Tucker Carlson Leaving Fox News

[Skallagrim]

Not really, that is economic based on not being a nuclear superpower and having control of most of the global financial system.

What foreigners don't get, is that people in the US can make debt work for them, by selling it to foreigners on commodities markets, or as a nation by leveraging it for international relations purposes.

The old economic models come from old economic assumptions that are broken with nuclear power in play, both from an energy generation and foreign affairs/military stand-point.

The USD is backed up by CVNs, GPS, the SWIFT system, Hollywood, oil/extractive industries, the US Federal Reserve, and ultimately our nuclear weapons.

Not all economic systems are equal in terms of context, not all currency is worth the same, sovereign debt doesn't work like national debt, and the main reasons people like you are stuck in the old economic system is because your national is smaller than some US states and even some of our metro areas and not a nuclear power outside of being part of NATO.

At least Poland is getting into the nuclear economy, which is what the modern economy is, a NUCLEAR ECONOMY, and if you don't have nukes or reactors, you aren't playing on the same level.

Your argument here touches on the monetary side of the argument (backed versus fiat currency), which is often linked to this topic, but which I didn't mention. Note that even with fiat currency, inflation can be avoided by simply not printing more money than would represent the real annual growth of the economy. It's just that governments lack the self-control for that.

Your argument, however, doesn't touch on my actual argument here. Which is that regardless of mechanism, inflation has adverse effects. Which have nothing to do with anything in your post...

 

[Vyor]

and causes a spiral where prices always increase while wages lag.

This isn't true though? Until the pandemic, the middle class was shrinking because more people were entering the upper class rather than going down to lower classes.

Was this caused by inflation? Obviously not. Did inflation stop it? Unarguably no. Shutting the economy down stopped it.

All of those "productivity vs wages" charts don't account for either women entering the workforce, doubling the effective money supply for consumers, nor the fact that those things that are being produced faster and faster and faster... are also getting much, much cheaper. Seriously, when was the last time you saw a radio or microwave selling for 500, 600 dollars? That used to be the norm and now... not even a tenth the price for basic models.

Family incomes went massively up when women entered the workforce en-mass and that is what caused prices to rise, because everyone had more money to throw around. Quality of life only went down for people living on their own.

 

[Cherico]

Not really, that is economic based on not being a nuclear superpower and having control of most of the global financial system.

What foreigners don't get, is that people in the US can make debt work for them, by selling it to foreigners on commodities markets, or as a nation by leveraging it for international relations purposes.

The old economic models come from old economic assumptions that are broken with nuclear power in play, both from an energy generation and foreign affairs/military stand-point.

The USD is backed up by CVNs, GPS, the SWIFT system, Hollywood, oil/extractive industries, the US Federal Reserve, and ultimately our nuclear weapons.

Not all economic systems are equal in terms of context, not all currency is worth the same, sovereign debt doesn't work like national debt, and the main reasons people like you are stuck in the old economic system is because your national is smaller than some US states and even some of our metro areas and not a nuclear power outside of being part of NATO.

At least Poland is getting into the nuclear economy, which is what the modern economy is, a NUCLEAR ECONOMY, and if you don't have nukes or reactors, you aren't playing on the same level.

Its like your entire frame of reference is based on less then a centuries worth of knowlege.


The spanish empire thought much the same way as you did using very similar logic. They immolated their economy and blew up their entire society with said idea it did not end well.

The chinese regieme that invented paper money had a similar thought process they immolated their economy and blew up their entire society.

You had the Japanese under the heian period who thought much the same and they blew up their society and economy so badly that the Samurai who were formally considered to be a bunch of uncooth country bumkins had to take over an essentially unfuck the mess that was made.

Your entire argument essentially boils down to "This time its different because were special"

Which you know all of those previous people said the exact same thing and had the exact same results.

 

[Morphic Tide]

Quality of life only went down for people living on their own.

While I agree with most of it, nuclear family households also saw issues because the resulting price increases didn't take long to make single-earner non-viable and that forces  vastly more painful schedules than before or a large expense on caretaking.

 

[mrttao]

Yup.Inflation is anti-Robin Hood who robb poor and give money to rich.

> "anti-Robin Hood who robb poor and give money to rich."

The word you are looking for is "Feudalism". Possibly "Robber Barons".
Robbing the poor to give to the rich is not a new concept.

 

[Vyor]

While I agree with most of it, nuclear family households also saw issues because the resulting price increases didn't take long to make single-earner non-viable and that forces  vastly more painful schedules than before or a large expense on caretaking.

That's a fair rebuttal.

 

[Poe]

This isn't true though? Until the pandemic, the middle class was shrinking because more people were entering the upper class rather than going down to lower classes.

Both lower and upper class has grown in number since 1970, it isn't all just people moving to upper class.

 

[Vyor]

Both lower and upper class has grown in number since 1970, it isn't all just people moving to upper class.

Not in percentage, the lower class was shrinking as a proportion... once you take out minorities.

 

[Poe]

Not in percentage, the lower class was shrinking as a proportion... once you take out minorities.

Yes as a percentage, how else could it have grown? The lower class is higher than it was in 1971[1] meanwhile the upper class has remained 10-12% with only the wealthiest class having grown actually.[2]. Further, despite inflation the threshold for lower/middle/upper class have not been adjusted so someone living in San Francisco making 50k a year is treated as "middle class" in these idiotic metrics despite being working poor because rent is 3k a month.

1. How the American middle class has changed in the past five decades
2. The American Middle Class Is Losing Ground

 

[Vyor]

Yes as a percentage, how else could it have grown? The lower class is higher than it was in 1971[1] meanwhile the upper class has remained 10-12% with only the wealthiest class having grown actually.[2]. Further, despite inflation the threshold for lower/middle/upper class have not been adjusted so someone living in San Francisco making 50k a year is treated as "middle class" in these idiotic metrics despite being working poor because rent is 3k a month.

1. How the American middle class has changed in the past five decades
2. The American Middle Class Is Losing Ground

I'm amused, because your very first citation shows that more people entered the upper class than entered the lower class (or, really, were born into the lower class).

The upper class grew 7%, the lower class grew 4%.

 

[Bacle]

Your argument here touches on the monetary side of the argument (backed versus fiat currency), which is often linked to this topic, but which I didn't mention. Note that even with fiat currency, inflation can be avoided by simply not printing more money than would represent the real annual growth of the economy. It's just that governments lack the self-control for that.

Your argument, however, doesn't touch on my actual argument here. Which is that regardless of mechanism, inflation has adverse effects. Which have nothing to do with anything in your post...

Inflation works differently for nuclear versus non-nuclear powers, is what I was trying to get at.

Its like your entire frame of reference is based on less then a centuries worth of knowlege.


The spanish empire thought much the same way as you did using very similar logic. They immolated their economy and blew up their entire society with said idea it did not end well.

The chinese regieme that invented paper money had a similar thought process they immolated their economy and blew up their entire society.

You had the Japanese under the heian period who thought much the same and they blew up their society and economy so badly that the Samurai who were formally considered to be a bunch of uncooth country bumkins had to take over an essentially unfuck the mess that was made.

Your entire argument essentially boils down to "This time its different because were special"

Which you know all of those previous people said the exact same thing and had the exact same results.

You seem to forget I have a degree in geology, so I have a much better view of the 'deep past' than you do, including the parts of the past before civilization began, and far more of the human past than I expect you do either, particularly knowledge outside the Torah/Bible or the popular narrative of western civilization.

And we ARE special, is what you don't get; none of those other civilizations had split the atom, achieved orbit, or many other paradigm changing/breaking bits of context the old civs just didn't have.

Context matters, context changes, and that is why just trying to pretend we are another version of a past civ is folly.

 

[Cherico]

Inflation works differently for nuclear versus non-nuclear powers, is what I was trying to get at.

You seem to forget I have a degree in geology, so I have a much better view of the 'deep past' than you do, including the parts of the past before civilization began, and far more of the human past than I expect you do either, particularly knowledge outside the Torah/Bible or the popular narrative of western civilization.

And we ARE special, is what you don't get; none of those other civilizations had split the atom, achieved orbit, or many other paradigm changing/breaking bits of context the old civs just didn't have.

Context matters, context changes, and that is why just trying to pretend we are another version of a past civ is folly.

While A geology degree is useful and has a whole lot of uses.

Its not useful in this particular instant.

When it comes to mining it would give you a tremendous amount of clout, when it comes resource extraction the same, which areas will be the most geologically stable and which building styles should be used based on soil and sub soil really it is a useful degree.

It fails however when it comes to macro history and greater economic trends.

 

[Bacle]

While A geology degree is useful and has a whole lot of uses.

Its not useful in this particular instant.

When it comes to mining it would give you a tremendous amount of clout, when it comes resource extraction the same, which areas will be the most geologically stable and which building styles should be used based on soil and sub soil really it is a useful degree.

It fails however when it comes to macro history and greater economic trends.

You don't really understand the sort of education a geology degree gets; there is no history more 'macro' than geologic history, except stellar or galactic history. Geology is nearly every hard science rolled into one, and gives you a background on the history of this planet, life on it, and how geology can fuck human civs like nothing else.

It also gives insight into how civilization usually advances; hint, it's usually one dead agency/department chair at a time, when they can no longer block or suppress new discoveries that would have embarrassed or proven wrong the previous leadership. The Planck length of science as some call it. And it also shows how 'tradition' often objected to geological/fossil findings that didn't fit religious texts, and were suppressed by church/religious institutions.

This doesn't even get into the other parts of history I've paid attention to, like military and even environmental changes in human history and pre-history.

Geology also helps people step back from previous dogma or 'tradition', because the rocks don't care, the fault lines don't care, volcanoes don't care, and it helps ground someone in the world beyond just human history or human narratives of history.

Nuclear power, orbital capability, world-wide 24/7/365 surveillance networks, near-instantaneous world wide comms, and mass literacy is a fundamental change in the context of how human society operates, in ways that are not comparable to the old world's slow changes and dogma around economics.

The US is something new, we did split the atom and get to the moon before others, we control the SWIFT system, our USD is back by our military and cultural might as well as the Federal Reserve. It is because I understand geological history, human history, and modern history that I know the US is something new, something special, something that has not come before.

 

[King Arts]

You don't really understand the sort of education a geology degree gets; there is no history more 'macro' than geologic history, except stellar or galactic history. Geology is nearly every hard science rolled into one, and gives you a background on the history of this planet, life on it, and how geology can fuck human civs like nothing else.

It also gives insight into how civilization usually advances; hint, it's usually one dead agency/department chair at a time, when they can no longer block or suppress new discoveries that would have embarrassed or proven wrong the previous leadership. The Planck length of science as some call it. And it also shows how 'tradition' often objected to geological/fossil findings that didn't fit religious texts, and were suppressed by church/religious institutions.

This doesn't even get into the other parts of history I've paid attention to, like military and even environmental changes in human history and pre-history.

Geology also helps people step back from previous dogma or 'tradition', because the rocks don't care, the fault lines don't care, volcanoes don't care, and it helps ground someone in the world beyond just human history or human narratives of history.

Nuclear power, orbital capability, world-wide 24/7/365 surveillance networks, near-instantaneous world wide comms, and mass literacy is a fundamental change in the context of how human society operates, in ways that are not comparable to the old world's slow changes and dogma around economics.

The US is something new, we did split the atom and get to the moon before others, we control the SWIFT system, our USD is back by our military and cultural might as well as the Federal Reserve. It is because I understand geological history, human history, and modern history that I know the US is something new, something special, something that has not come before.

Dude no general history is more relavent than geology. All the standard historical cycles people focus on shows that human civilization is no more than 10,000 years old. Geology can study things further back then that, and while humans have been around for over 100,000 years most of that time they were nothing special so there is nothing great too be learned by those who were the equal of the sentinel islanders. Humans back then did not have civilization and culture and cities. That is a recent invention of only 10,000 years.

 

[Cherico]

You don't really understand the sort of education a geology degree gets; there is no history more 'macro' than geologic history, except stellar or galactic history. Geology is nearly every hard science rolled into one, and gives you a background on the history of this planet, life on it, and how geology can fuck human civs like nothing else.

It also gives insight into how civilization usually advances; hint, it's usually one dead agency/department chair at a time, when they can no longer block or suppress new discoveries that would have embarrassed or proven wrong the previous leadership. The Planck length of science as some call it. And it also shows how 'tradition' often objected to geological/fossil findings that didn't fit religious texts, and were suppressed by church/religious institutions.

This doesn't even get into the other parts of history I've paid attention to, like military and even environmental changes in human history and pre-history.

Geology also helps people step back from previous dogma or 'tradition', because the rocks don't care, the fault lines don't care, volcanoes don't care, and it helps ground someone in the world beyond just human history or human narratives of history.

Nuclear power, orbital capability, world-wide 24/7/365 surveillance networks, near-instantaneous world wide comms, and mass literacy is a fundamental change in the context of how human society operates, in ways that are not comparable to the old world's slow changes and dogma around economics.

The US is something new, we did split the atom and get to the moon before others, we control the SWIFT system, our USD is back by our military and cultural might as well as the Federal Reserve. It is because I understand geological history, human history, and modern history that I know the US is something new, something special, something that has not come before.

Your not quite getting it.

Litterally every civilization said the exact same thing that.

1. this time its different.

2. Were special.

Splitting the Atom? Other ocuntries did it, controlling swift the other countries are already adapting to that. Our military might? We litterally got our asses handed to us by a bunch of goat herders. Cultural might? Have you seen how many flops we've had?

Were not special, and were not that much better then the people who came before us.

The path ahead is to take the best of the past and all of the lessons from it, take what isn't a dumpster fire from modernity and find a way to meld the best of both and move past the modern era into something better.

For that to happen the west needs to stop hating itself, it needs to stop pointlessly self destructing and it needs some basic self respect.

 

[Bacle]

Your not quite getting it.

Litterally every civilization said the exact same thing that.

1. this time its different.

2. Were special.

You will not engage with the facts of change in context, tech, environment, knowledge base, instead it's your usual mantra's...

We are supposed to learn from the past, not be anchored too it, and you don't seem to understand the difference.

We are not living in a 'social experiment', as you tell yourself out of cope. Yes, your people have survived for a long time on traditions; it's not tradition that gave your people the Sampson Option, it was the fuck US of A's research and industrial might that did the hard work figuring out how to do this shit.

You have not read nearly enough Sun Tsu, or learned the lessons of Chingus and Kublai and Tamerlane, and if it was not for the US splitting the atom, Israel would still be split between other nations in that area instead of once again being the Jewish homeland. Mongol's practiced democracy as well, remember, and the Mongols were rather massive exceptions to many of history's cycles and rules, just like the US, and unlike the Chingus's Mongolia, we are not a landlocked, horse-based power.

Israel had kings, England had Kings, France had Kings, Mongols had Khans; the US never has, never will, and George Washington rejecting the power of a King is why the US is so fundamentally different in history, and what allowed our tech and social structure to evolve to be able to be so strong, even at a weak point.

And SpaceX and commercial space is what is going to allow the next frontier to truly open, and that is once again the US creating the environment where that could become a reality.

There will be rabbi's and Mormon's and Sikh's ribbing on each other around Pluto some day, and in all likelihood they will all have American flag patches on their arms or on the outside of their ship or station.

This is the problem with focusing so much on 'tradition'; it also binds one to the ignorance and incorrect assumptions about the world of those who created them. Like the whole Jewish pork and shell-fish prohibition is just a left-over trichinosis and red-tide poisoning defense mechanism from some cultural trauma of some really undercooked pork and bad clams.

It's why I could never convert to Judaism, I like bacon and shrimp far to much, and know how to cook it correctly, unlike Moses did. Food safety protocols have come a long way in the last few thousand years, it's kinda silly it's still 'on the books', as it were.

Splitting the Atom? Other ocuntries did it, controlling swift the other countries are already adapting to that. Our military might? We litterally got our asses handed to us by a bunch of goat herders. Cultural might? Have you seen how many flops we've had?

Were not special, and were not that much better then the people who came before us.

The path ahead is to take the best of the past and all of the lessons from it, take what isn't a dumpster fire from modernity and find a way to meld the best of both and move past the modern era into something better.

For that to happen the west needs to stop hating itself, it needs to stop pointlessly self destructing and it needs some basic self respect.

Again, you are making incorrect assumptions about the root causes of some of those issues plaguing the US, and about what is the way to resolve or mitigate those issues, because you only are willing to look backward and judge the present by the past, instead of trying to meld and shape the future to protect what is vital for survival in the world as it is now, not back when Moses came down from the mountain.

 

[mrttao]

Israel had kings

You are thinking of Judea.
Israel neverhad kings

the US never has, never will,

The USA literally has a dementia patient ruling it as a puppet while a secret cabal of aristocrats rule from the semi-shadows.
USA is already a fully feudal nation, and is very close to having a king.

 

[Bacle]

You are thinking of Judea.
Israel neverhad kings

I thought Israel was a kingdom within Judea, or was one part of Judea, and was called Israel at the time?

Am I wrong about this?

The USA literally has a dementia patient ruling it as a puppet while a secret cabal of aristocrats rule from the semi-shadows.
USA is already a fully feudal nation, and is very close to having a king.

We are close to having 50 war tribes in a loose overcoat, and yes Biden has dementia, that doesn't change a lot of the fundamental context of the US, and because of the safeguards in the system, SCOTUS has been able to limit and even reverse much of the damage.

 

[ATP]

> "anti-Robin Hood who robb poor and give money to rich."

The word you are looking for is "Feudalism". Possibly "Robber Barons".
Robbing the poor to give to the rich is not a new concept.

Robber barons.Average feudals cared,in their own way,for their subjects.
P.S Izrael had Kings,and last one was defeated and imprisoned by Assyria.I think,that they blinded him,too,but they were,well,assyrians.

 

[mrttao]

I thought Israel was a kingdom within Judea, or was one part of Judea, and was called Israel at the time?

Am I wrong about this?

Ok so I looked into it again.and there is some back and forth on whether it is called Israel or Judea.
There was some flip flops on which is the name of the people, and which is the name of the country.
So there was technically a kingdom of israel some 2000 years ago.

but... to say modern israel founded in 1948 has much to do with the kingdom from 2000 years ago is as ridiculous as saying that the nazies were part of the roman empire. just because the larped as being their successors.