White Eagle, Revolutionary Eagle?

And now for the the Austrian border ... I imagine the first clash to be in Cieszyn. The border runs through the middle of the town.
Anybody have an idea where the barracks of the tri-lingual 100th KuK (i.e. common army) infantry regiment were?

Helpfully almost the entire border runs along the main ridge of the Carpathians. Still, there are road and RR (seven? eight?) crossings.

BTW - the story of towns bisected by the ISOT - top of mind - Zgorzelec/Goerlitz, Frankfurt n/Oder, Kustrin/Kostrzyń - will be fascinating!
 
And people are fans of living in places without electricity grid, running water, terrible insulation and lack of semi-modern medical care coverage (until many hospitals & clinics are created, and this takes TIME, years and years)?
First of all, as Buba and ATP noticed, there are still a lot of people in Poland who live without these conveniences. I can only add that even among those who already live with conveniences, there are quite a few who still know how to get around without them.

Another important thing is that we have our beloved Gierek who was probably crazy about the idea of building everything. For him this is an opportunity to build even more.
@Batrix2070 ,you mentioned Wędrowycz in first chapter.He was degenerate,but also kind of supenatural specialists,who manage to kill vampires,werewolwes,and even zombie Lenin.
Do you plan to add those supernatural creatures here,too?
I rather did it as a joke, but maybe it will come to my mind to "colorize" ISOT world a bit.
mean, it's not like Kresy is exactly free real estate. I would even say that villages are greatly overpopulated.
Well, nihil novi for our government. Gierek was building apartments for the baby boomers on a massive scale, he might as well just build those apartment blocks there as part of settling and binding those areas.
Another important thing, Kresy is least important as a people or property but a connection and resource. First and foremost the oil resources in Galicia/Eastern Malopolska and the territorial connection with Romania to get access to their oil resources.
Another one is, of course, you know, buying the voice of the Polish people that look we are seriously working for the good of Poland and unite Poles! We restore her rightful lands to the motherland!
Another thing, there are a whole lot of people who would love to go back to the old garbage and not sit on a German thing. Their children are different, but adults and the elderly may have a greater desire to return home.
And now for the the Austrian border ... I imagine the first clash to be in Cieszyn
Yup, after Terespol the next start will be in Cieszyn. I've been there recently and if I remember correctly it was the old barracks... on the Polish side. Oops?
BTW - the story of towns bisected by the ISOT - top of mind - Zgorzelec/Goerlitz, Frankfurt n/Oder, Kustrin/Kostrzyń - will be fascinating!
Unfortunately, I don't have much of an idea for it, and want to go further with the story, so I'll skip it and rather mention what happened there in a brief mention as part of the situation report. But if any of you have an idea of how it might have looked then I allow you to write it.
 
I wonder how people in their 70s would react to their teenage versions living in the Kresy xd Certainly they would need separate paperwork and legal personality.
 
I wonder how people in their 70s would react to their teenage versions living in the Kresy xd Certainly they would need separate paperwork and legal personality.
Mam, plan. Duży plan. I chyba Wędrowycz mi się do tego przyda. Hihihihi;) Thanks!
 
I read up on the 100th KuK InfReg a bit.
No idea where the barracks in Cieszyn were, but of its four battalions:
- 2 in Kraków
- 1 Banja Luka (Bośnia)
- 1 in Cieszyn
The Regiment can be rebuilt, though, as at least one complete Battalion exists and half of the recruitment district remains.

I wonder how people in their 70s would react to their teenage versions living in the Kresy xd Certainly they would need separate paperwork and legal personality.
This is always an issue with time traveling ISOTs. Hence I will keep mine to at least 90 - if not 100 and more - years. Otherwise it is messy ...
In this case the children in the Kresy with older versions in Uptime Poland have their local Russian or Austrian documents.
 
Last edited:
No idea where the barracks in Cieszyn were, but of its four battalions:
I found them, the barracks were on the Polish side, today there is a school there.
Edit: was, today they belong to the military again, there is now a WOT company located there.
During the communist era the barracks were in use and occupied by WOP.
 
I found them, the barracks were on the Polish side, today there is a school there.
Edit: was, today they belong to the military again, there is now a WOT company located there.
During the communist era the barracks were in use and occupied by WOP.
So,no fighting in Cieszyn.Good - maybe Poland manage to avoid war with A-H,and made bussines there.They need oil,and A-H need modern technology.
P.S It seems,that WW1 get permanently aborted - even if France want fight Germany,Russia would not help them.
 
I mean, would A-H survive? Would Hungary remain in the union? Humph.

On the one hand, this is a great time to dissolve the union, with Galicia gone anyway. But on the other...

Perhaps, if aristocrats and industrialists, regardless of their nationality, are sufficiently scared of Polish socialism... Then remaining in mostly one piece could be considered as better for negotiating with Poland from less desperate position. Especially given that Poland would be busy with Russia. Humph.

Separated, these small countries would almost surely become just polish puppets.

A-H as a whole perhaps likewise, but it would be in stronger position to be "Finlandized", that is retain capitalism etc.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ATP
So,no fighting in Cieszyn.
Not inside the first fifteen minutes from ISOT :)
The nearest garrisons are in Tropau (Opava? Ostrava?) - 1st KuK IR and Olomuntz - 55 KuK IR.
2 hours away by train? And then the 3rd and 93rd ...
And for all I know - my map shows Common Army Regiments only - there could be KK Landwehr Regiment closer by.

In a dissolved A-H the A part is still a c. 26M country, H - 20M.
Poland will be busy with Russia and Germany BOTH - it stole PRUSSIA!
BTW - interesting side-effect - lots of Junkers overwritten. Prussian and German politics will never be the same.

In the Austrian Parliament the politics also are overturned by the loss of Polish MPs. They formed a block, all voting as dictated by the leadership of the Polish Circle (and usually supporting the Gov't against the dastardly Czechs). Now half are gone.

Thinking of populations - the PRL with 35M just shot to 5-7th in Europe:
- Russia 160=170M (nobody knows the exact figure; I subtracted the 12m of the Kingdom)
- Germany 53M - I'm going by memory (lazy Buba! Hiss! Boo!) and estimating the lost Provinces at 13M (Silesia 5, the Prussia's 4,5, Posen - 2, Pommerania 1,5M)
- Austria-Hungary - 46M (lost 3-4M); the remaining 1,5-2M Poles now dropped down to Slovak or Slovene level of relevance;
- UK - 40M
- France - 35M
- Italy - 35M
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ATP
Not inside the first fifteen minutes from ISOT :)
The nearest garrisons are in Tropau (Opava? Ostrava?) - 1st KuK IR and Olomuntz - 55 KuK IR.
2 hours away by train? And then the 3rd and 93rd ...
And for all I know - my map shows Common Army Regiments only - there could be KK Landwehr Regiment closer by.

In a dissolved A-H the A part is still a c. 22M country, H - same.
Poland will be busy with Russia and Germany BOTH - it stole PRUSSIA!
BTW - interesting side-effect - lots of Junkers overwritten. Prussian and German politics will never be the same.

In the Austrian Parliament the politics also are overturned by the loss of Polish MPs. They formed a block, all voting as dictacted by the leadership of the Polish Circle (and usually supporting the Gov't against the dastardly Czechs). Now half are gone.

Thinking of populations - the PRL with 35M just shot to 5-7th in Europe:
- Russia 170M (I subtracted the Kingdom)
- Germany 53M - I'm going by memory (lazy Buba! Hiss! Boo!) and estimating the lost Provinces at 13M (Silesia 5, the Prussia's 4,5, Posen - 2, Pommerania 1,5M)
- Austria-Hungary - 46M (lost 3-4M); the Poles now dropped down to Slovak or Slovene level of relevance;
- UK - 40M
- France - 35M
- Italy - 35M

And polish society from 1974 was stil young.
 
P.S It seems,that WW1 get permanently aborted - even if France want fight Germany,Russia would not help them.
World War? We immediately defused the tension by appearing and de facto destroying the current order. However, local wars are certain.
France seeing Germany getting a beating from us will surely let Russia go in favor of us (and ideologically it will be closer, it will be a choice between a backward and primitive Despotic Monarchy and an advanced and progressive Republic, although we know very well how much of a republic there is). and stab Germany in the back by trying to recapture Alsace-Lorraine, which should be fairly easy when almost the entire German army will be annihilated in a clash with us (in theory if there is a fight and you have to remember that Poland will make some retaliatory moves on Germany but shh, it's a spoiler).

AH, if they do not disintegrate, and this is not yet a foregone conclusion this mess will result rather from the destruction of the war and the killing of Archduke Ferdinand, here, if I am not mistaken, the assassination has not yet taken place and the sudden appearance of us rather make the heir to the throne will have better things to do than loitering around Sarajevo (either that, or we, as a show of good will, will give a warning about what the black hand is planning and for the sake of safety we will present the imperial family with a Polish Fiat as a limousine as a gesture of good will, I mean the archduke would probably survive if it wasn't for the fact that his car, well, he couldn't turn too well so a certain Serb had enough time to approach and aim. )

Another thing is that Austria, seeing how Russia gets fucked by us, may decide that it is time to invade Serbia with Polish permission, agreement.
A-H as a whole perhaps likewise, but it would be in stronger position to be "Finlandized", that is retain capitalism etc.
That is to say, de facto become a fairly independent Polish puppet. Finladia throughout the Cold War was another fairly autonomous puppet of the USSR.
Another thing is that here the term Aurstrialized will be used instead of Finladization. 😛
It is better to have one big market, it is cheaper than a few dozen small ones. Because AH could be watched over so as not to do anything stupid, but try to do it when there will be a whole bunch of these countries.
On the one hand, this is a great time to dissolve the union, with Galicia gone anyway. But on the other...
Perhaps, if aristocrats and industrialists, regardless of their nationality, are sufficiently scared of Polish socialism... Then remaining in mostly one piece could be considered as better for negotiating with Poland from less desperate position. Especially given that Poland would be busy with Russia. Humph.
Well, here the fear of Poland can be considerable, but in the end everything will depend on us, because AH will be the junior partner here. And if someone tries to break the union we will come in with "Brotherly Aid".
And here's where I get some mischief, who is in favor of "repeating history?"
Not inside the first fifteen minutes from ISOT :)
The nearest garrisons are in Tropau (Opava? Ostrava?) - 1st KuK IR and Olomuntz - 55 KuK IR.
2 hours away by train? And then the 3rd and 93rd ...
And for all I know - my map shows Common Army Regiments only - there could be KK Landwehr Regiment closer by.
What kind of map is this? I for Germany found such a cool site. IR 42 – GenWiki
And on it, such a cool map.
Garnisonskarte1914.jpg

In the Austrian Parliament the politics also are overturned by the loss of Polish MPs. They formed a block, all voting as dictated by the leadership of the Polish Circle (and usually supporting the Gov't against the dastardly Czechs). Now half are gone.
Interesting, notes
Thinking of populations - the PRL with 35M just shot to 5-7th in Europe:
- Russia 160=170M (nobody knows the exact figure; I subtracted the 12m of the Kingdom)
- Germany 53M - I'm going by memory (lazy Buba! Hiss! Boo!) and estimating the lost Provinces at 13M (Silesia 5, the Prussia's 4,5, Posen - 2, Pommerania 1,5M)
- Austria-Hungary - 46M (lost 3-4M); the remaining 1,5-2M Poles now dropped down to Slovak or Slovene level of relevance;
- UK - 40M
- France - 35M
- Italy - 35M
Interesting, if you look at it this way it means that we are not numerically distant from the main continental powers.
So all in all we can be number.... two? In terms of powers? Because we lack a fleet, it's a pity that the Germans will also suddenly start to lack one, but technologically and organizationally we beat all the others on their heads, only we don't have such a small thing as 1/4 of the globe for ourselves, but it's a meaningless trifle that the British keep. So if you leave aside the navy and the colonies and dominions, we are pretty much... first. Damn, I honestly didn't think that was so much of an exaggeration, I thought Europe was so slightly more numerous during that period.
So I can go with the plan, Poland does ISOT!America and makes sure America remains an isolationist rump of the world.
Okay, the question is who wants to see the US get whacked for a change? I don't know, the Battle of New York and a Polish invasion of the USA because why not? No one in our world has played that.;)
And no, please here only those who don't have a pain in the ass for everything American.
 
We are about two months before Franz Ferdinand's murder.

Gierek was perceived as a francophile. Even if not a franco-weeabo, then at the very least he should be favourably inclined towards them.

One table I have puts Poland's 1973 GDP at c.180 billion "1990 USD".
The major players in 1913:
USA 500
Germany 280 (lost a bit, no idea how much - 5%? 10%?)
Russia 265 (lost a bit, no idea how much - 5%? 10%?)
UK 230 (double figure for Empire, triple for investments abroad)
France 130 (no idea how much Empire adds; same as UK has lots of money invested abroad)
A-H 120 (did not lose much - Little Poland was very poor, main resource being smallholder peasants and priests)
Italy 90

The Polish 1973 figure is low because of Piłsudski, WWII and planned economy.

I have this map on my HDD:
Also useful, and with Landwehr I think:

Your map is very cool!

This ISOT is a Murica screw by the very facet of eliminating WWI. US economic growth is "set back" by a decade or two (at least) by there being no Great War.

Poland "rules the waves" with its four subs - and nighttime torpedo attacks by surface craft with torpedos - because RADAR!
 
Last edited:
Germany 280 (lost a bit, no idea how much - 5%? 10%?)
I think that between 15% and 20% should be, after all Silesia was the second most important industrial region and its huge coal deposits very important for the German economy. Losing it will hurt Germany more than it seems.
Russia 265 (lost a bit, no idea how much - 5%? 10%?)
1/3 will disappear because it was worth so much only Congres Poland, one-third of all Russia, and soon will get even more, that we will easily reach the half, Russia is rich thanks to its size and number but this wealth is dispersed unevenly and our Staff knows all too well the places where there was Russian industry. In short, IL-28s will be a lot of work and PZL will have to put them into production as soon as possible.
UK 230 (double figure for Empire, triple for investments abroad)
Not that far interesting, the other thing is that only the UK really matters, Canada is still a shithole (as a Canadian pointed out to me) and the rest of the colonies are too far away with their industries to be any obstacle. Any ideas how much Poland will shoot up after liberalization but with the head of the economy?
France 130 (no idea how much Empire adds)
Little, the Empire serves only as a provider of raw materials and a marketplace. Anyway to this day it is so, France never seriously renounced it, only changed its form.
A-H 120 (did not lose much - Little Poland was very poor, main resource being smallholder peasants and priests)
The only things worth there are Bielsko-Biała (in IIRP the richest city in Poland, and industrial plants, well that explains why "Maluchy" was made there) and oil.
And it is quite ironic that it was so poor, a hundred years ago it was a very rich region, unfortunately being connected to the country on the wrong side of the Carpathians killed Malopolska. Today it is clearly visible, because it is the richest region in Poland, together with Silesia. PS Mazovia does not count, it is Warsaw that increases our score, Radom, Plock or Lomza are poor along with the surrounding areas.
We count we are much richer than the Italians. Hmmm, I have an idea for some irony. ;)
The Polish 1973 figure is low because of Piłsudski, WWII and planned economy.
Of which WWII was the most important reason, for over 20 years we de facto rebuilt ourselves between the wars, and then in six years our condition deteriorated and we had to rebuild again for another 20 years. If I remember correctly, we regained our pre-WWI levels of industrial and agricultural production in the ... 60?
Ciekawe, dzięki!
This ISOT is a Murica screw by the very facet of eliminating WWI. US economic growth is "set back" by a decade or two (at least) by there being no Great War.
And Poland may even extend it for a while! (Especially if we let go of the planned economy, which shouldn't be that hard. SB was rather pragmatic and they were the first to do illegal private business, Jaruzel became a communist through Siberia and Jaroszkiewicz was in UB files considered a non-communist, sic! And Gierek? Well, he was in the French Communist Party before the war, but they were such strange communists, and he didn't join the Polish party until '47 or '48. All in all, you could say he was a dyed-in-the-wool communist. And the lion's share of the old guard were former PPS members. Stalinists were few. All in all, probably only the Soviet bayonets kept communism in Poland, even the party members themselves were so because of Moscow, rather than because they believed. And now we have the era of Gierek and flirtation with the West.
All in all, quite a few reasons to leave, Gierek was not Gomulka who was a hardcore communist. Jaruzelski was more of a military dictator with communist outfit, and in the end, the Commies realized very quickly that all this planning could be smashed to hell after the year 81. The first attempt to liberalize the economy took place in 84, but failed for some reason. (The other thing is that the SB at that time was doing itself a whole bunch of left and illegal private business, which hardly anyone paid attention to).

Poland "rules the waves" with its four subs - and nighttime torpedo attacks by surface craft with torpedos - because RADAR!
I was thinking more about our Mig-21s than submarines, those subs are old and very worn out, but during WWI nobody knew how to sink a sub and they didn't have the technology, so even our floating submarines can handle it even if they go very shallow because they can't go above 120 meters anymore, the other thing is that even up to 100 they didn't go for safety reasons.
RADAR, yes but more important is something else, a computer guided fire guidance system in the days when a computer was a person.
Even if you took the old Blyskawica and gave it fire control systems with new engines in place of the destroyed boilers, it would be murderously effective. She could even play dumb in broad daylight with the battleships because she would hit almost always andthe enemy not necessarily. She will be able to dodge shots simply by knowing where they will fall. Although yes, with only torpedoes she can kill bigger ships, too bad ours have 100% accuracy and enemy's close to zero. This is still the era of torpedoes, which after launching fly in a straight line and do not turn. We have at least magnetic ones.

Incidentally, the programming language here will be based on Polish and not English:LOL:, because we are the only ones with an required industry, which, more importantly, Gierek invested in.
 
Last edited:
Poland is into transistors. Poland can into space!
:)
In 1914 it is enough if the subs dive to 20 metres - to avoid ramming.
The ORP Błyskawica is floating scrap metal - forget it.
These poorly designed little shits rule the Baltic at night (and in not-too-bad weather):
and whatever Soviet Projekt 183 ships the Polish still has. The OSA rocket boats - once they fire off the available supply of missiles - are probably best refitted with torpedos too.

I don't think the ISOT losses to German and Russian GDP are that serious, but I'm guessing here and can be very wrong.
BTW - France has lots of money invested in Russia, both directly into business ventures and through loans boosting Russian war making potential. Some people in France will be unhappy ...

The Polish economy can both boom or stagnate - can go either way ...
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ATP
I don;t think the ISOT losses to German and Russian GDP are that serious, but I'm guessing here and can be very wrong.
BTW - France has lots of money invested in Russia, both directly into business ventures and through loans boosting Russian war making potential.
ISOT directly, will crash some of the GDP, but the aftermath, or War, will be much worse. To say why, in order to carry out some serious surgery, it takes about 2 weeks of planning (I follow Wolski here.) There is a lot of bad news about the LWP, but it cannot be said that it does not know how to plan. And the sum sumarum will not go to Hurray in such a situation, especially since they have to plan thoroughly how logistics is supposed to work in this situation and how much LWP can go, because nothing but a lack of stocks will stop it.
And they do not want to be defeated by someone outdated because they ran out of ammunition or fuel at the decisive moment.

Two weeks is enough time in Germany, they mobilized and attacked us, they are not too threatening, but they will eat the supplies that will be needed for the offensive, Russia is less likely to harm them.

Well, you know, two weeks have to keep the Germans and Russians busy. And what kind of weapons do we have that they don't have? And extend their mobilization at a time when we are calmly planning. Hence I say we can give Russia up to half.

Another important thing is that, day by day, Silesia and its raw materials are disappearing for Germany, because with the combination of connected vessels, which is the economy, it will have much greater effects than will be seen in the statistics. On a good day they are losing coal, which is still a very important and more important raw material than crude oil, their agricultural base, which is Wielkopolska, is disappearing, and we both know how much the Germans had a problem with food then, yes, they can get it from import, the problem is that we are much more ruthless than all other countries in the world now? You know IL-28 are bombers, and our Mig-21 plus subs are waiting for targets. We will not take all the imports, but we can reduce it quite well.

Russia, on the other hand, has a lot worse, because while Congres Poland was actually producing mainly basic and rather light goods, heavy industry then Russia made sure that it had it in its industrial centers, the problem was that it was not efficient enough for the needs of the entire war machine and the worst thing is their bottleneck, the railroad. I don't have to finish what are we going to do?

The effects of ISOT during the week in both countries, while Russia will be more hurt because industrial centers are very important to her. The loss of the Congress Poland during World War I was very hard on them, more than they thought.

And France, well, she will be hurt by the loss of these investments.
The lightning bolt went on as an example that a very old scrap could handle it with a trick. A completely different matter is that because of ISOT we will suffer from hunger for hulls for the Navy because suddenly it will turn out to be quite needed and something that will not be small will be useful. (Yes, we will convert some of the bulk carriers into something military, and aviation will give us an advantage, but we will need to have something quite large in the near future before our shipyards develop and assemble something decent.)

Błyskawiczny-type and Osa-type yes, they will be dangerous, but they need the help of large ships, and those without Lightning are just ... three. ORP Wicher, ORP Grom and ORP Warszawa.
At the same time, Wicher II and Grom II are moderately successful ships, much worse at sailing than the older Błyskawica. (Well, the Soviet specialty) (Another thing is that I have a book on hand about the Błyskawiczny type and the Górnik type, I go with the names because it's easier for me to understand than the project and numbers.)

And to make it even more fun, each of our destroyers will be considered cruisers because of their size. (And starting with Błyskawica, they are comparable to light cruisers of that period. Yes, I know they have a different name, but I don't feel like writing it.)
The Polish economy can both boom or stagnate - can go either way ...
Yup
 
I'm fairly sure that a bottleneck/limiter is lack of capacity of manufacturing artillery in larger calibre than 122mm.
Still, that's enough for almost all of the country's needs. 122mm howitzers and 100mm cannon and 120mm mortars (and anything smaller, naturally) - does the LWP need larger pieces in quantity?
Any larger pieces can be outsourced to Schneider :)
Or Skoda :p
 
World War? We immediately defused the tension by appearing and de facto destroying the current order. However, local wars are certain.
France seeing Germany getting a beating from us will surely let Russia go in favor of us (and ideologically it will be closer, it will be a choice between a backward and primitive Despotic Monarchy and an advanced and progressive Republic, although we know very well how much of a republic there is). and stab Germany in the back by trying to recapture Alsace-Lorraine, which should be fairly easy when almost the entire German army will be annihilated in a clash with us (in theory if there is a fight and you have to remember that Poland will make some retaliatory moves on Germany but shh, it's a spoiler).

AH, if they do not disintegrate, and this is not yet a foregone conclusion this mess will result rather from the destruction of the war and the killing of Archduke Ferdinand, here, if I am not mistaken, the assassination has not yet taken place and the sudden appearance of us rather make the heir to the throne will have better things to do than loitering around Sarajevo (either that, or we, as a show of good will, will give a warning about what the black hand is planning and for the sake of safety we will present the imperial family with a Polish Fiat as a limousine as a gesture of good will, I mean the archduke would probably survive if it wasn't for the fact that his car, well, he couldn't turn too well so a certain Serb had enough time to approach and aim. )

Another thing is that Austria, seeing how Russia gets fucked by us, may decide that it is time to invade Serbia with Polish permission, agreement.

That is to say, de facto become a fairly independent Polish puppet. Finladia throughout the Cold War was another fairly autonomous puppet of the USSR.
Another thing is that here the term Aurstrialized will be used instead of Finladization. 😛
It is better to have one big market, it is cheaper than a few dozen small ones. Because AH could be watched over so as not to do anything stupid, but try to do it when there will be a whole bunch of these countries.

Well, here the fear of Poland can be considerable, but in the end everything will depend on us, because AH will be the junior partner here. And if someone tries to break the union we will come in with "Brotherly Aid".
And here's where I get some mischief, who is in favor of "repeating history?"

What kind of map is this? I for Germany found such a cool site. IR 42 – GenWiki
And on it, such a cool map.
Garnisonskarte1914.jpg


Interesting, notes

Interesting, if you look at it this way it means that we are not numerically distant from the main continental powers.
So all in all we can be number.... two? In terms of powers? Because we lack a fleet, it's a pity that the Germans will also suddenly start to lack one, but technologically and organizationally we beat all the others on their heads, only we don't have such a small thing as 1/4 of the globe for ourselves, but it's a meaningless trifle that the British keep. So if you leave aside the navy and the colonies and dominions, we are pretty much... first. Damn, I honestly didn't think that was so much of an exaggeration, I thought Europe was so slightly more numerous during that period.
So I can go with the plan, Poland does ISOT!America and makes sure America remains an isolationist rump of the world.
Okay, the question is who wants to see the US get whacked for a change? I don't know, the Battle of New York and a Polish invasion of the USA because why not? No one in our world has played that.;)
And no, please here only those who don't have a pain in the ass for everything American.
1.France would have no problem with replacing Russia with PRL as allies,they would ally with anybody who would help them retake Alsace.
And,after germans get beaten,Bavaria,Saxony and Winterbergia could be free states again - they have their own kings and armies.
Fiat for archiduke - i hope,not Fiat 126p ? ;)

2.A-H arleady was german puppet,so why not change overlords ? all they wanted was somebody strong enough to beat bad bear.In this TL,it would be Poland.

3.Poland could not invade USA,we do not have fleet.But,if we allied with England,it could be done.Since USA do not have real army,all we need is send few dyvisions.
With british fleet help,could be done.

I'm fairly sure that a bottleneck/limiter is lack of capacity of manufacturing artillery in larger calibre than 122mm.
Still, that's enough for almost all of the country's needs. 122mm howitzers and 100mm cannon and 120mm mortars (and anything smaller, naturally) - does the LWP need larger pieces in quantity?
Any larger pieces can be outsourced to Schneider :)
Or Skoda :p
Yes,and you do not need anything bigger then 150mm anyway - that role would be fulfilled by planes.
About planes - we have prototype of light fighter TS16 grot,abadnned becouse of soviets.
Now,it could be made - and would be better ten everything what other countries could do for next 30 years.

And we by that time we have something like Mig 29.And,as you say,we would be arleady in space by that time.
 
I don't know, the Battle of New York and a Polish invasion of the USA because why not? No one in our world has played that.;)

That's logistically unfeasible.

And the British Empire wouldn't want to ally with communists (even "liberal" ones in comparision with Lenin) nor support such trashed balance of power in Europe. Anglo-US alliance to try to contain Poland/Europe is more probable.

2.A-H arleady was german puppet,so why not change overlords ?

At first they had still delusions that's equal alliance, I think. Anyway, they would need to cede areas around Lwów of course. But otherwise, I would support keeping them in one piece, if feasible.
 
Last edited:
That's logistically unfeasible.

And the British Empire wouldn't want to ally with communists (even "liberal" ones in comparision with Lenin) nor support such trashed balance of power in Europe. Anglo-US alliance to try to contain Poland/Europe is more probable.
It's more of a fun, and I was thinking of it in the 40s/50s category as a possibility.
As for the logistics, it is feasible but later.

As for alliance, UK's main role for Europe is balance, for them Poland vs Europe would be the best scenario although it doesn't mean it will be too feasible but that will be their original plan.
Anglo-American alliance may happen, but it doesn't have to, for one thing. Secondly, we have more than 60 years of advantage in everything, especially in aviation, jets are not as easy to make as you think (designing and building a jet engine is really high school, it takes a lot of patience and resources to do it) and British empire is just playing with oil-powered ships.

Back to logistics, it's difficult yet the US was able to do it one way, the same can be done the other especially if the UK falls because let's not kid ourselves MiGs will make chaff from the RN and that's the only thing keeping everything else off the Islands. Remove the RN and you destroy not only the foundation of the Empire but the sense of defense. Seizing the island is just a formality. And I don't have to remind you that building a fleet takes years? Especially when someone rips off a whole lot of good sailors and officers. Then we have a catastrophe, if the UK gets into a war with Poland it's over. After the fall of Germany, Poland will have an area for airfields from which targeting Scapa Flow will be a formality, and we have our subs!

And what's even more funny, the USA suffers from a similar problem, US Navy is the main sense of America's defense, of course the Americans, unlike the British, have a chance to drive off the attackers from the sea, because after all it's a country the size of a damn continent. The other thing is that rather massacring US Navy will break the sense of further fight.
(Because let's not deceive ourselves, if there is a clash of US Navy VS Polish MW it will rather be a result of an attack of the Poles than the Americans, they are not so stupid as to simply send their fleet to certain death, they will keep it close to the East Coast beyond the reach of Polish planes. Until we rebuild the bulk carriers into aircraft carriers. Then, we have just a formality.)

But that's, you know, more of a scenario for a possible future or some omake from the what if cycle?

3.Poland could not invade USA,we do not have fleet.But,if we allied with England,it could be done.Since USA do not have real army,all we need is send few dyvisions.
With british fleet help,could be done.
Poland has no fleet now, but in 20/30 years? It will have one(Especially if we manage to come up with a way to put Stefan Karol on the throne of Poland and make him into another Willi who wanted to build Boats because they are cool.), but as I say it's more for fun, because if we have German Invasion of the USA, British, Japanese, Russian or even fucking Korean then why not give Poland one for fun, each of them is different. Poland will have its own approach too.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ATP
It's more of a fun, and I was thinking of it in the 40s/50s category as a possibility.
As for the logistics, it is feasible but later.

As for alliance, UK's main role for Europe is balance, for them Poland vs Europe would be the best scenario although it doesn't mean it will be too feasible but that will be their original plan.
Anglo-American alliance may happen, but it doesn't have to, for one thing. Secondly, we have more than 60 years of advantage in everything, especially in aviation, jets are not as easy to make as you think (designing and building a jet engine is really high school, it takes a lot of patience and resources to do it) and British empire is just playing with oil-powered ships.

Back to logistics, it's difficult yet the US was able to do it one way, the same can be done the other especially if the UK falls because let's not kid ourselves MiGs will make chaff from the RN and that's the only thing keeping everything else off the Islands. Remove the RN and you destroy not only the foundation of the Empire but the sense of defense. Seizing the island is just a formality. And I don't have to remind you that building a fleet takes years? Especially when someone rips off a whole lot of good sailors and officers. Then we have a catastrophe, if the UK gets into a war with Poland it's over. After the fall of Germany, Poland will have an area for airfields from which targeting Scapa Flow will be a formality, and we have our subs!

And what's even more funny, the USA suffers from a similar problem, US Navy is the main sense of America's defense, of course the Americans, unlike the British, have a chance to drive off the attackers from the sea, because after all it's a country the size of a damn continent. The other thing is that rather massacring US Navy will break the sense of further fight.
(Because let's not deceive ourselves, if there is a clash of US Navy VS Polish MW it will rather be a result of an attack of the Poles than the Americans, they are not so stupid as to simply send their fleet to certain death, they will keep it close to the East Coast beyond the reach of Polish planes. Until we rebuild the bulk carriers into aircraft carriers. Then, we have just a formality.)

But that's, you know, more of a scenario for a possible future or some omake from the what if cycle?


Poland has no fleet now, but in 20/30 years? It will have one(Especially if we manage to come up with a way to put Stefan Karol on the throne of Poland and make him into another Willi who wanted to build Boats because they are cool.), but as I say it's more for fun, because if we have German Invasion of the USA, British, Japanese, Russian or even fucking Korean then why not give Poland one for fun, each of them is different. Poland will have its own approach too.

1.True about possibility of sinking of their fleets and how it affect their morale.
2.Made Poland invade USA only becouse it is cool? you convicted me.If you add continental gun made by Poland to bomb USA,and new supertanks with 2 guns each,that story would be perfect!
P.S made polish invasion troops look like Krieg from WH40,too!
And- since you have Wędrowycz - use village of apemans which exist near his village,too.Captain Wypruwacz should be still healthy in 1974 !
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top