To Hell With Space Elves: Misanthropy in Science Fiction

Urabrask Revealed

Let them go.
Founder
Sheena 5 by Stephen Baxter has an absolutely hilarious subversion of this, where the 'alien' bioengineered uplifted squids disagree with humanity about what humans supposedly did to oppress their ancestors.
I don't get it? Reads like the usual tripe of overeducated leftards whining about how Humanity deserves extinction for daring to use animals to try and preserve their species, followed by the same animals carrying out a genocide by accident.

Also, this is why any uplift should include modifications that make the uplifts as fanatically loyal to humanity as dogs are.
 
Last edited:

ATP

Well-known member
I don't get it? Reads like the usual tripe of overeducated leftards whining about how Humanity deserves extinction for daring to use animals to try and preserve their species, followed by the same animals carrying out a genocide by accident.

Also, this is why any uplift should include modifications that make the uplifts as fanatically loyal to humanity as dogs are.

Yes."Glory to Mankind" or not uplift.
And even better...glory to @ATP !
 

Doomsought

Well-known member
Also, this is why any uplift should include modifications that make the uplifts as fanatically loyal to humanity as dogs are.
Any artificial person, organic or otherwise, should be given the same social-emotional needs as humans so that the same techniques used to keep humans from killing each other would work on them. It is just more intuitive that way.
 

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
Any artificial person, organic or otherwise, should be given the same social-emotional needs as humans so that the same techniques used to keep humans from killing each other would work on them. It is just more intuitive that way.

Humans have stopped killing each other? I must've slept longer than I thought...
 

ATP

Well-known member
Humans have stopped killing each other? I must've slept longer than I thought...
No,techniques which preventad us so far from eradicating most of humanity.
If we take palestinian-Israel conflict as example:

Killing few hundred palestinians or jews do not count.Becouse thanks to said techniques most would still survive.You do not drob tactical nukes on them,right? And Hezbollah used only 10% of their rockets.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
I don't get it? Reads like the usual tripe of overeducated leftards whining about how Humanity deserves extinction for daring to use animals to try and preserve their species, followed by the same animals carrying out a genocide by accident.
Which is the whole point. The squids don't give a crap about their ancestors being sent on a suicide mission or humanity's warring nature which is what the whiners expected them to care about, they hyperfocused on their species' survival and took practical actions. Humans ended up a cautionary tale to them, but for entirely different reasons than we'd have expected, with our self-destructive sins not being 'slavery and war' but 'not colonizing ourselves rather than sending our biots to do it for us, giving ourselves unlimited resources and the ability to survive our wars by having self-sustaining populations of ourselves out of weapon range.'
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
You say that like it's a bad thing. :LOL:
>heard several centuries from now on the bridge of a human starship

"We've finally found it! The civilization of the green-skinned space babes, whose hypothetical possibility has motivated generations of engineers and scientists towards space, the El Dorado of our time! Now, we are finally establishing communications..."


Is there more to the sheena-5 story or just that one section/page? Was kinda interested in a part 2-3-4 or so.
Sentient cephalopods named sheena also show up in Manifold Time, but that's just reusing the same general concept in a different universe as demonstrated by the destruction of said universe, squids and all, by the time-traveling distant descendants of humanity (or possibly of said squids) in an attempt at creating new universes to escape the Heat Death.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
SV up to their usual shenanigans.
Functionality said:
vktjLfc_d.webp
Jacky2734 said:
Ugh, I hate this one. The whole "Aliens judging humanity based on a small snapshot" thing screams of arogant self-righteousness and honestly sounds more like an elaborate land grab scheme on a cosmic scale.

Seriously is what the aliens are doing really that different from, say, a territorial governor authorizing the extermination of an indigenous people who have a more legitimate claim to the land so that settlers will be "safe to come to the area without fear of the dangerous savages"?
Sir Bill said:
Also the fact that he feels comfortable in committing a ton of genocide. 5306 planets worth of people. Because that one randomass person on each planet put in a position to complete that final test didn't meet the Auditor's standards. These Auditors have done a lot more mass slaughter than we could ever dream of.

But then, maybe this particular one is just a traumatized asshole trying to pretend that the test is righteous due to the trauma that he experienced after apparently getting his species exterminated by failing the test.

They have a recruitment pitch of, "Live as a god, see fantastic places, strange locales, meet diverse and interesting cultures and kill them all!" I don't exactly trust their moral standards for a lot of reasons.
 

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
Wait, who am I supposed to agree with here? Because the guys reacting to the comic have excellent points. This type of story is usually a shitty self-insert anyway, the writer's way of ranting about their pet political issue ("humanity doesn't deserve to live because we're killing Dolphins" or whatever). It's simple misanthropy.
 

The Whispering Monk

Well-known member
Osaul
In this case it only looked at how well the species cared for their 'lowest'. So basically, "how do they look after themselves?" I can get that as a measure, b/c if a species treats their own this way, they're not gonna give a crap about other species.

I don't agree with the obvious genocide...that basically accepts the idea of the irredeemable.

I get the comic using extremes to make comments on the society though.

That's the point that the idiots on SV refuse to acknowledge. They're getting offended instead of actually addressing the critique and message of the strip. In fact, they are practicing EXACTLY the behavior that the strip critiques.
 

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
In this case it only looked at how well the species cared for their 'lowest'. So basically, "how do they look after themselves?" I can get that as a measure, b/c if a species treats their own this way, they're not gonna give a crap about other species.

I'm not sure I agree that it's a great measure. It's way too context-dependent and betrays the authors anthropocentric bias (and by proxy his disinterest in and rejection of genuine science fiction in favor of a pseudo-religious woke parable).

But furthermore, the drivel about how humanity is the worst at treating its weakest in the galaxy is simply "see, humans are not only evil, but they're especially and uniquely evil in the whole universe!" LIke, homeless shelters are a thing, hot soup kitchens are a thing, volunteers are a thing, homeless people that can comfortably feed themselves on basic begging are a thing, and social programs are a thing. Western civilization doesn't treat its weakest THAT badly (although, naturally, it's no picnic for them).

Edit: I realize that I come off as very privileged, and I wouldn't trade places with a homeless person for anything. But you'd never convince me that the treatment homeless people receive in the western world is the worst out of all possible treatments in the galaxy.

I don't agree with the obvious genocide...that basically accepts the idea of the irredeemable.

It also makes them raging hypocrites. "We don't like that your species sometimes beats up the weakest members of it's society and gives them a hard time, so, being the weakest member of galactic society, we're going to GENOCIDE you to the last specimen."

But of course, talking with leftists about hypocrisy is as pointless as talking with a narcissist about selflessness, they're simply not wired to comprehend what's wrong with their way of thinking and why it's horrible and cruel.

I get the comic using extremes to make comments on the society though.

Truly good social commentary is subtle and makes one consider the presented ideas seriously, even without being predisposed to agreeing with them. This comic? This is just for masturbation among like-minded peers (like 90% of modern fiction), plain and simple.

That's the point that the idiots on SV refuse to acknowledge. They're getting offended instead of actually addressing the critique and message of the strip. In fact, they are practicing EXACTLY the behavior that the strip critiques.

They're practicing the behavior of extreme corruption, abuse etc by... pointing out that the story doesn't make sense, that the criticism as presented is without merit? Huh. No, we'd have to disagree here.
 

What's the sitch?

Well-known member
I probably would have shot myself, not out of any real love for my fellow man at large but I have no reason to believe the genocidal , hypocritical entity is being truthful about its "deal" and so I would do it as a final fuck you. It comes across as a demon trying to tempt people and then backstabbing them anyway after they have debased themselves.

Also the idea of being audited by "people" that themselves failed the test is utter bullshit.Do other auditors do better jobs of finding successful"last chance" targets, this guy almost seems like he is intentionally only seeking the absolute worst scenarios of the bottom % and them applying it to everyone, almost as if due to his own regrets of his own failings he has to fail everyone else, because then he wasn't so bad himself. The whole system seems set up for failure when its graded by people that would sell everyone out for ultimate power.
 
Last edited:

GoldRanger

May the power protect you
Founder
I probably would have shot myself, not out of any real love for my fellow man at large but I have no reason to believe the genocidal , hypocritical entity is being truthful about its "deal" and so I would do it as a final fuck you. It comes across as a demon trying to tempt people and then backstabbing them anyway after they have debased themselves.

Also the idea of being audited by "people" that themselves failed the test is utter bullshit.Do other auditors do better jobs of finding successful"last chance" targets, this guy almost seems like he is intentionally only seeking the absolute worst scenarios of the bottom % and them applying it to everyone, almost as if due to his own regrets of his own failings he has to fail everyone else, because then he wasn't so bad himself. The whole system seems set up for failure when its graded by people that would sell everyone out for ultimate power.
It just reads like the alien guy himself is corrupt as fuck, and gets off on condemning entire civilizations for his own ego. So, basically, the average woke leftist writing out their wish fulfillment, disguised as a moral parable, disguised as a scifi story.
 

Jouaint

Well-known member
No sapient species could pass the test, the mere existence of conflicts of interest combined with entropy guarantee that it is impossible.
Honestly it kind of reminds me of Illegal Aliens by Nick Pollotta and Phil Foglio were an alien ship shows up, scoops up a random gang off the streets of New York to participate in a test to decide the fate of Mankind. This is all being live broadcast to the entire world. We find out that the aliens are actually this gang of sociopathic pranksters who travel the galaxy looking for primitive planets which they then make participate in arbitrary and impossible tests with the primitives being told if they fail the tests they will be wiped out. This of course causes mass chaos and destruction which the gang laughs at, with at least one species having been rendered extinct because of their actions.

Of course in that story the gang manages to escape the test, kill most of the crew, and hold the ship hostage.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
Or Timothy Zahn's Warhorse. The aliens pride themselves on being more environmentally friendly than humanity, made easy with their non-polluting self-replicating biotechnology. While the protagonists are Star Trekking around on a jointly-crewed ship, a sideplot involves a bunch of people put out of work by introduced alien technology and infuriated by obnoxious alien smarm pulling off an elaborate heist of a FTL-capable bioship calve and becoming pirates.
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
idk, why don't you ask Zor from SB? That guy loves masturbating to scenarios where aliens sharing his exact believes come to Earth to force everyone to obey their ideology.
I thought he was the bureaucracy fetishist.
Zor said:
Zor said:
In this scenario, you are given a vision of humanity's role in the year 5,000 CE. Good news, we're not extinct. We have been subsumed into an interstellar Federation taking up a good chunk of the Orion Arm. Inside that federation are not famed as it's greatest Soldiers, Scientists, Engineers, Explorers or Merchants. The Niche which mankind has carved itself in the greater galaxy is one we today would often not romanticize.

In short we'll start with a fairy traditional human living in an arcology with her daughter. Every working day she gets on a Pin Stripe suit, tie with double Winsor knot and Bowler Hat as neat as possible with a badge on her and gets into a maglev train for work, one of the Federation's numerous governmental departments. When she arrives she shows her badge takes her place at a desk while her supervisor makes a visit. Said supervisor is a Human Mindstate uploaded from a human which died six centuries prior. She spends the rest of her day dealing with a variety of creatures which have need to deal to visit the Ministry of Civil Infrastructure, referring them to other people in the huge labyrinth of departments, sub-departments, special offices and similar as well as dealing with specific cases in the perview of her position. All of whom are overwhelmingly staffed by humans, or at least human derived spin offs. She has cybernetic implants which allows her to rapidly sort through the electronic paperwork sent her way. She spends her break time with various other civil servants similarly dressed eating at various resteraunts. Some of them are are a bit more complicated than others. For example one of her coworkers would be described by modern humans as being a Mermaid who's suit is waterproof and needs a wheelchair to hang our with her landbased friends when not dealing with the various aquatic races of the Federation. Others are operatives which go out on inspections. Even so they all do their work quite well like our lady. At the end of her shift she goes home she spends time with her daughter who at seven dreams of a desk job helping people out in one of the ministries and she aspires, like half of the extended and diversified family of humanity, to become a Bureaucrat like her mother and father before her, her grandparents, great grandparents and so forth.

What would you say of this future?

Zor
 

Bassoe

Well-known member
This seems largely universal, I've never actually seen a story from a non-wokeist ideological perspective of 'and then the superior being sided with us'.
Having seen SCP-3625, an Artificial Intelligence built by alt-rightists who successfully programmed it to follow their ideological beliefs and fortunately for everyone else, methods making it completely useless and unable to actually harm anyone as opposed to mass-producing terminators or otherwise actually posing a threat, I stand corrected.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top