Transgender Rights

[Jormungandr]

Would you kindly point out where I said all feminists were women? Turns out their are plenty of idiot men who are part of that misandrist ideology as well.

Thing is not all women are feminists, but the feminist mindset has irrecoverably contaminated our society and values/mindsets.

You can have a woman believe in traditional values, such as having a husband and family and, ya know, not being a fucking whore, while also thinking that being a sex worker (e.g. Only Fans, stripping, or even being an effectively unpaid sex worker with modern college lifestyles, et cetera) is something perfectly fine and "empowering", or that being a "boss babe" until they hit their thirties or forties is perfectly fine before looking for a husband/to have a family.

It doesn't help that women are basically poison to other women, such as dragging them out to nightclubs when they're married and have kids at home, encouraging them to cheat or divorce "because you could do so much better", et cetera.

Reality, of course, isn't that kind to these women.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

Thing is not all women are feminists, but the feminist mindset has irrecoverably contaminated our society and values/mindsets.

You can have a woman believe in traditional values, such as having a husband and family and, ya know, not being a fucking whore, while also thinking that being a sex worker (e.g. Only Fans, stripping, or even being an effectively unpaid sex worker with modern college lifestyles, et cetera) is something perfectly fine and "empowering", or that being a "boss babe" until they hit their thirties or forties is perfectly fine before looking for a husband/to have a family.

It doesn't help that women are basically poison to other women, such as dragging them out to nightclubs when they're married and have kids at home, encouraging them to cheat or divorce "because you could do so much better", et cetera.

Reality, of course, isn't that kind to these women.

I'm not sure where this whole obsession for being a girl boss. I mean there seems to be this idea that it's a gentleman's club but we're seeing huge swaths of men (I'm talking normies not just the terminally online) longing to abandon career culture and become tradesman or even just working in manufacturing because those monkey suit office jobs feel completely hollow and have completely ruined their social life as well as ruined their sense of spirituality and self worth at least that seems to be the common story I've been seeing and have experienced for myself.

So when most men say "don't focus on being career women. it's not men saying stay in your lane it's them saying"career culture is of the devil avoid it like the disease to your soul that it is."

I think it's a case of feminism misunderstanding or purposely misconstruing what modern men are looking for in life. Most men do not want #careers they want a family and a sense of meaning and unfortunately even as far back as the 80s with the yuppies, many were duped into believing corporate career culture would provide them with a purpose as well as a means of getting rich, while in reality leaving them struggling paycheck to paycheck and without family OR meaning.

 

[Typhonis]

We used to work to live, now we live to work.

 

[mandragon]

Would you kindly point out where I said all feminists were women? Turns out their are plenty of idiot men who are part of that misandrist ideology as well.

You didn't but it's an important point because they constantly claim to speak for all women and that simply isn't true

 

[Grimalkin]

I think it's a case of feminism misunderstanding ot purposely misconstruing what modern men are looking for in life. Most men do not want #careers they want a family and a sense of meaning and unfortunately many were duped into believing corporate career culture would provide them with a purpose as well as a means of getting rich, while in reality leaving them struggling paycheck to paycheck and without family OR meaning.

What a coincidence it is that the dream the feminists sold just happened to be in the exact direction that would double the size of the labour pool and naturally depress each workers wages, allowing the business class of America to make more money at less of a cost.

 

[Jormungandr]

I'm not sure where this whole obsession for being a girl boss. I mean there seems to be this idea that it's a gentleman's club but we're seeing huge swaths of men (I'm talking normies not just the terminally online) longing to abandon career culture and become tradesman or even just working in manufacturing because those monkey suit office jobs feel completely hollow and have completely ruined their social life as well as ruined their sense of spirituality and self worth at least that seems to be the common story I've been seeing and have experienced for myself.

So when most men say "don't focus on being career women. it's not men saying stay in your lane it's them saying"career culture is of the devil avoid it like the disease to your soul that it is."

I think it's a case of feminism misunderstanding or purposely misconstruing what modern men are looking for in life. Most men do not want #careers they want a family and a sense of meaning and unfortunately even as far back as the 80s with the yuppies, many were duped into believing corporate career culture would provide them with a purpose as well as a means of getting rich, while in reality leaving them struggling paycheck to paycheck and without family OR meaning.

And that's it: Women think that what they want in a man is what a man wants in a woman. It's not.

We don't care if a woman is a waitress or the CEO of fucking Google, so long as she's, well, not a combative, masculine 304. A woman who is a CEO or something dating a construction worker, or a job/profession they see as "beneath" them? Yeah, good luck.

 

[mandragon]

I'm not sure where this whole obsession for being a girl boss. I mean there seems to be this idea that it's a gentleman's club but we're seeing huge swaths of men (I'm talking normies not just the terminally online) longing to abandon career culture and become tradesman or even just working in manufacturing because those monkey suit office jobs feel completely hollow and have completely ruined their social life as well as ruined their sense of spirituality and self worth at least that seems to be the common story I've been seeing and have experienced for myself.

So when most men say "don't focus on being career women. it's not men saying stay in your lane it's them saying"career culture is of the devil avoid it like the disease to your soul that it is."

I think it's a case of feminism misunderstanding or purposely misconstruing what modern men are looking for in life. Most men do not want #careers they want a family and a sense of meaning and unfortunately even as far back as the 80s with the yuppies, many were duped into believing corporate career culture would provide them with a purpose as well as a means of getting rich, while in reality leaving them struggling paycheck to paycheck and without family OR meaning.

It's pushed by the elites as a way to weaponize women against men so they'll become emasculated. Because they are for the most part unable to meet the new standards such women invariably require to access thier wombs. While said women also are actively incentivized,praised for,and socially pressured into further emasculating young men. Through mockery,nagging,and passive aggressive bullying aka "mean girl shit." Thus ensuring that the demographic that is both the most dangerous and the most capable of violence. Will meekly submit to any and all tyrianical dictates that said elite wish to enact. You see my friend as it turns out women have never,will never,and even if they had the desire to do so are frankly incapable of fighting a revolution no matter how masculine they pretend to be. So by doing this to society,assuming that they continue to be successful obviously. The powers that be ensure thier utter dominance of society basically indefinitely barring a total societal collapse.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

And that's it: Women think that what they want in a man is what a man wants in a woman. It's not.

We don't care if a woman is a waitress or the CEO of fucking Google, so long as she's, well, not a combative, masculine 304. A woman who is a CEO or something dating a construction worker, or a job/profession they see as "beneath" them? Yeah, good luck.

your definition of masculine and my idea of masculine I'm certain are different otherwise I agree. I have to wonder, have people forgotten that prior to modern times, combative men who had a chip on their shoulder and constantly picked fights typically got their heads and/or junk shoved in? It's not an endearing trait let alone a respected one unless you're a very specific kind of person.

 

[Cherico]

It's pushed by the elites as a way to weaponize women against men so they'll become emasculated. Because they are for the most part unable to meet the new standards such women invariably require to access thier wombs. While said women also are actively incentivized,praised for,and socially pressured into further emasculating young men. Through mockery,nagging,and passive aggressive bullying aka "mean girl shit." Thus ensuring that the demographic that is both the most dangerous and the most capable of violence. Will meekly submit to any and all tyrianical dictates that said elite wish to enact. You see my friend as it turns out women have never,will never,and even if they had the desire to do so are frankly incapable of fighting a revolution no matter how masculine they pretend to be. So by doing this to society,assuming that they continue to be successful obviously. The powers that be ensure thier utter dominance of society basically indefinitely barring a total societal collapse.

The problem is simply thus, young humilated men end up deeply dispising you for that shit, and you end up in a position where they just fucking hate you, and once a large enough mass of men hates your guts your pretty much fucked. And since this targets pretty much all men the security forces you need to keep the mob at bay?

Their likely to defect and join in.

In the long run its a horrifically bad idea but these are not long term thinkers.

 

[mandragon]

The problem is simply thus, young humilated men end up deeply dispising you for that shit, and you end up in a position where they just fucking hate you, and once a large enough mass of men hates your guts your pretty much fucked. And since this targets pretty much all men the security forces you need to keep the mob at bay?

Their likely to defect and join in.

In the long run its a horrifically bad idea but these are not long term thinkers.

Indeed but the plan is what I laid out its a bad one as you have laid out but it most certainly is what is going on

 

[Cherico]

Indeed but the plan is what I laid out its a bad one as you have laid out but it most certainly is what is going on

this is why I think this establishment will not last forever.

We honestly havent seen an establishment this disconnected and stupid since the french nobility just before the revolution.

 

[Ixian]

your definition of masculine and my idea of masculine I'm certain are different otherwise I agree. I have to wonder, have people forgotten that prior to modern times, combative men who had a chip on their shoulder and constantly picked fights typically got their heads and/or junk shoved in? It's not an endearing trait let alone a respected one unless you're a very specific kind of person.

Yeah, when "combative men" make up 60+ % of your national population, historically that never worked out for the rulers of said nation.

 

[evilchumlee]

They had a trans category at a recent swim meet I watched a video about and the trans refused to enter still entering as women instead. This is the issue,society at large is fairly willing to be reasonable but the trans people continue to refuse to be.

That is my issue. I don't like to engage when people are being overly hostile so i'll ignore some comments. But this is very much my issue.

Trans women and some extremists are dug in on "Trans women are woman and that's fine and there's absolutely zero difference between a trans woman and a woman and if you disagree you are a transphobe nazi". Society is clearly trying to accommodate them. They don't want accommodation, they want complete and total validation to do anything they want with not care as to how it affects others. THAT is not ok.

We do have to address reality, from every direction.

Trans people exist. They have every right to. It's perfectly ok for them.
ALSO
Trans people are not in every way indistinguishable from cis people.

To me, it really is irrelevant in damn near most aspects of life. Live your life. You be you. Totally ok. Feel comfortable in your own skin. But... there ARE times when it is relevant. Sports is one of those few. (as an aside, dating/relationships is one of the few others. It's not transphobic to not be interested in a trans woman. Some of the extremists claim it is but... it's not.)

(also an aside, i'm new to this board, and it's nice to be able to have an actual conversation about this and be able to speak freely without fear of getting banned or screamed down. Other communities absolutely toxic with these kinds of talks.)

 

[DarthOne]

That is my issue. I don't like to engage when people are being overly hostile so i'll ignore some comments. But this is very much my issue.

Trans women and some extremists are dug in on "Trans women are woman and that's fine and there's absolutely zero difference between a trans woman and a woman and if you disagree you are a transphobe nazi". Society is clearly trying to accommodate them. They don't want accommodation, they want complete and total validation to do anything they want with not care as to how it affects others. THAT is not ok.

We do have to address reality, from every direction.

Trans people exist. They have every right to. It's perfectly ok for them.
ALSO
Trans people are not in every way indistinguishable from cis people.

To me, it really is irrelevant in damn near most aspects of life. Live your life. You be you. Totally ok. Feel comfortable in your own skin. But... there ARE times when it is relevant. Sports is one of those few. (as an aside, dating/relationships is one of the few others. It's not transphobic to not be interested in a trans woman. Some of the extremists claim it is but... it's not.)

(also an aside, i'm new to this board, and it's nice to be able to have an actual conversation about this and be able to speak freely without fear of getting banned or screamed down. Other communities absolutely toxic with these kinds of talks.)

Transgenderism is based on trash science and always has been. The only reason this stuff is accepted is that it gives the political class another group to pander to, gives the medical community ways to make money and gives the weirdos in the late stage society we live in a way to spread their nonsense and degeneracy.

 

[Grimalkin]

They had a trans category at a recent swim meet I watched a video about and the trans refused to enter still entering as women instead. This is the issue,society at large is fairly willing to be reasonable but the trans people continue to refuse to be.

Except that expecting trans people to be reasonable is itself unreasonable, that's like expecting that a bipolar individual in the throes of mania is going to be reasonable. The major problem is that society keep mislabelling these people as trans when what they're really dealing with are narcissists.

 

[evilchumlee]

Transgenderism is based on trash science and always has been. The only reason this stuff is accepted is that it gives the political class another group to pander to, gives the medical community ways to make money and gives the weirdos in the late stage society we live in a way to spread their nonsense and degeneracy.

I wouldn't agree with that at all, but I would agree that transgenderism is a mental illness... I don't know why we need to deny that, but also it seems like the treatment for it is to just... let people dress/act how they want.

What it shouldn't do is give anyone special privilege's.

If you were born a man and feel like you need to live as a woman? Who are any of us to stop you? Live your life.

You just... also can't expect other people to pander to you, agree with you, or take part in it with you.

For example, i'll use whatever pronouns you want if you ask me, because i'm not an asshole. Whatever, that's what you want to be called, that's fine. I also might slip occasionally because i've been on this planet for 38 years and this pronoun thing has been like, two years and I don't even know anyone in the real world who does pronoun stuff. But... whatever. That's fine, I will. It's *ALSO* ok if people don't.

The world would be a better place if everyone could just not be an asshole, like all around. Let people do what they do and don't force other people to do what you want. That's all. It should be so simple.

 

[DarthOne]

I wouldn't agree with that at all, but I would agree that transgenderism is a mental illness... I don't know why we need to deny that, but also it seems like the treatment for it is to just... let people dress/act how they want.

What it shouldn't do is give anyone special privilege's.

If you were born a man and feel like you need to live as a woman? Who are any of us to stop you? Live your life.

You just... also can't expect other people to pander to you, agree with you, or take part in it with you.

For example, i'll use whatever pronouns you want if you ask me, because i'm not an asshole. Whatever, that's what you want to be called, that's fine. I also might slip occasionally because i've been on this planet for 38 years and this pronoun thing has been like, two years and I don't even know anyone in the real world who does pronoun stuff. But... whatever. That's fine, I will. It's *ALSO* ok if people don't.

The world would be a better place if everyone could just not be an asshole, like all around. Let people do what they do and don't force other people to do what you want. That's all. It should be so simple.

We don’t give people with anorexia surgery to get rid of their fat. Why should we give surgery to people who think they can become the opposite sex?

Never mind that a lot of them who do get surgery regret it and have even said that they were misled or pressured into it by doctors and therapists.

 

[evilchumlee]

We don’t give people with anorexia surgery to get rid of their fat. Why should we give surgery to people who think they can become the opposite sex?

Never mind that a lot of them who do get surgery regret it and have even said that they were misled or pressured into it by doctors and therapists.

Those two things are not the same. That's quite the false equivalency.

Why should we give people surgery to "change their sex"? Because they want to? And we can?

I do agree that it shouldn't be something to be done lightly and we need to get over this weird society thing of trying to push it on people, absolutely. But if somebody wants it done? Doesn't hurt anyone else, none of my business to tell them no.

 

[Grimalkin]

The world would be a better place if everyone could just not be an asshole, like all around. Let people do what they do and don't force other people to do what you want. That's all. It should be so simple.

Nah, the world would be a better place if society were more discerning and selective, we shouldn't tolerate this shit. Once you give them an inch they'll always be trying to take a mile, and in general giving them what they want is just a euphemism for giving up on treating their illness.

Those two things are not the same. That's quite the false equivalency.

Why should we give people surgery to "change their sex"? Because they want to? And we can?

I do agree that it shouldn't be something to be done lightly and we need to get over this weird society thing of trying to push it on people, absolutely. But if somebody wants it done? Doesn't hurt anyone else, none of my business to tell them no.

Those two are almost exactly the same, they're both cases of medically sanctioned self harm for the purpose of forcibly matching your body to your distorted ideal of what it should be.

It's not a fucking treatment for the problem, it's just giving up on them. This isn't compassion, it's apathy dressed up as compassion.

 

[evilchumlee]

Nah, the world would be a better place if society were more discerning and selective, we shouldn't tolerate this shit. Once you give them an inch they'll always be trying to take a mile, and in general giving them what they want is just a euphemism for giving up on treating their illness.

That's a dangerous precedent. "Don't tolerate this shit."

Who decides what this shit is we do or do not tolerate? Where do we draw the line?

Trans people can't be tolerated? What about gay people? Or, like, I don't know, the Jews.

"Look what happened after we freed the blacks from slavery. Give them inch, they try to take a mile."

Where's the acceptable line?