Warbirds Thread

[Tiamat]

The hypersonic aircraft project? Yeah, no. Hypersonic engines are stupid hard to manufacture, largely because of the sheer stresses involved...

Aliens? Not likely, largely because just trying to work out what their tech can do will get that specific scene in The Avengers where Captain America tries to fix the duct fans of the SHIELD Helicarrier...

No, the land around it is already toxic, given that they're nuclear weapon testing grounds (why Area 51 got its name, it was the 51st nuclear testing site area).

Largely because US military doctrine is predicated on the fact they've got the best aircraft...

The shape is a bit off for that... and smaller. Remember, Vulcan bombers are huge things.

Jeez, @Aaron Fox , you ruined my joke. You could have at least said "No, you impervious twit! Everyone knows there are no aliens at Site 51! They are at STONEHENGE!"


And, while being admittedly biased as ex-U.S. Air Force, it's not so much the U.S. military would suddenly collapse over having no air dominance, rather over the fact that NOT having air dominance, or at least some level of air supremacy tends to really, really suck. Hard to get troops and tanks moving anywhere, or keep your supply lines open if they're getting constantly bombed. Ask the Germans and Japanese in the last World War, or even the Vietnamese, or hell, ask the Iraqis.


CAVEAT: Though to be honest we probably tend to lean a bit more on achieving air supremacy than we care to admit. That said, I refer back to the previous point. That plus the US Army and Marine's history in regards to having effective SHORAD and AAA defense tends at best to be rather, well, mixed.

 

[PsihoKekec]

Looks like some of the 6th gen stuff we've been hearing about for the past year or so.

Given the the lack of pixels I can't say with certainty but it could be Hermeus Quarterhorse demonstrator.

 

[gral]

Given the the lack of pixels I can't say with certainty but it could be Hermeus Quarterhorse demonstrator.

There's people saying it's a SAAB Draken.

 

[Vargas Fan]

There's people saying it's a SAAB Draken.

The Draken had two fairly prominent air intakes, I don't see them here.

 

[bintananth]

How the P-51 works:


And the P-38:


Every single part of a P-51 - except for some of the engine - can be lofted and drawn by 14yr old who has passed an Algebra class.

The P-38 went into unknown performance territory and could hit Mach numbers during a dive which would tear the airframe apart.

 

[Aaron Fox]

And the P-38:


Every single part of a P-51 - except for some of the engine - can be lofted and drawn by 14yr old who has passed an Algebra class.

The P-38 went into unknown performance territory and could hit Mach numbers during a dive which would tear the airframe apart.

It should be noted that the P-38 was the best example of the 'Destroyer' multi-role aircraft concept. A heavy fighter that can escort bombers, do interceptions, even ground support.

 

[bintananth]

It should be noted that the P-38 was the best example of the 'Destroyer' multi-role aircraft concept. A heavy fighter that can escort bombers, do interceptions, even ground support.

I would rate the de Haviland Mosquito as a close equal.

 

[paulobrito]

I would rate the de Haviland Mosquito as a close equal.

Different mission profile - Mosquito is the best tactical bomber, night fighter, strike fighter, intruder and recon plane.

 

[bintananth]

Different mission profile - Mosquito is the best tactical bomber, night fighter, strike fighter, intruder and recon plane.

Both are examples of "designed to be excellent at one thing, very good at lots of other things too because ... 'what the heck, why not?'"

 

[BF110C4]

Add to the Mosquito the characteristic of easing the strain of strategic metals as well. Göring was really envious of a frontline rated heavy fighter/light bomber that used wood instead of light alloys which fit the idea of the prewar Schnellbomber (fast bomber) doctrine better than any german model, which was particularly ironic since the western powers prefered heavily armed and armored but slow bombers.

 

[PsihoKekec]

And then the German project to make their own wooden counterpart hit the snag of the glue factory they relied upon, being destroyed by the Bomber Command and the substitute was not as good, degrading the performance.

 

[Tiamat]

The DeHaviland Mosquito was the warplane that almost wasn’t, the British Air Ministry thought the idea of a fighter bomber that utilized materials like wood (which would be in far greater supply than steel in the UK in the event of war) and forsook heavy defensive armament like gun turrets in favor of high speed was too radical. The timing could not have been better though when WW2 came along. It really is a testament to the genius and tenacity of its designers.

For those interested, while there are several non-flying examples of Mosquitos still on display, there is a rebuilt one, Serial number KA114 that has been rebuilt, airworthy and flying, currently housed at the Military Aviation Museum in Virginia Beach, Virginia.

AIRIC deHavilland Mosquito KA114

 

[bintananth]

Add to the Mosquito the characteristic of easing the strain of strategic metals as well. Göring was really envious of a frontline rated heavy fighter/light bomber that used wood instead of light alloys which fit the idea of the prewar Schnellbomber )fast bomber) doctrine better than any german model, which was particularly ironic since the western powers prefered heavily armed and armored but slow bombers.

Using wood also made it easier to train the workers who built them. Joe Cabinetmaker? "Don't worry, I've got this". Suzie Soccermom probably picked up some of the basics when she was a kid.

 

[BF110C4]

But the most revolutionary characteristic was that the combination of the relatively low radar profile of wood, the use of tracking devices attuned to german IFF and radar as well as the occasional use of jammers and 'Window' radar reflective aluminium foils of their own allowed No. 100 RAF squadron to act as night fighter escorts to RAF bombers.

 

[PsihoKekec]

I wouldn't call them escort though, their tactics to the end of war were more of the intruder kind, trying to intercept german night fighters near their airfields or rally points.

 

[BF110C4]

I wouldn't call them escort though, their tactics to the end of war were more of the intruder kind, trying to intercept german night fighters near their airfields or rally points.

Fair enough, either way they made the hunters feel hunted and raised the morale of the bomber crews, which combined with their pathfinder duties increased the effectiveness of the RAF night bombing operations.

 

[Harlock]

Japanese Betty twin engined bombers on a torpedo run at Guadalcanal

 

[PsihoKekec]

I think that was the group that sunk Repulse and Prince of Wales, it suffered something like 80% casualties in Guadcanal, mostly to American fighters.

 

[ATP]

I think that was the group that sunk Repulse and Prince of Wales, it suffered something like 80% casualties in Guadcanal, mostly to American fighters.

And being flying lighter do not helped.Since they attacked british ships without their Zero escorts,if Bufallos come 2houre earlier they would save them.

 

[BF110C4]

I think that was the group that sunk Repulse and Prince of Wales, it suffered something like 80% casualties in Guadcanal, mostly to American fighters.

To be fair the air combat over Guadalcanal was basically the worst case of an escorted attack run over a defended area, with the japanese bases being at the extreme range of their fighters and crossing several areas where the allies had observers. Every air raid was forced to use exactly the same approach vector since the island was the only target in the region and the zeroes lacked enough fuel to come from a different angle therefore giving the marine and air corps planes plenty of time to take off and gain ideal altitude for an interception then when the furball in the sky started the japanese fighters had limited time to dogfight before retiring especially if they used full military power during the battle.

And for the japanese bombers the situation was much worse because the enemy knew the aproximate number of planes before a raid and often the coastwatchers could time the waves of fighters and bombers who were unable to regroup before the battle due to the same lack of fuel so the american squadrons would be able to keep a reserve specifically to intercept the japanese after their escorts were preoccupied often resulting in a skeet shoot.