actually respond in any way.

Say, any chance you still remember the “Hawkeye Initiative”? The thing used to criticize lots of artists for all the sexy poses and outfits, female characters had, by having the manly Hawkeye of the time do and wear them?

I think I recall hearing a theory about how that may have been a partial gateway for the new SJWs and SJW sorts to get both into the industry and into the fandom

Because let’s face it, nerds are self-depreciating and want the approval of the mainstream and to see their hobby be thought of as an “art”
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
I don't remember that by name, but I remember seeing lots of memes based on it, like the male Marvel characters being posed in the same way the female characters usually were. The NPCs really love repeating the talking points of others, like Anita Sarkesian, so I've seen a few different variations of that. The thing all of them seem to miss is that the men were already being posed in a way that made them look sexually appealing by highlighting their muscular physiques (not to mention what a wide stance can be suggestive of ;) ) and overall masculinity. To them it was just that they found the way the women were posed to be sexist because it highlights their boobs and their butts, because the people who are sexually attracted to women tend to like those parts, after all, and they also tend to be hypocrites when it comes to men being objectified or just utterly blind to it. So while they were laughing because posing men like women looked silly and thought they were making some point, I was laughing at how what they were doing could be taken as homophobia, because those men were simply being posed in a way that might be considered attractive to gay men who liked bottoms. :LOL:
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
The thing all of them seem to miss is that the men were already being posed in a way that made them look sexually appealing by highlighting their muscular physiques (not to mention what a wide stance can be suggestive of ;) ) and overall masculinity.

I think I’ve seen that excused away as them showing STRENGTH, whereas to them, the female fanservice is just them being sex objects and being too physically soft and small

They either can’t or won’t admit that physically men and women are different and men and women like seeing different things when it comes to the others’ bodies
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
Like I said, they either scoff at the idea of men being objectified in the same way women are (if you look at being seen as sexually attractive as objectification anyway) or are just blind to it. A good number of these feminists who complained about The Fappening and the invasion of privacy it represented had exactly zero problems drooling over nudes of Orlando Bloom and Justin Beiber that paparazzi took of them, after all. Every once in a while I'll come across one who has a "Sokoth, his eyes opened" moment, but that is far and few between. To be entirely fair, the pose they're screeching about is actually pretty silly because of how contortionist it is, but I just see it for the marketing it is and perhaps something silly I can have a laugh at rather than as something that's "problematic." But really what it comes down to is that these NPCs want all art to be really boring so as to be inoffensive to them.
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
Yeah, I get that sense from them, too. Nothing will ever be enough, because really it's that they just like having something to rail against. Like they actually get off on being offended or something. Some really weird infantile version of the "unending revolution" I guess.

And that is why, this “revolution” will fail, because it essentially is going to go backwards due to the lack of any real clear or nice goals or plans on dealing with say.....Sharia Law and really regressive values from the guys who like to ruin a girls genitals
 

CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
This is why I like calling them the regressive left, no matter how much they might protest (and sometimes because they do). ;) They really have taken us backwards as far as race relations and equality of the sexes.

Gonna take awhile for the superhero comicbook industry to get back to loving T&A a lot more

That said, I think heard once that the MCU and DCEU and other live action stuff actually got people to read the comics......they prefer the older ones to the ones currently being published now
 

Argent

Well-known member
...you should look up a Youtuber by the name of Liana K. She has interesting things to say about "big boobs=sex object"

actually, you know what, here, have a link where she talks directly about it, in relation to the rebooted Tomb Raider even.




So I finally got chance to watch the video. I do have to say it was a nice change of pace form most Youtubers.

I do feel that Laina is right about the new Lara still being an idealized version even if more "realstic". Lara of the old games became a sex symbol from out of game coverage just as much from her looks in game. The new Lara while still sexy is more understated. Also the new game was launch durning the height of the teen gril in post apocalyptic setting saves the day. Just look Hunger Games, Rebellion, Maze Runner or Allegiant. You can see that new Lara looks could fit her into any of those movies. So I think that in general what the public expects has changed from the 1990's and the new Lara is a reflection of that.

I do agree that even with the old Lara being a sex symbol that she also defies stereotypes and was a strong character. I may not have played all the old games but I did enjoy the ones I did play.

As to new Lara's looks. That is more of a personal preference but I prefer the new Lara to the old one.

I do think that Liana was to hard on the new plot line. Most games have expanded casts and try to add more story to their games. This has been an on going change for the better as gamers have started demanding more since the days of Doom and Pac Man. Lara also gets help from women like Joslin. The fact that the old games are a mis match of lore shows the difference compared to a world dominated by expanded universes and different expectations.

I also feel that she cheapens the death of Roth. I do not think him needing to save Lara discredits her any more then Luke being saved by Obi Wan discredits him. It may be a standard theme of mentor saves protege and dies but it happens with both men and women.

I also feel that Laina dismissed the fact that the new Tomb Raider is an origin story a bit to quick. What we see in the new games is Lara before life real hits her. Before she lost friends and the nomadic life strained her connections. In the old game Lara is an experienced Tomb Raider that has many missions before we even met her. In the new version we see a Lara that has yet to find her way to in the world or discovered a passion for exporlation. For all we now a Lara in her late 20's may become much more like the Lara of old the version we see.

On the side I also do not dislike the game play being "easier". Frist the game gets a lot harder if you want to change the settings. But some times I just want to sit back play a mildly challenging game instead of a frustration filled death match. I game to have fun and relax so having engaging characters and some fun things to do on screen are what I am looking for. If I want to spend hours upon hours trying to get past a puzzle I still have Mist sitting around somewhere in a box.

But personally I do not think being a sex symbol or even an idealized character is bad. A good charater is more then their looks and in games the gameplay can make the best charater a dud in seconds. The new Tomb Raider game to me showed a character that had a strong background, was relatable with decent game play and plotlines. The fact that the new Lara is more to my preference in looks to the old is nice but not the end all be all for me.


I do think that I may check out some more of her videos since I liked this one.
 
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CarlManvers2019

Writers Blocked Douchebag
@Argent
Okay, man it’s sorta weird how sorta diverse the opinion is on new changes things get are, from both here and on KotakuInAction....guys there are Anti-SJW but also agree or like some new things so long as they’re drawn well or written well for that series

Hell, talked to guys who actually even fully played Dragon Age Inquisition regardless of being Anti-SJW and could talk a lot about its lore

Kinda weird but Solas sorta talks like he actually read some of Ayn Rand or Robert A. Heinlein’s talking points on freedom

Which is why he can talk to Iron Bull and tell him how and why the Qun is inhumane
 

Argent

Well-known member
@Argent
Okay, man it’s sorta weird how sorta diverse the opinion is on new changes things get are, from both here and on KotakuInAction....guys there are Anti-SJW but also agree or like some new things so long as they’re drawn well or written well for that series

Hell, talked to guys who actually even fully played Dragon Age Inquisition regardless of being Anti-SJW and could talk a lot about its lore

Kinda weird but Solas sorta talks like he actually read some of Ayn Rand or Robert A. Heinlein’s talking points on freedom

Which is why he can talk to Iron Bull and tell him how and why the Qun is inhumane


It takes an open mind to enjoy fiction that promotes or disagrees with your world veiw. It also helps if you can separate real life form fiction and take in entire works instead of just one part.

It is something that conservatives deal with more the liberals. Most of the Mass media from T.V. to Music is left leaning. This bleeds into their works like Quantico making the bad guys thing veiled Trump supporters. Even Marvel jumped on the bandwagon by having Hydra spout Trump lines. You also get shows like Amercian Gods with has to insert it poltical veiws on immigration and other current issues.

You either tune it out or enjoy very little entertainment. I have a level that I can ignore so I like shows like Amercian Gods unneeded sex scenes and all. But others like Designated Survivor are just to much and it ruins the show for me.
 
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