Tabletop TSR is returning: The Birthplace of the RPG

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Well, I can see their reasoning. With them being pre-emptively banned from all the cons they basically lost just about any chance of moving forward. They could stand up to the Twitter mob but being pre-emptively blocked from public events would just plain sink the company, no questions asked. RPGs, especially everything that isn't DnD, are really, really dependent on conventions to get their brand recognized.
The problem is that capitulating to the mob isn't going to get them un-banned; it's just going to be taken as an admission of guilt, and be used as a justification for why they should stay banned. Even if they could get the mob off of their backs, it still wouldn't help; because part of the reason they're being banned has nothing to do with the controversy, but rather the fact that Hasbro wants to strangle this potential competitor to Wizards of the Coast in its crib to maximize the sale price of that subsidiary.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
The problem is that capitulating to the mob isn't going to get them un-banned; it's just going to be taken as an admission of guilt, and be used as a justification for why they should stay banned. Even if they could get the mob off of their backs, it still wouldn't help; because part of the reason they're being banned has nothing to do with the controversy, but rather the fact that Hasbro wants to strangle this potential competitor to Wizards of the Coast in its crib to maximize the sale price of that subsidiary.
You're right. I don't actually agree with TSR's reasoning, I can merely see where it's coming from. They really don't have anything to lose from capitulating either, as they were basically already beaten the moment they got cancelled from the cons and rendered unable to advertise or have a chance of selling their product.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
You're right. I don't actually agree with TSR's reasoning, I can merely see where it's coming from. They really don't have anything to lose from capitulating either, as they were basically already beaten the moment they got cancelled from the cons and rendered unable to advertise or have a chance of selling their product.
They might have been able to use the controversy to position themselves as an anti-regressive left alternative to mainstream PnP RPGs, but they clearly weren't prepared for such a drastic pivot in terms of market strategy. They were hoping for mainstream success, but that was never going to happen with people chomping at the bit for the next thing to be offended by.
 

Ixian

Well-known member
They might have been able to use the controversy to position themselves as an anti-regressive left alternative to mainstream PnP RPGs, but they clearly weren't prepared for such a drastic pivot in terms of market strategy. They were hoping for mainstream success, but that was never going to happen with people chomping at the bit for the next thing to be offended by.

The possibility was there. The story was gaining some traction with conservative influencers.

They basically killed any chance of that by backing down.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
So new TSR is getting sued by Wizards of the Coast; this time for making a new Star Frontiers book. Small problem with that; Wizards' trademark for that particular IP has long since lapsed, so they're trying to argue that since they own the rights to publish old TSR books they own the TSR brand, and thus own the trademark in perpetuity.

Also the book is racist; because of course it is.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Man, the RPG world's Powers That Be really don't want the Gygax name coming back and threatening their stranglehold on the industry.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Man, the RPG world's Powers That Be really don't want the Gygax name coming back and threatening their stranglehold on the industry.
And their fanboys are buying it hook, line, and sinker. I first found out about this from a guy I was subscribed to thanks to a video review he did for a storage solution for Magic the Gathering cards. Suffice to say, after watching him calling the new TSR racists and comparing them to Trump (as if that were some sort of dire condemnation of their character in and of itself), I'm not subscribed to him anymore.
 

gral

Well-known member
So new TSR is getting sued by Wizards of the Coast; this time for making a new Star Frontiers book. Small problem with that; Wizards' trademark for that particular IP has long since lapsed, so they're trying to argue that since they own the rights to publish old TSR books they own the TSR brand, and thus own the trademark in perpetuity.

Also the book is racist; because of course it is.
I've skimmed an article(which takes WoTC's side) about that; as far as I can tell, Hasbro(because let's be plain here, WoTC merely is the skinsuit they wear for all RPG matters) doesn't have much a point about the first thing; ironically, they have a (very) slightly better point about the first thing(I wouldn't have used the wording they used in some of the shown passages), but:

1) I don't really give a fuck about the offended people, just as they don't give a fuck about me(and probably want me to get fucked, something that also is reciprocated on my part);

2) The racism thing is beside the object matter of the suit, which is whether Hasbro owns the Star Frontiers IP or not, not whether they are contemptible shits or not.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
It looks like Hasbro is very much making racism the object matter of the suit, they've filed a 100-page long injunction that's basically claiming their image will be hurt by any association with nuTSR. They've even entered pages of their own games into evidence to show that they are working hard to be as woke and inclusive as possible in comparison to TSR.

Worth noting there's some corporate espionage going on here it seems, given WoTC looks like it has TSR internal documents they're submitting.


 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
It looks like Hasbro is very much making racism the object matter of the suit, they've filed a 100-page long injunction that's basically claiming their image will be hurt by any association with nuTSR. They've even entered pages of their own games into evidence to show that they are working hard to be as woke and inclusive as possible in comparison to TSR.

Worth noting there's some corporate espionage going on here it seems, given WoTC looks like it has TSR internal documents they're submitting.



I'd argue their "diversity" stance is what's negatively impacting their image, but I guess they only care about what violently delusional cultists think about them.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
I'd argue their "diversity" stance is what's negatively impacting their image, but I guess they only care about what violently delusional cultists think about them.
A company on the rise releases new products.
A company on the decline sues to keep their competition from releasing new products.

More seriously though, from a strategic POV what they're doing makes sense. It's not about appeal, it's about control. In the roleplaying world, it's all about networking and building a player base; and for that you need Cons. The handful of big-name publishers have consistently maintained their stranglehold on the industry by controlling access to the big Conventions for decades.

Methinks this lawsuit with its mass of allegations of racism and hate isn't aimed at winning in court, where such arguments are given little merit in a case about trademarks. Rather it's about giving the Conventions excuses to ban nuTSR from having any booths, in-con games, merch, and other opportunities to network and build a player base.
 

Lord Sovereign

Well-known member
Methinks this lawsuit with its mass of allegations of racism and hate isn't aimed at winning in court, where such arguments are given little merit in a case about trademarks. Rather it's about giving the Conventions excuses to ban nuTSR from having any booths, in-con games, merch, and other opportunities to network and build a player base.

It's rather depressing to think how oh so very much of this could end if people stopped giving the word "racism" any power.
 

gral

Well-known member
Methinks this lawsuit with its mass of allegations of racism and hate isn't aimed at winning in court, where such arguments are given little merit in a case about trademarks. Rather it's about giving the Conventions excuses to ban nuTSR from having any booths, in-con games, merch, and other opportunities to network and build a player base.
You can bet this is the objective.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
Reading deeper into the accusations, Wizards may actually have a point about the new Star Frontiers being racist; what with it listing "Negros" as a race with 10+ in all stats (except intelligence, which maxes out at 9), followed immediately by a "Nordic" race with 13+ in all stats, including intelligence.
 

S'task

Renegade Philosopher
Administrator
Staff Member
Founder
Reading deeper into the accusations, Wizards may actually have a point about the new Star Frontiers being racist; what with it listing "Negros" as a race with 10+ in all stats (except intelligence, which maxes out at 9), followed immediately by a "Nordic" race with 13+ in all stats, including intelligence.
That just seems to convenient and perfect... I'm honestly suspect of the origin of those documents because it's straight up to perfect an example.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
Reading deeper into the accusations, Wizards may actually have a point about the new Star Frontiers being racist; what with it listing "Negros" as a race with 10+ in all stats (except intelligence, which maxes out at 9), followed immediately by a "Nordic" race with 13+ in all stats, including intelligence.
I agree, that looks pretty terrible.

I'm slightly suspicious because all of the problematic bits are from purported leaks of private documents with no way to tell if it's the real deal or not. Further, none of those races listed are from Star Frontiers and in fact kinda counter its themes. Star Frontiers was big on avoiding traditional alien races like the reptilians and grays and had all, fairly original species that didn't look very humanoid at all, like the many-legged Vrusk, invertibrate plasmoid Dralasites, and winged-monkey Yazirians.

Seeing a list of generic "Grey, Goblin, Reptilian, Extremely Blatant Racism Not Seen Since FATAL" looks much more like an entirely different work.

Edit: And looking at it more the list of leaked stuff appears to be getting more and more ridiculous. Bullet Points of racism (What document type is in that format anyway?) A list of real-life enemies to be retaliated against?! Seriously?

 
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Ixian

Well-known member
I agree, that looks pretty terrible.

I'm slightly suspicious because all of the problematic bits are from purported leaks of private documents with no way to tell if it's the real deal or not. Further, none of those races listed are from Star Frontiers and in fact kinda counter its themes. Star Frontiers was big on avoiding traditional alien races like the reptilians and grays and had all, fairly original species that didn't look very humanoid at all, like the many-legged Vrusk, invertibrate plasmoid Dralasites, and winged-monkey Yazirians.

Seeing a list of generic "Grey, Goblin, Reptilian, Extremely Blatant Racism Not Seen Since FATAL" looks much more like an entirely different work.

Edit: And looking at it more the list of leaked stuff appears to be getting more and more ridiculous. Bullet Points of racism (What document type is in that format anyway?) A list of real-life enemies to be retaliated against?! Seriously?



This looks like a hoax, not a single corporation in America would be so dumb as to utilize something this tone deaf, even as an internal document.

Plus, as previously mentioned, "Nordic" and "Negroid" alien races have never been a part of Star Frontiers.
 
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Robovski

Well-known member
None of the controversial stuff seems to be a part of Star Frontiers, not that they can't be making up new stuff for a new launch but really? "Negroids?" Just seems like some half-assed plant or photoshop.
 

Ixian

Well-known member
None of the controversial stuff seems to be a part of Star Frontiers, not that they can't be making up new stuff for a new launch but really? "Negroids?" Just seems like some half-assed plant or photoshop.

It all seems fake. Look at the "list of haters" it unironically says "Chads Revenge". This is some stupid zoomer level humor hoax, or at least appears to be. I can't imagine any company seriously trying to make a comeback ever creating documents like these, not even for internal use.

Until some sources other than Hasbro/WotC and rando blue checkmarks appears to confirm it, I'm going to assume this is nothing more than an attempt to smear their competitors.
 

Bear Ribs

Well-known member
TSR has stated the pages are photoshopped.



Ryan Palmer
tonSopesrd9f l9ttt1uuyufu81u7t9c5latu2130tJ9l7u4l3i5i187a6gm ·
Someone actually went so far as to Photoshop a leaked game document in an attempt to slander Justin LaNasa and his crew at TSR Hobbies .
TSR is still in litigation with Wizards of the Coast. This is blatant. What kind of gullible bastard would believe that anyone would publish such a thing?
Here is the fake first, then the real document screenshot, I have the game file in my email. You all are stupid.
 

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