Zyobot
Just a time-traveling robot stranded on Earth.
Being both a radical green and a self-proclaimed "ally" of the Muslim community aren't mutually exclusive, though...
What if Pim Fortuyn survives his assassination attempt?
- Thread starter VictortheMonarch
- Start date
Being both a radical green and a self-proclaimed "ally" of the Muslim community aren't mutually exclusive, though...
Skallagrim
Well-known member
He never truly clarified his motives. He's refused to answer questions, and one condition of his eventual release from prison was a life-long ban from holding interviews or otherwise seeking publicity (e.g. publishing a book about the matter).
VictortheMonarch
Victor the Crusader
honestly I feel that assassination of a public figure should be execution, due within a three year period.
Skallagrim
Well-known member
I see no reason to wait even three years.
Of course, we don't even have the death penalty in the Netherlands. Which is, I think, a mistake. It shouldn't be used lightly, and the main issue to guard against is the danger of executing someone who later turns out to be innocent -- but in this case, we know with absolute certainty that Volkert van der Graaf is the murderer. He is unrepentant. They should have just erected a gallows and dealt with him.
Same for Mohammed Bouyeri, who murdered Theo van Gogh. Same for those guys who killed crime reporter Peter R. de Vries last year. (And since one of them is a cousin of a henchman of Ridouan Taghi, I think it fitting to just execute Taghi as well. There can be no sane person who questions that he and his criminal organisation were behind this.)
...Of course, would it help? It would certainly deal with those specific thugs, but others are already lined up to fill the resulting vacancies. Civility and sanity have already lost. We live now in an age of radicalism, thuggery, terrorism, barbarity, mass shootings and mental illness. Perhaps, speaking of the Netherlands in specific, if a man like Fortuyn had gotten his way, he culd have turned things around. At least to a sufficient degree, to make further -- more gradual -- solutions feasible in the long term.
But that was twenty years ago. And he got killed for his efforts. In the following decades, things have only gotten worse and worse. And even now, there is no political majority for such a simple thing as "bring back the death penalty for the worst scum out there".
VictortheMonarch
Victor the Crusader
I feel that the only way to fight Barbarism, is to be more Barbaric, but that's besides the point. Our world is ruled by a cabal of the unholy, and we are but the broken sword that use to force them to cower in fear.
Maybe it would have deterred van der Graaf, but somehow, I don't think that the death penalty would actually deter nutty suicidal Muslims. Apparently some Muslim extremists say something along the lines of "We love death more than the infidels love life". To such people, the death penalty would be absolutely no deterrent.
They say that and far too many of them mean it, but for others it's just bravado.
Execution of assassins is also something that must be seen to be inadequate before most people will accept the actually useful mass expulsion.
FWIW, to clarify, I wasn't actually talking about the expulsion of all Muslims here. Though expelling the extremely radical kind or at least actively encouraging them to leave might not necessarily be such a bad idea.
How do you tell the difference between a moderate Muslim and a murderous but patient fanatic practicing military deception against Dar al-Harb?
I'm not familiar with that denomination. Maybe you can trust a Hoejabi, but can you trust that the person you're trusting is actually a Hoejabi?I would classify hoejabis as moderate Muslims.
The trouble is that while a Catholic isn't permitted to pretend to be Russian Orthodox, a Sunni can pretend to be of another denomination.
If someone's family have tried to murder them for apostacy that's a good sign, but maybe don't let them have security clearances because they're not stupid and if failed honor killings are a reliable way to get someone accepted they'll start deliberately failing to kill fake apostates.
Oh, a pejorative for Muslim women who behave as loosely as western women. No, that falls well within the military deception exception. Martyrdom covers all of that up.
TBH, I strongly suspect that 99.99% of hoejabis are not aspiring martyrs.
The question isn't how many apparently westernized Muslims are aspiring martyrs. The question is how many aspiring martyrs can fake being westernized. Just because their goals are mad doesn't mean they're stupid in how they pursue them.
And while one in ten thousand might be a barely acceptable risk if you have ten of them in your country it's definitely not when you have a thousand. The Netherlands have a population of 17 million and ~5% are Muslim. That's hundreds of thousands. Over eighty people by your reckoning plotting to expend their lives doing as much harm as possible.