Why get married

[King Arts]

You realize you're just as subject to being "corrupted" by the culture, right?

Yup I think Matt wake said something like that.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

God gives authority to rulers because they have power. Look at history and the background of what Paul was saying. He was talking about obeying Caesar and those Caesar appointed. Who is Caesar then? The direct answer at the time Romans was written was Nero, Emperor Nero inherited power from Cladius, who got it from Caligula, who got it from Tiberius, who got it from Augustus the first emperor. He legitimized himself by claiming descent from Caesar. The same Caesar who launched a coup betrayed and overthrew the Republic which was the legitimate government of the time.

How do we interpret this? Is Paul saying the descendants of Caesar are the only ones who have legitimacy? No is he saying only monarchies have legitimacy and not Republics? Also no, he is saying for Christians to not rebel to obey WHOEVER IS THE GOVERNMENT. The government is defined by who is in power, so a Roman who converted to Christianity couldn't rebel against Caesar to "restore the Republic".

We can point to America also the founding father's rebelled against the King the king who was the government at the time. Any Christian who was part of the revolution was in grave sin. Yet the rebels won and became the new government can a group of Christian form an army to overthrow the U.S. republic to "restore the monarchy"? No that would be a sin. This however does not mean that the current U.S. government has eternal legitimacy from God, yes Christians rebelling now would be in grave sin. But if a General decided to rebel against the Government get rid of the constitution and decide to make himself emperor if he won then he would be the government and Christians must obey him and not those who are for the constitution. The only question is when does a rebel no longer become a rebel but a government? And when do loyalists no longer become the government but are bandits and rebels themselves. That is the question a Christian could debate.

Could debate? We have debated it I recall...Here!

 

[A'lan mandragon]

On further consideration, you have a point and I probably overstated the authority of government. The government doesn't define marriage, and government isn't necessary for marriage. However, as long as you are living under the law of the land, you have a moral obligation to follow it (unless it directly conflicts with higher moral values and commands from God.). If your government does regulate marriage by law, it's important to follow those laws. You personally thinking those laws are unfair and biased is not justification for you to reject and ignore them.



This is kind of going off the assumption that if you get married, you're going to get divorced eventually and will have to deal with the biases in divorce law and family court as a result. That's not a given. Divorce is avoidable, and the key to avoiding divorce is finding a woman who holds herself to a transcendent moral standard and fundamentally does not believe divorce is an option.

Now, if you can't find a woman like that, no one's demanding that you get married to a subpar woman. It can take time to find the an available woman who meets that standard, who is also attracted to you. It may also require change and self -improvement on your part in order to be attractive to such a woman. And not just material, financial and physical self-improvement, but also emotional and spiritual self-improvement.

If you're not up for making those sorts of changes, again, no one is demanding that you get married. But the reality is that at that point you're "going your own way" because of personal shortcomings in yourself that you're unwilling to change, not because of problems with all women and the society around you.

My parents divorced after it was revealed that my dad had a long history of infidelity while he was married to my mom. I don't see that as a valid reason for me personally to avoid marriage.



And this is going off the assumption that marriage is about "practicality" in the first place. It's not.

Everything is inherently about practicality "is this good for society or not" is literally all that matters. The idea of practicality not being the highest good is modernist bullshit.

 

[Stargazer]

Everything is inherently about practicality "is this good for society or not" is literally all that matters. The idea of practicality not being the highest good is modernist bullshit.

Uh, are you the same person? And no, that is literally not all that matters. Ever heard of the greatest commandment?

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

This is kind of going off the assumption that if you get married, you're going to get divorced eventually and will have to deal with the biases in divorce law and family court as a result. That's not a given. Divorce is avoidable, and the key to avoiding divorce is finding a woman who holds herself to a transcendent moral standard and fundamentally does not believe divorce is an option.

Now, if you can't find a woman like that, no one's demanding that you get married to a subpar woman. It can take time to find the an available woman who meets that standard, who is also attracted to you. It may also require change and self -improvement on your part in order to be attractive to such a woman. And not just material, financial and physical self-improvement, but also emotional and spiritual self-improvement.

If you're not up for making those sorts of changes, again, no one is demanding that you get married. But the reality is that at that point you're "going your own way" because of personal shortcomings in yourself that you're unwilling to change, not because of problems with all women and the society around you.

My parents divorced after it was revealed that my dad had a long history of infidelity while he was married to my mom. I don't see that as a valid reason for me personally to avoid marriage.

Finding a woman with such morals and adherent to traditional values these days is extremely difficult, given that a large chunk of modern women would rather marry a tall guy who's making six to seven figures. It's also understandable, given the increasingly difficult our economic situation is around the world, with basically our means of survival becoming more expensive financially.

Even if I did try to change, there's always a point where I'd just go back to the old habits in a heartbeat. Change is extremely difficult for certain people like me. I'd probably come across questions of when I'll get married from relatives, which could be really annoying at times. I have a better chance of offing myself than actually going through such difficult and painful change though.

 

[Stargazer]

Finding a woman with such morals and adherent to traditional values these days is extremely difficult, given that a large chunk of modern women would rather marry a tall guy who's making six to seven figures. It's also understandable, given the increasingly difficult our economic situation is around the world, with basically our means of survival becoming more expensive financially.

Even if I did try to change, there's always a point where I'd just go back to the old habits in a heartbeat. Change is extremely difficult for certain people like me. I'd probably come across questions of when I'll get married from relatives, which could be really annoying at times. I have a better chance of offing myself than actually going through such difficult and painful change though.

It is difficult to find such a woman, as anything that is worth searching for is difficult to find. I wouldn't call it extremely difficult, as long as you're looking in the right places. It's just that the other side of the equation is being the kind of person who is attractive to such a woman, once you find her. That may be the truly difficult part.

I wasn't specific about what you may need to change though. What do you have in mind as the things that would be so difficult for you to change?

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

To put it bluntly, in current year in Western nations, there is no point to marriage. It's all risk, no reward.

You could attempt to justify the benefits of sticking your dick in a blender, but anyone sane would shake their heads.

 

[colorles]

To put it bluntly, in current year in Western nations, there is no point to marriage. It's all risk, no reward.

You could attempt to justify the benefits of sticking your dick in a blender, but anyone sane would shake their heads.

at this point you can't even bring a female into your home - that can be used against you in court. in the past i've either gone to her(s) place, or just public places, driving around in the car, etc. and have since just made the choice that being celibate is the best option and have been so for many years now. at the end of the day casual sex is a drug addiction born out of a mix of social expectations - young men are supposed to be out and about with girls and all - and then just entrapping men and women in that lifestyle like any other drug addiction. but it all leads to depravity and self sabotage in the end

the way i look at it, nature never intended for casual sex to be a thing. it was supposed to be relatively hard to come by for males due to male on male competition, and any sexual relations a man had with a female was intended to be for the purpose of producing children, and perhaps pair bonding with the female to ensure both parents could actually raise the children(s). but in 2023, having kids with a girl - which every man should want to have kids by the way, it's the most important thing in life - means a guaranteed risk of losing a sizable chunk of the assets you have worked for as a man should the girl so chose on a whim and probably your own home...because of a cucked legal system that allows and promotes society wide cuckery

so yeah, for many men with financial stability who live a stable and quality life, having kids with a girl (or, just to make it clear, even just having casual sex with a girl that lives with you do to live in girlfriend laws) means putting all that financial stability and quality of life at risk because she can legally fuck it all up and is actually incentivized to do so. none of that should be the case, because raising children and supporting them is not that expensive if you are financially stable even in 2023. but in 2023, men can't just focus on being financially stable and raising a family like in older times; in 2023, men have to worry about whether his assets and wealth, and minds of his children, will be stolen from him if/when his live in girlfriend - not even wife, mind you - gets "bored" at any point in time and decides to fuck everything up

but casual sex? partying? clubbing? drugs? all depraved and a waste of time that society encourages because...of course a hedonistic society encourages it.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

the way i look at it, nature never intended for casual sex to be a thing.

For like 99.9% of creatures it's totally intended, but at some point in our development we traded it in for monogamy because it incentivizes positive social behaviors and teamwork. Literal 'reject monke' evolutionary leap.

Why build that bigass structure that benefits the village if you know you aren't getting a kid out of it, or a wife, or a house?
But all of a sudden if doing good things gets you everything you want and more, shockingly you want to do it.

 

[colorles]

For like 99.9% of creatures it's totally intended, but at some point in our development we traded it in for monogamy because it incentivizes positive social behaviors and teamwork. Literal 'reject monke' evolutionary leap.

Why build that bigass structure that benefits the village if you know you aren't getting a kid out of it, or a wife, or a house?
But all of a sudden if doing good things gets you everything you want and more, shockingly you want to do it.

let's just stick to male dominant mammals here. in most mammal species, the males compete - that is, fight- for access to females, and the dominant male of any given area breeds with a harem of females. the male still has to fight off oncoming challenging males mind you. and even the females - who will almost all have access to the dominant male - have to quarrel with one another for order to the dominant male, that is who gets to breed with him first

this is not "casual sex". this is sex for the sole purpose of producing offspring. only the dominant males get to have sex, and even they are only having sex during a roughly few weeks or months tops a year. the rest of the year they have no access to sex at all and just survive, feed, and get all jacked up and ready to fight for access to sex the next year.

that is not "casual sex". as a human being equivalent: that is going eleven months of the year without any sex (or masturbation) and just eating good good and training/working out the whole year, and going into the rut at the end of all that jacked up on testosterone ready to fight...and then still only the top dominant male - or at most top few dominant males - in any given area would have access to roughly a month of a ton of sex with harems of females.

like 99 or more something percent of the other males, would still go home empty and probably beaten and with injuries and have to wait another eleven months to even have the opportunity to try again...

that is not "casual sex". that is brutal male on male competition for mating rights

 

[Stargazer]

To put it bluntly, in current year in Western nations, there is no point to marriage. It's all risk, no reward.

You could attempt to justify the benefits of sticking your dick in a blender, but anyone sane would shake their heads.

To put it back to you just as bluntly, it is insane to compare marriage to "sticking your dick in a blender". If that's your perspective, it indicates a bitter outlook on the opposite sex, your fellow humans, and life in general. It's a sad existence.

at this point you can't even bring a female into your home - that can be used against you in court. in the past i've either gone to her(s) place, or just public places, driving around in the car, etc. and have since just made the choice that being celibate is the best option and have been so for many years now. at the end of the day casual sex is a drug addiction born out of a mix of social expectations - young men are supposed to be out and about with girls and all - and then just entrapping men and women in that lifestyle like any other drug addiction. but it all leads to depravity and self sabotage in the end

the way i look at it, nature never intended for casual sex to be a thing. it was supposed to be relatively hard to come by for males due to male on male competition, and any sexual relations a man had with a female was intended to be for the purpose of producing children, and perhaps pair bonding with the female to ensure both parents could actually raise the children(s). but in 2023, having kids with a girl - which every man should want to have kids by the way, it's the most important thing in life - means a guaranteed risk of losing a sizable chunk of the assets you have worked for as a man should the girl so chose on a whim and probably your own home...because of a cucked legal system that allows and promotes society wide cuckery

so yeah, for many men with financial stability who live a stable and quality life, having kids with a girl (or, just to make it clear, even just having casual sex with a girl that lives with you do to live in girlfriend laws) means putting all that financial stability and quality of life at risk because she can legally fuck it all up and is actually incentivized to do so. none of that should be the case, because raising children and supporting them is not that expensive if you are financially stable even in 2023. but in 2023, men can't just focus on being financially stable and raising a family like in older times; in 2023, men have to worry about whether his assets and wealth, and minds of his children, will be stolen from him if/when his live in girlfriend - not even wife, mind you - gets "bored" at any point in time and decides to fuck everything up

but casual sex? partying? clubbing? drugs? all depraved and a waste of time that society encourages because...of course a hedonistic society encourages it.

I don't agree with the perspective you're coming at it with, but I can at least appreciate that you put casual sex in the category of "depraved" behaviors that are to be avoided. If you're going to avoid a long term relationship like marriage for whatever reason, that's your prerogative, but casual sexual relationships are not a valid alternative.

 

[TheRomanSlayer]

It is difficult to find such a woman, as anything that is worth searching for is difficult to find. I wouldn't call it extremely difficult, as long as you're looking in the right places. It's just that the other side of the equation is being the kind of person who is attractive to such a woman, once you find her. That may be the truly difficult part.

I wasn't specific about what you may need to change though. What do you have in mind as the things that would be so difficult for you to change?

Material, financial, physical, emotional, and spiritual self-improvements are extremely difficult for me to achieve. I tried to learn how to become an insurance agent, only to end up quitting when it became apparent that there is a huge chance that I would fail one examination multiple times and I would have to spend a lot of money trying to get multiple chances to pass the exams. Thus, the financial aspect of self-improvement already ended in failure. I'm still living with my family and am unable to get a place for myself, due to the insane rent prices in the city that I live in, so that's the material aspect of self-improvement already impossible to achieve. Getting into the habit of exercising is extremely difficult for me, since it's the kind of habit that dies easily, so that's the physical aspect that's gone down the drain. The emotional aspect of self-improvement is basically a no-go, given that I'm born with a mental condition that causes me to hate myself, and spiritual self-improvement is non-existent. Plus suffering from depression caused my so many failures in life that often creates suicidal thoughts is pretty much a given.

Practically, all of them. Like I said, I have a much bigger chance of dying at an early age than actually completing the self-improvement, and that's without the therapy sessions and the inevitable pill popping in the first place, which is already happening.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

To put it back to you just as bluntly, it is insane to compare marriage to "sticking your dick in a blender". If that's your perspective, it indicates a bitter outlook on the opposite sex, your fellow humans, and life in general. It's a sad existence.

Yes, and? I have a bitter outlook on venomous snakes too, that doesn't mean anything.
If you're offended by my pattern recognition, tell women to stop acting like vapid soulless automatons.

 

[DarthOne]

Nothing will change without a return to tradition.

Which means removing women from the workforce so they can be the ones raising kids instead of the 3-letter agencies and Hollywood.

It means getting rid of all the ‘girl gets the exciting bad boy’ stories women watch growing up. Along with the ‘you’re all princesses and deserve the best’ nonsense they also get growing up. As it breeds narcissists and gives women the idea that romance and relationships equals excitement all the time.

It also means reforming divorce laws to being less insane.

 

[Stargazer]

Yes, and? I have a bitter outlook on venomous snakes too, that doesn't mean anything.
If you're offended by my pattern recognition, tell women to stop acting like vapid soulless automatons.

This isn't about "pattern recognition". Bitterness isn't rational. Your mindset is not rational. And the "so" is that such a bitter mindset lends itself to justifying abusive behavior. When you see people as "vapid soulless automatons", why not treat them as such? It will lead to a lifestyle that is as immoral as it is lonely and miserable. Do you really want that? Do you love your bitterness that much?

Material, financial, physical, emotional, and spiritual self-improvements are extremely difficult for me to achieve. I tried to learn how to become an insurance agent, only to end up quitting when it became apparent that there is a huge chance that I would fail one examination multiple times and I would have to spend a lot of money trying to get multiple chances to pass the exams. Thus, the financial aspect of self-improvement already ended in failure. I'm still living with my family and am unable to get a place for myself, due to the insane rent prices in the city that I live in, so that's the material aspect of self-improvement already impossible to achieve. Getting into the habit of exercising is extremely difficult for me, since it's the kind of habit that dies easily, so that's the physical aspect that's gone down the drain. The emotional aspect of self-improvement is basically a no-go, given that I'm born with a mental condition that causes me to hate myself, and spiritual self-improvement is non-existent. Plus suffering from depression caused my so many failures in life that often creates suicidal thoughts is pretty much a given.

Practically, all of them. Like I said, I have a much bigger chance of dying at an early age than actually completing the self-improvement, and that's without the therapy sessions and the inevitable pill popping in the first place, which is already happening.

I'm sorry you have to deal with all of that. Struggles with motivation, depression, and suicidal thoughts are very real and can seem impossible to overcome. I would just say that the chance to make a change never ends. It's my hope and prayer for you that you will be able to break out of these patterns and make an improvement, leading to you having emotionally and spiritually fulfilling relationships.

I would suggest looking into the spiritual side first if you haven't already. The other areas are ultimately meaningless if you don't have spiritual life. Find a good Bible-believing church nearby. Start listening to some of their sermons. You can probably find them online, even if you don't go in person. It's all free, and what do you have to lose? Get a Bible (ESV would be my recommendation) and start reading a little. I would suggest starting with the Gospel of John, or with Psalms 22 and 23.

Nothing will change without a return to tradition.

Which means removing women from the workforce so they can be the ones raising kids instead of the 3-letter agencies and Hollywood.

It means getting rid of all the ‘girl gets the exciting bad boy’ stories women watch growing up. Along with the ‘you’re all princesses and deserve the best’ nonsense they also get growing up. As it breeds narcissists and gives women the idea that romance and relationships equals excitement all the time.

It also means reforming divorce laws to being less insane.

Well we can talk about what should be changed to improve society, and we may or may not agree on all those things. My point is that even as things are now, it is still good to be married, and finding a good partner to make that lifelong covenant and commitment with is something worth aspiring to.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

This isn't about "pattern recognition". Bitterness isn't rational. Your mindset is not rational. And the "so" is that such a bitter mindset lends itself to justifying abusive behavior. When you see people as "vapid soulless automatons", why not treat them as such? It will lead to a lifestyle that is as immoral as it is lonely and miserable. Do you really want that? Do you love your bitterness that much?

Your attempts at shaming doesn't work on me. It's a feminine and weak strategy that only works on people you believe it to work on.
I'm perfectly okay with being lonely and miserable provided the fact I am correct, if the world has gone mad, you don't join in on the madness.
Is there great women out there who AREN'T vapid soulless automatons? Sure and good for them! But you'll have an easier and more enjoyable time finding a subatomic needle in an ocean sized haystack.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Nothing will change without a return to tradition.

Which means removing women from the workforce so they can be the ones raising kids instead of the 3-letter agencies and Hollywood.

It means getting rid of all the ‘girl gets the exciting bad boy’ stories women watch growing up. Along with the ‘you’re all princesses and deserve the best’ nonsense they also get growing up. As it breeds narcissists and gives women the idea that romance and relationships equals excitement all the time.

It also means reforming divorce laws to being less insane.

I mean you could argue that works both ways though on top of just how far you want to go back to tradition? For me Get rid of the concept of the dream job and beat In our boys that they are only leaving this world with a plow, a sword, or a hammer. Get rid of this anime and comic book nonsense as that teaches boys that not only can they get a fertility goddess avatar for a wife simply by "winning their hearts" they deserve it. While we're at it let's cut the hippie Jewish stuff called Christianity and thier message about loving your wife and neighbor as yourself as that makes men soft and weak and opened to being taken advantage of by their lessers

Ok I hope for the love of all things good my sarcasm is clear especially with that last statement.

The point being, everything is a two way street on top of that you can always go farther and farther down the rabbit hole. "So tell me where the problem started? Well you see in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...."


Honestly the biggest issue I'm seeing across the political spectrum board is the white collar job being the ultimate status symbol. Make blue collar work great again and a lot of other junk would sort itself out. People need to start sweating again.

 

[Stargazer]

Your attempts at shaming doesn't work on me. It's a feminine and weak strategy that only works on people you believe it to work on.
I'm perfectly okay with being lonely and miserable provided the fact I am correct, if the world has gone mad, you don't join in on the madness.
Is there great women out there who AREN'T vapid soulless automatons? Sure and good for them! But you'll have an easier and more enjoyable time finding a subatomic needle in an ocean sized haystack.

I'm not trying to shame you. You asked "and?", and I answered your question. You aren't correct, and you're holding on to your bitterness for irrational reasons. And my point is that holding on to your bitterness will have spiritual and emotional consequences. But it doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to be bitter and lonely and miserable.

And I can just say in my experience, finding good women is not that hard.

 

[ThatZenoGuy]

I'm not trying to shame you. You asked "and?", and I answered your question. You aren't correct, and you're holding on to your bitterness for irrational reasons. And my point is that holding on to your bitterness will have spiritual and emotional consequences. But it doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to be bitter and lonely and miserable.

And I can just say in my experience, finding good women is not that hard.

What you might be interested in, and what "I" am interested in might be different. Find me a woman who gives a shit about Maybach 230 engines.

 

[Stargazer]

What you might be interested in, and what "I" am interested in might be different. Find me a woman who gives a shit about Maybach 230 engines.

I didn't say anything about what you or I are interested in, specifically. I said it's not been hard in my experience to find good women, generally speaking.