What went wrong with Europe

[LordsFire]

My my, I think we've identified the root of many of America's modern woes. It's strange in some ways as the Founding Fathers devised the US government to prevent abuse of power, yet a bad President still did as much damage as a bad King in the long run. And, pardon my saying, it seems the very safeguards against tyranny in the American system ultimately hamstring the reformers trying to amend the errors of bad Presidents.

You had the same problem you have everywhere; someone oversteps the legal power of their office, but nobody stops them from doing so, because all human institutions have a critical failing. They're staffed by humans.

The USA has been more resistant than most, but this is by no means immunity.

 

[Lord Sovereign]

You had the same problem you have everywhere; someone oversteps the legal power of their office, but nobody stops them from doing so, because all human institutions have a critical failing. They're staffed by humans.

The USA has been more resistant than most, but this is by no means immunity.

Oh absolutely, it's a flaw which sits at the heart of all systems. I just wonder if it begs the question of "if the car crash is going to happen anyway, why make things more difficult for those who'll be cleaning up the mess afterwards?"

Woodrow Wilson's errors will echo for a long time yet. Henry VII patched up the aftermath of a fucking civil war, fixed England's finances and founded the Tudor dynasty in less then a lifetime. Edward I essentially amended the errors of t h r e e less than stellar Kings of England. I'm hardly arguing for a return to absolute monarchy, but one can't help but observe.

 

[Sailor.X]

Honestly if we’re looking to where the UK and most of the Western World started to go wrong, I’d blame World War I. As almost everything we’ve had to deal with since is the result of bungled political decisions made during or in its immediate aftermath. We should have just let the French and Germans duke it out.

I actually blame all those little wars that began at the dawn of the 19th Century. Europe didn't do itself any favors bopping each other on the head during the 19th Century.

 

[Tiamat]

I personally blame the fact that Humanity chose to go to war for god knows what that's been lost to time starting at the earliest known recorded era of civilization, or before. Or for the simple fact that as long as two humans disagree, they're going to fight.

One can certainly assign some blame for what we're dealing with now on some of the previous culprits mentioned...but at the end of the day, the butterfly effect is hard to map. If X didn't happen, maybe Y wouldn't happen...but about about Z? Would life necessarily be any better, or maybe worse? I think it's always easy to pinpoint blame on one or two factors, which is easy to do and dangerous when there are always going to be a multitude of other factors involved.

Forgive me for speaking in generalities, but that's my two cents.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I personally blame the fact that Humanity chose to go to war for god knows what that's been lost to time starting at the earliest known recorded era of civilization, or before. Or for the simple fact that as long as two humans disagree, they're going to fight.

One can certainly assign some blame for what we're dealing with now on some of the previous culprits mentioned...but at the end of the day, the butterfly effect is hard to map. If X didn't happen, maybe Y wouldn't happen...but about about Z? Would life necessarily be any better, or maybe worse? I think it's always easy to pinpoint blame on one or two factors, which is easy to do and dangerous when there are always going to be a multitude of other factors involved.

Forgive me for speaking in generalities, but that's my two cents.

Plus, whatever occurred with the past, we of the present can still change things by actually trying to look at the past and present circumstances

The cause & effect of things in a much more critical way and try to figure out what to do

Unfortunately, it’s hard to be objective in judging and understanding past and present, it doesn’t help if people can call someone with their own surprisingly research as being “too biased”

 

[DarthOne]

Plus, whatever occurred with the past, we of the present can still change things by actually trying to look at the past and present circumstances

The cause & effect of things in a much more critical way and try to figure out what to do

Unfortunately, it’s hard to be objective in judging and understanding past and present, it doesn’t help if people can call someone with their own surprisingly research as being “too biased”

The problem is that most of the time it feels like it’s a few intelligent people screaming from the sidelines as the general public dances to the tune of snake-oil salesmen and women. Look no further then the resurgence of socialism as an ideology in recent years for example. Or the general insanity plaguing the western world.

Even at best case scenario, we’ve got an uphill battle ahead.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The problem is that most of the time it feels like it’s a few intelligent people screaming from the sidelines as the general public dances to the tune of snake-oil salesmen and women. Look no further then the resurgence of socialism as an ideology in recent years for example. Or the general insanity plaguing the western world.

Even at best case scenario, we’ve got an uphill battle ahead.

I think it’s because during the Cold War and slightly after it, socialism was already on the rise

BUT in a more “moderate” form that involved “cooperation” with “private/big business” in a possibly planned economy

Calling them Socialists as even guys here admit, was a mistake as they compromised with said businessmen

It didn’t help that people basically kept on funding academia or public schooling as government institutions, it would be in their own interest for stronger government or simply put more government interference combined with the presence of a “rebel culture” and a large number of “intellectuals” who are “rebelling” against society

Well, you lose out

Should have decentralized as much as possible a LONG time ago