Science What are your thoughts on so called Light Pollution

[Bear Ribs]

Your sources are suspect. These are the same people that were championing all the Global Warming/ Climate change data that never came to pass. And I take everything from National Geographic with a grain of salt given their track record. So no try again.

As compared to your big nothing whatsoever? But fine, I'm used to arguing with bad-faith actors who sit back and demand I prove everything while presenting only the lowest-effort anecdotes themselves. My anecdote is worth just as much as yours, the difference being I have more than just anecdotes.

Rapid increase in global light pollution

Global light pollution has increased by at least 49% over 25 years, new research shows.

phys.org

5 Popular Myths About LED Streetlights - International Dark-Sky Association

The rapid changes in LED lighting technology have given rise to an LED retrofit revolution. Across the globe, municipalities are opting to switch out their older street lighting to new, more energy-efficient LEDs. Unfortunately, these […]

www.darksky.org

Energy-saving LEDs increase light pollution

Cheap, energy-efficient LEDs have increased usage and therefore reduced darkness globally, threatening natural processes.

optics.org

https://www.space.com/38872-light-pollution-increasing-globally.html

What is light pollution? - Crossroads LED

Light pollution is the introduction of artificial light into the night sky. Artificial lighting is the primary cause of sky glow, obscuring the stars and creating perpetual twilight. Light pollution contributes to light trespass issues on public and private properties. Today, 80% of the US...

crossroadsled.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/energy-efficient-light-bulbs-increase-light-pollution-1.4410756

Lamp Spectrum and Light Pollution - Flagstaff Dark Skies Coalition

The spectrum of artificial light sources strongly influences light pollution impacts, especially sky glow.

www.flagstaffdarkskies.org

The Streetlights in an Entire County Were Swapped to LEDs. Light Pollution got Worse

“The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry” – this famous paraphrase of Scottish poet Robert Burns sometimes sums up human ingenuity. That is exactly what happened when a county in Washington State decided to replace all of its county-owned streetlights with LEDs at least partially in...

www.universetoday.com

Changes in night sky brightness after a countywide LED retrofit

The US National Park Service (NPS) Night Skies Program measured changes in sky brightness resulting from a countywide lighting retrofit project. The r…

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Sailor.X]

As compared to your big nothing whatsoever? But fine, I'm used to arguing with bad-faith actors who sit back and demand I prove everything while presenting only the lowest-effort anecdotes themselves. My anecdote is worth just as much as yours, the difference being I have more than just anecdotes.

Rapid increase in global light pollution

Global light pollution has increased by at least 49% over 25 years, new research shows.

phys.org

5 Popular Myths About LED Streetlights - International Dark-Sky Association

The rapid changes in LED lighting technology have given rise to an LED retrofit revolution. Across the globe, municipalities are opting to switch out their older street lighting to new, more energy-efficient LEDs. Unfortunately, these […]

www.darksky.org

Energy-saving LEDs increase light pollution

Cheap, energy-efficient LEDs have increased usage and therefore reduced darkness globally, threatening natural processes.

optics.org

https://www.space.com/38872-light-pollution-increasing-globally.html

What is light pollution? - Crossroads LED

Light pollution is the introduction of artificial light into the night sky. Artificial lighting is the primary cause of sky glow, obscuring the stars and creating perpetual twilight. Light pollution contributes to light trespass issues on public and private properties. Today, 80% of the US...

crossroadsled.com

https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/energy-efficient-light-bulbs-increase-light-pollution-1.4410756

Lamp Spectrum and Light Pollution - Flagstaff Dark Skies Coalition

The spectrum of artificial light sources strongly influences light pollution impacts, especially sky glow.

www.flagstaffdarkskies.org

The Streetlights in an Entire County Were Swapped to LEDs. Light Pollution got Worse

“The best laid plans of mice and men often go awry” – this famous paraphrase of Scottish poet Robert Burns sometimes sums up human ingenuity. That is exactly what happened when a county in Washington State decided to replace all of its county-owned streetlights with LEDs at least partially in...

www.universetoday.com

Changes in night sky brightness after a countywide LED retrofit

The US National Park Service (NPS) Night Skies Program measured changes in sky brightness resulting from a countywide lighting retrofit project. The r…

www.sciencedirect.com

I can play the posty game too if you want.
Use LED Lights to Reduce Light Pollution - LED Light & Power (ledlightandpower.com)
LED Practical Guide - International Dark-Sky Association (darksky.org)
Using Dark-Sky Approved Lighting to Reduce Light Pollution (voltlighting.com)
10 Reasons Why LED Lights Are Good For The Environment

See there are sites all over the internet that support whatever side there is. Anyone can play the posty game. It solves nothing.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I can play the posty game too if you want.
Use LED Lights to Reduce Light Pollution - LED Light & Power (ledlightandpower.com)
LED Practical Guide - International Dark-Sky Association (darksky.org)
Using Dark-Sky Approved Lighting to Reduce Light Pollution (voltlighting.com)
10 Reasons Why LED Lights Are Good For The Environment

See there are sites all over the internet that support whatever side there is. Anyone can play the posty game. It solves nothing.

No, I presented actual scientific studies in my list, you fail to do so. You've got some stuff by people selling LEDs or promoting them, and one by the actually reliable Dark Sky Association... which you clearly didn't read since it undercuts your point.

Concerns about blue light reach far beyond biology. Outdoor lighting with strong blue content is likely to worsen skyglow because it has a significantly larger geographic reach than lighting consisting of less blue. According to the 2016 “New World Atlas of Artificial Night Sky Brightness” street lighting and outdoor lighting retrofits using 4000-kelvin white LED lamps could result in a factor of 2.5 increase in light pollution.[vi] Given that the rate of increase of lighting as seen from Earth orbit is about 2 percent per year,[vii] it is all the more important to address this problem.

Seriously, how low effort are you going here? Your own link contradicts what you claim about it.

But hey, if you're allergic to science... I'll take you up on that offer to take a picture of your night sky.

This is what the night sky looks like in a Bortle level 2 (Low light pollution) zone, slightly more light pollution than you've claimed to have. I rather doubt you're going to pull this off.

This is a class 4 moderate light pollution zone, more likely where you're at.

Ideally you should take a shot of the Galaxy M33 in the Triangle constellation, it's the standard for measuring light pollution.

 

[Sailor.X]

No, I presented actual scientific studies in my list, you fail to do so. You've got some stuff by people selling LEDs or promoting them, and one by the actually reliable Dark Sky Association... which you clearly didn't read since it undercuts your point.

Concerns about blue light reach far beyond biology. Outdoor lighting with strong blue content is likely to worsen skyglow because it has a significantly larger geographic reach than lighting consisting of less blue. According to the 2016 “New World Atlas of Artificial Night Sky Brightness” street lighting and outdoor lighting retrofits using 4000-kelvin white LED lamps could result in a factor of 2.5 increase in light pollution.[vi] Given that the rate of increase of lighting as seen from Earth orbit is about 2 percent per year,[vii] it is all the more important to address this problem.

Seriously, how low effort are you going here? Your own link contradicts what you claim about it.

But hey, if you're allergic to science... I'll take you up on that offer to take a picture of your night sky.

This is what the night sky looks like in a Bortle level 2 (Low light pollution) zone, slightly more light pollution than you've claimed to have. I rather doubt you're going to pull this off.

This is a class 4 moderate light pollution zone, more likely where you're at.

Ideally you should take a shot of the Galaxy M33 in the Triangle constellation, it's the standard for measuring light pollution.

The sky above my home is way darker than that bub.

 

[Bear Ribs]

The sky above my home is way darker than that bub.

Ha ha! Oh man, this is hilarious. That's a sign you're suffering from high levels of light pollution. The sky appears darker the more sky glow you're suffering from as the stars are washed out and you can't see the faint galactic clouds anymore.

Just go ahead and take your picture, I'm calling your bluff. Show me a shot of m33.

 

[Sailor.X]

Ha ha! Oh man, this is hilarious. That's a sign you're suffering from high levels of light pollution. The sky appears darker the more sky glow you're suffering from as the stars are washed out and you can't see the faint galactic clouds anymore.

Just go ahead and take your picture, I'm calling your bluff. Show me a shot of m33.

I am currently at work in an industrial park in the Summerville area of SC. I won't be home until morning. You are gonna have to wait until Saturday if you want a nighttime pic at my home.

 

[Bear Ribs]

I am currently at work in an industrial park in the Summerville area of SC. I won't be home until morning. You are gonna have to wait until Saturday if you want a nighttime pic at my home.

Sure, that's reasonable.

 

[Captain X]

He's not wrong though in that attempts to prevent light pollution are making it harder to see at night in the actual cities.

 

[Sailor.X]

Sure, that's reasonable.

If is cloudy tonight maybe tomorrow it will be clear.

 

[Bear Ribs]

He's not wrong though in that attempts to prevent light pollution are making it harder to see at night in the actual cities.

This is true, and to an extent it's important to realize that we need to tolerate a certain amount of pollution in order to have a functional society. I'm mainly railing against the claim that there is no such thing as light pollution, or that it's no problem at all, not saying we need to darken every city to a candle flicker. Stupidly austere environmental measures have too great a cost.

As an analogy, in the same way we need polluting cars to function but I would give the side-eye to anybody claiming gas engines produce no pollution or that auto exhaust isn't harmful.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

at the risk of sounding like a jerk. we're all going to die, heck aging itself is basically a nice cuddly way of saying your body is slowly expiring until one day it finally ceases to function and rots back into the ground. "Ashes to ashes dust to dust from the ground you came to the ground you shall return." Until someone develops nano technology that constantly maintain the body to where it ceases to age after a certain point, that's not going to change. So, the question is which is the less bad way to go. Personally, I rather die of noise pollution than dysentery or black plague.

 

[Robovski]

Tucson, AZ (where I lived for about 5 years) has light pollution restrictions, is in the desert, and has a massive homeless problem, and lots of visiting elderly winterbirds making a perfect storm of conditions so that pedestrians and cyclists are routinely struck by cars at night and low light conditions. That said, I appreciated being able to see stars and not having the sky completely stripped from me like here in Long Beach, CA.

 

[Bear Ribs]

If is cloudy tonight maybe tomorrow it will be clear.

So, has it stayed cloudy a whole week straight now?

 

[Sailor.X]

So, has it stayed cloudy a whole week straight now?

I have honestly forgot about it. I have been busy all week with work and family issues.

 

[BlackDragon98]

So, has it stayed cloudy a whole week straight now?

must be those Soviet clouds they launched back in 1989

light pollution is a minor problem in comparison to say . . .

all those stupid glass buildings that reflect light in the day and make all the birds confused, resulting in them crashing headfirst into them

which often results in death

which in turn leads to a decrease in the bird population among other things (the number of goddamn feline menaces both domestic and feral are not helping either)

which causes the insect population to go wild, hence why Mr. Sailor is yakking about a bug problem in his city

we should all start hunting down cats to save the birds.

much more important that a slight glow at night, which can be solved by WW2 era blackout curtains

 

[Sailor.X]

must be those Soviet clouds they launched back in 1989

light pollution is a minor problem in comparison to say . . .

all those stupid glass buildings that reflect light in the day and make all the birds confused, resulting in them crashing headfirst into them

which often results in death

which in turn leads to a decrease in the bird population among other things (the number of goddamn feline menaces both domestic and feral are not helping either)

which causes the insect population to go wild, hence why Mr. Sailor is yakking about a bug problem in his city

we should all start hunting down cats to save the birds.

much more important that a slight glow at night, which can be solved by WW2 era blackout curtains

When you mentioned the bugs you reminded me about this problem that is coming in 2 years.
Have You Heard the Buzz? | Home & Garden Information Center (clemson.edu)

As to hunting down the cats......... That is gonna be problematic if only because we have a lot of rabid animal lovers in the US. They may excuse Deer and Wild Boar hunts. But they more than likely will go full Jihad if we started hunting cats. As in a literal Jihad.

 

[BlackDragon98]

When you mentioned the bugs you reminded me about this problem that is coming in 2 years.
Have You Heard the Buzz? | Home & Garden Information Center (clemson.edu)

they're not locusts and they only drink sap

stop freaking everyone out

As to hunting down the cats......... That is gonna be problematic if only because we have a lot of rabid animal lovers in the US. They may excuse Deer and Wild Boar hunts. But they more than likely will go full Jihad if we started hunting cats. As in a literal Jihad.

they already been doing it for some time Down Under

australia cat hunting magazine - Google Search

 

[Sailor.X]

they're not locusts and they only drink sap

stop freaking everyone out


they already been doing it for some time Down Under

australia cat hunting magazine - Google Search

It's not about freaking out it is about having a few million of the buggers singing while I am at work for 2 weeks straight so I can't hear myself think. Just like it was the last time.

 

[Bacle]

they already been doing it for some time Down Under

australia cat hunting magazine - Google Search

You attempt a 'cat hunt' in the US, instead of the normal 'trap, spay/neuter, release' that animal welfare groups already do, and @Sailor.X is not wrong, because that could cause something close to a Jihad, and a bipartisan Jihad at that.

Both the Left and Right in the US like cats, a lot, and even the Far-Left rad-green don't push 'cat hunts' when 'trap, spay/neuter/release' is already well ingrained in US culture.

Only people who might go for it are PETA and ELF, which would just give people more reason to hate them.

 

[Robovski]

I find the sound of cicadas singing very nostalgic. There are multiple broods that are in the southern Illinois region where I was a child and I remember gathering their dried husks from the bases of trees. The critters will eat well and they will call and you might see them swarm but really that's about it, they don't predate on crops or bite.