Why Men and Women Should Stop Hooking Up.

One thing to keep in mind - perhaps more so in regards to hooking up and relationships than the institution of marriage - is how pair bonding works on a neurological level.

Pair bonding is a (fairly) well-understood phenomenon in terms of human neurology. Primarily through sexual intercourse (but also through other actions, such as affectionate physical touching) both male and female brains release certain chemicals - primarily dopamine and vasopressin in the case of men, and dopamine and oxytocin in the case of women.

Dopamine is the "reward" or "feel-good" chemical. It's what makes people enjoy sex so much, and is the cause of the "afterglow" effect many people report after successful intercourse. In people with a penchant for hormonal addiction (e.g., compulsive gamblers, sex addicts) it can lead to addiction. Simple enough.

Vasopressin and oxytocin, meanwhile, are the primary chemicals that create the "pair bonding" effect - what you might call long-term love and affection, and a desire to stay with a particular partner. However, they do so in rather different ways, which means the whole pair bonding phenomenon works out differently for men and women.

The basic function is the same - vasopressin and oxytocin both bond with certain receptors in the brain which, when stimulated, create the pair bonding effect. However, oxytocin creates a "strong" bond, whereas vasopressin creates a "weak" bond. The receptors are the same, however, so the "maximum" pair bonding remains the same between sexes - it is simply getting to the point of maximum pair bonding that works out differently. Long story short, men require more acts of sexual intercourse with a particular partner in order to begin, and "max out", pair bonding when compared to women.

So what does this all mean? Well, when taken in conjunction with empirical research done on people's pair bonding ability over time and with multiple partners, some interesting facts come to light. First, I'll start with the stuff that's the same for both men and women.

The pair bonding receptors are not unlimited in either number or function. In other words, humans are neurologically limited in terms of overall pair bonding ability. That is, how many times they are able to pair bond, and how strong those bonds are, though the exact limits vary from individual to individual. Researchers have studied this and come up with the following numbers (again, there being some variation between individuals):

At somewhere around 3-5 pair bondings, the pair bonding ability starts to noticeably degrade. That is, each subsequent pair bonding is weaker than the one previous.

At somewhere around 10-12 pair bondings, the pair bonding ability becomes unnoticeable to the point of being virtually non-existent. At this stage, pair bondings are effectively no longer possible, though previous pair bondings remain, if somewhat weakened with time when lacking regular sexual intercourse with the bonded partner.

(Regular sexual intercourse with a bonded partner keeps the bond strong and keeps it from degrading.)

Now, here's where it gets different for men and women:

Because female brains release oxytocin, and male brains release vasopressin, men and women form pair bondings at different rates.

For women: 1-2 acts of sexual intercourse with one partner is normally enough to begin pair bonding.

For men: Anywhere between 2 and 5 acts of sexual intercourse with one partner are required to begin pair bonding.

So what does this difference mean in practice? Well, in simple terms, it means that men's pair bonding ability is less detrimentally affected by hooking up with many different partners when compared to women's, as long as the men only hook up once, or perhaps twice, with the same partner. For women, however, more often than not a single act of sexual intercourse is enough to begin pair bonding. This, in turn, means that women will reach the "limit" of their pair bonding ability much more quickly than men when they both engage in hook-up culture.

In short, modern hook-up culture is far more detrimental, on a neurological and emotional level, for women than it is for men. By the time the typical woman has moved on from casual flings and decides she wants to settle down and have a family, more often than not she has long-since lost the ability to pair bond, making any long-term relationship one of emotional and sexual dissatisfaction, which in turn leads to infidelity and/or the ending of the relationship.

This phenomenon goes a long way to explaining why there are so many single mothers these days, doesn't it? Of course, the state effectively enabling it via social welfare programs and forced child support doesn't exactly help.

Now, in theory - given how other neural receptors have been shown to work - it should be possible for prolonged abstinence from sexual intercourse to (very slowly) restore the pair bonding ability. However, to the best of my knowledge, no empirical studies have been carried out on the subject, given both a general lack of parties interested in funding it and researchers' difficulty in finding enough people who've had 10+ pair bondings and were also willing to spend years without engaging in sexual intercourse (feel free to direct me to such studies if you know of any).

Really makes you think, doesn't it?
Exactly. But one cannot fix this cause liberalism and equality doctrine prevents it.

So hence why I have said that either we find an alternative to our inbuilt systems via artificial wombs and companion bots or hope for civilizational collapse to end liberalism and equality to fix this.
 
Exactly. But one cannot fix this cause liberalism and equality doctrine prevents it.

So hence why I have said that either we find an alternative to our inbuilt systems via artificial wombs and companion bots or hope for civilizational collapse to end liberalism and equality to fix this.
Do you really think you'll get much satisfaction from a walking computer?
 
Do you really think you'll get much satisfaction from a walking computer?

Compared to a modern feminist, probably yes. Though, I get why you mean there is more to life and love than what can be provided by a robot. It is sad that society is so broken that this actually looks to be a viable alternative.
 
Do you really think you'll get much satisfaction from a walking computer?
There is a joke about this:
onyekachi-its-roi-can-sex-doll-cook-your-meals-can-sex-50100632.png
 
There are, but not enough to go around. Some men are going to lose out, and should have an alternative to being lonely or forced to cohabitate with a harridan.
And there are some women who think also not enough good men to go around because of their bad experiences in a previous relationships and/or their family dynamics at home.

I made this thread to encourage men and women to stop hooking up and save themselves for marriage so they won't run into complicated feelings and complicated relationships in the future. I think that's a good start.
 
And there are some women who think also not enough good men to go around because of their bad experiences in a previous relationships and/or their family dynamics at home.

I made this thread to encourage men and women to stop hooking up and save themselves for marriage so they won't run into complicated feelings and complicated relationships in the future. I think that's a good start.

Of course. But I am thinking in pure mathematical and logistical terms.

And it is a good start. Make sure that people can have stable relationships...or stabler relationships so that they might end up happier overall.
 
Yeah, we get it Sane, we get it. You're the master of circular arguments. Or, not actually adressing arguments. But you're good at both.
Try learning what a circle is.

Yes, it is, because I can do something about the former, but might not be able to do something about the latter. Wars might happen, catastrophes might. These are things I cannot change. A shitty relationship is something I can change. I can work on it, and barring success there, I can end it.
Only being willing to do something painful if you have absolutely no physical choice is pure cowardice.

Because I don't unquestioningly sign away the rest of my life to a relationship?
More or less.

Not in a marriage, no. That's no foundation for me to spend the rest of a monogamous life with someone.
This is the thought process of a child. You don't need to have sex to be happy, and Marriage is not about fulfilling your appetites.

In that very extreme scenario you so kindly constructed to give your point at least some depth, yes.
"Cuckoldry is okay as long as it would be like, painful not to cuck"

We've reached peak degeneracy logic.

The usual solution to that problem "since time began" was to get a mistress.
Not everyone is a degenerate Culsu, but I'm sure it's comforting to think so.

Being forthright in my expectations and demands is moral cowardice? Interesting.
This is you trying to imply that someone cannot be forward about something that reveals them to be a coward. Completely ridiculous.

See, and that's the crux of this whole argument: it's about something that people can affect. You constantly conjuring scenarios that fall outside this is, at best, amusing, but basically just clogs up the thread with pointless bullshit.
What I find amusing is the fact that you'd abandon someone to endless misery after they'd staked the rest of their life on you and provided you with years of care because they physically couldn't effect your genitalia in quite the right way anymore.
 
Of course. But I am thinking in pure mathematical and logistical terms.

And it is a good start. Make sure that people can have stable relationships...or stabler relationships so that they might end up happier overall.
Do you think there are more bad women than men?
 
Exactly. But one cannot fix this cause liberalism and equality doctrine prevents it.

So hence why I have said that either we find an alternative to our inbuilt systems via artificial wombs and companion bots or hope for civilizational collapse to end liberalism and equality to fix this.
"Theres no hope in reversing this change because the enemy wont allow it"
"Theres hope of other, much bigger and more difficult things happening that the enemy wont allow"
 
I can definitely see the disconnect there. Does seem to be a bit of a koan, doesn't it?
I merely mentioned possible alternatives. I never said that they are practical now did I?

If you have the answer Hlaalu Agent, then please enlighten us plebs and implement it now. But I suspect you don't have a solution cause if you did, you wouldn't be here.
 
I merely mentioned possible alternatives. I never said that they are practical now did I?
But they're less possible than the solutions you deem to be impossible.

Completely coincidentally they're also the ones that require no input of hard work from you.



If you have the answer Hlaalu Agent, then please enlighten us plebs and implement it now. But I suspect you don't have a solution cause if you did, you wouldn't be here.
Why would him having solutions to problems allow him to implement them? Why would him having solutions to problems prevent him from posting on a Venezuelan espresso tasting forum?
 
Try learning what a circle is.
Life is about more than fun.
Sometimes you have to live with things that cause stress. Having your arm torn off causes stress and makes life difficult too.
Life is about more than having fun.
My, if that doesn't look like a circle.
Only being willing to do something painful if you have absolutely no physical choice is pure cowardice.
And doing something painful if there's no need for it is pure idiocy.
More or less.
Well, if you're unquestioningly signing away your life to something you're an idiot. *shrugs*
This is the thought process of a child.
Not having basic emotional needs fulfilled for possibly decades is the thought process of a child? Interesting. Guess I'm a child then, according the the wisdom of Shipmaster Sane.
You don't need to have sex to be happy, and Marriage is not about fulfilling your appetites.
You are the last person in this equation to know or even demand what I need to be happy, especially after I've already told you loud and clear that the opposite of your statement is the case. Sexual compability and respecting the needs and desires of both parties are integral parts of a successful and content marriage for both partners. That's about as much a fact as the sun rising in the east. Don't like it? Don't care.
"Cuckoldry is okay as long as it would be like, painful not to cuck"
We've reached peak degeneracy logic.
Create shitty scenarios, get shitty solutions. If you think I'd just get stuck in a dead bedroom marriage for "the kids and the mortage" (if I had the former) you're mistaken.
Not everyone is a degenerate Culsu, but I'm sure it's comforting to think so.
Plenty of degenerates, though, by your weird definition.
This is you trying to imply that someone cannot be forward about something that reveals them to be a coward. Completely ridiculous.
How? How is it moral cowardice? Both sides entered into the arrangement fully aware of what the other expected and wanted out of it, agreeing to that. One side is no longer capable of meeting these terms, for what convoluted reasons you've cooked up ever, and is also not willing to look into or agree to different avenues.
What I find amusing is the fact that you'd abandon someone to endless misery after they'd staked the rest of their life on you and provided you with years of care because they physically couldn't effect your genitalia in quite the right way anymore.
Ah, so now we're already at "physically couldn't effect your genitalia". So she'd be comatose or a paraplegic, which means I'd have different problems to take care of than my dick. In that 1:100.000 scenario you so thankfully constructed. Doesn't really change the general gist of the argument though. You can, naturally, continue to escalate to even more statistically unlikely scenarios. Though how that adds to the argument of the thread eludes me. I get it, by your weird and rigid view on matters I'm a "degenerate". Fine. Now I'm marked for life. Oh god, just what will I do now?! 😆 :rolleyes:

Anyway, I don't see the point in arguing this any further. You have your position and I've got mine. Let's leave it at that.
 
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Of course. I am not denying that. People have also free will and can think in spite of what the pop culture, mainstream medias, celebrities, social medias are saying and/or endorsing. I am encouraging people to save themselves for marriage and to stop hooking up. Members and lurkers can read this and you'll never know, it might change their mind if they are planning to hook up and give in. So I don't think it is for nothing.

Groaning about how unfair or bad things are is easy, but you're never going to build up anything without a positive end in mind. Otherwise, you're just am aimless nihilist.
Sure you could this. But being frank, I suspect most of the lurkers here are adults and thus the ship has already sailed for them one way or another or people from SB or SV aka left leaning people and for them that ship is already gone. You would need a bigger platform like tiktok or youtube.

And it's not clear if what you do changes anything cause wider culture is left leaning with people seemingly accepting drag queen story hour or the other absurdities. Hell, there is this youtube video that whose title states 12 year old girl dreams to be pornstar on pornhub.


That is not true. There are a lot of men and women who fight against abortion nowadays. Like I said, it takes two to tango so, it's not only the job of the woman. Feminism should be rejected by both men and women.
Oh there are men who oppose feminism. They are just labelled evil by practically everyone and likely the women you mention.
 

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