The War in Afghanistan

[Circle of Willis]

AND yet, how much do you want to bet that it'll all be Orange Man Bad's fault and that the TOTALLY SECURE 2022 elections will be in favor of the democrats?

...look, as much as I'd like to believe otherwise and am determined to keep 'fighting' to the end, at this point I won't be surprised if the MSM/Deep State finds a way to avoid from smelling like shit. Probably via another COVID incident or something.

I'm sure the Dems will try to fortify 2022 and 2024 like they're building the walls of Constantinople, but I don't believe they can spin their way out of this, especially not if the Taliban takes any American/other foreign stragglers hostage after 8/31 and the negotiations for their return drag on into next year, to say nothing of the odds that they'd parade these hostages in front of a camera from time to time to really rub salt in Uncle Sam's newest wound. Biden & friends' damage-control & blame game efforts have been so spotty and all-over-the-place that it's probably not even all that convincing to the most brainless NPCs, and the situation is dire enough that the MSM has to at least take the occasional swing at them.

As Abe Lincoln would say, 'You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.'

I'll just assume that any domestic crisis, particularly anything involving violent supposed far-right actors, is a glowop between now & whenever this crisis stops making the headlines, engineered with the specific purpose of trying to distract Americans from the slow-rolling catastrophe in Kabul. We already know the Proud Boys, to use an example that's fighting Antifa in Portland right now, have been pretty thoroughly infiltrated by the FBI and their leader was an informant in the past.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I'm sure the Dems will try to fortify 2022 and 2024 like they're building the walls of Constantinople, but I don't believe they can spin their way out of this, especially not if the Taliban takes any American/other foreign stragglers hostage after 8/31 and the negotiations for their return drag on into next year, to say nothing of the odds that they'd parade these hostages in front of a camera from time to time to really rub salt in Uncle Sam's newest wound. Biden & friends' damage-control & blame game efforts have been so spotty and all-over-the-place that it's probably not even all that convincing to the most brainless NPCs, and the situation is dire enough that the MSM has to at least take the occasional swing at them.

As Abe Lincoln would say, 'You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.'

I'll just assume that any domestic crisis, particularly anything involving violent supposed far-right actors, is a glowop between now & whenever this crisis stops making the headlines, engineered with the specific purpose of trying to distract Americans from the slow-rolling catastrophe in Kabul. We already know the Proud Boys, to use an example that's fighting Antifa in Portland right now, have been pretty thoroughly infiltrated by the FBI and their leader was an informant in the past.

If there is an extended hostage crises, the Biden Administration is toast. And so is Harris. They will not win re-election. And if it does extend into the midterms, the Democrats are probably going to suffer heavy losses.

 

[Zachowon]

Wasn't it a hostage crisis that helped Reagan?

 

[King Arts]

They're part of the reason this all went to hell in the first place. First they allowed their government to perpetuate fraud against our people through theft and corruption. Then their military folded in less than two weeks against the Taliban, surrendering weapons and gear that we'd left for them to use in their defense (not to mention paying their salaries). And finally, when it came time for the Americans to leave because the ANA had abandoned the fight, these people didn't make sure that Americans who had basically subsidized their existence, gave them freedom, weapons, and resources for 20 years were the first to get onboard.

No, it was instead every man for himself. And such was their cowardice that they'd rather cling to a US military jet during take-off rather than stand and fight for their people, their culture, their homes, and their freedom.

The Afghan people are a disgrace to the human race. May they rot in their shithole for the rest of time.

I don't know why people keep spreading the same neo con lies again and again. Shieldwife already said it, we weren't the good guys bringing "freedom" to the Afghanis, we were foreign invaders who set up our own puppet regime, and the enforcers of that regime aka the Afghan Army and Police were made up of the scum of Afghanistan homosexual pedophiles, drug addicts, and other corrupt incompetents. The reason our collaborators were trash is because the "honorable" Afghans were against us from the start the Afghans that were fighting for their people, culture, homes, and freedom were the insurgents that were shooting at us, you won't be able to get many good honorable men to be a quisling for a foreign occupier. If China somehow occupied America and the only resistance against them was the far right, then the American's that are against the far right would be traitorous scum.

 

[Zachowon]

I don't know why people keep spreading the same neo con lies again and again. Shieldwife already said it, we weren't the good guys bringing "freedom" to the Afghanis, we were foreign invaders who set up our own puppet regime, and the enforcers of that regime aka the Afghan Army and Police were made up of the scum of Afghanistan homosexual pedophiles, drug addicts, and other corrupt incompetents. The reason our collaborators were trash is because the "honorable" Afghans were against us from the start the Afghans that were fighting for their people, culture, homes, and freedom were the insurgents that were shooting at us, you won't be able to get many good honorable men to be a quisling for a foreign occupier. If China somehow occupied America and the only resistance against them was the far right, then the American's that are against the far right would be traitorous scum.

Yeah no.
The US would not be invaded without the invaders giving up the fight.
It wouldn't matter how many give up, there is such a large amount if people who would fight, it would be to much if a deal breaker.
This is not equivalent to China invading America

 

[King Arts]

Yeah no.
The US would not be invaded without the invaders giving up the fight.
It wouldn't matter how many give up, there is such a large amount if people who would fight, it would be to much if a deal breaker.
This is not equivalent to China invading America

Obviously no one can currently invade America because it has the strongest Army in the world. I was saying if someone DID destroy the army and any of our allies that tried to stop it then the civilians people couldn't fight off the enemy army on the open field, and most surrendered.

 

[Zachowon]

Obviously no one can currently invade America because it has the strongest Army in the world. I was saying if someone DID destroy the army and any of our allies that tried to stop it then the civilians people couldn't fight off the enemy army on the open field, and most surrendered.

It would be an entirely different scenario then what is currently going on in A-stan

 

[Circle of Willis]

Wasn't it a hostage crisis that helped Reagan?

Partially, yeah. I think it was more-so the general perception at home that America had become a joke between Vietnam, Watergate, the oil crisis & now that Iran hostage crisis, plus Carter's failed attempt to rescue those hostages (Eagle Claw). As Carter himself said, his America was one that was suffering a 'crisis of confidence' - one that I think can be said of America nowadays too, on top of the general malaise that's been growing only more pronounced since the 2008 recession.

Trump's already bashing Biden for this disaster and things haven't even gotten to the hostage crisis point yet so I guess we'll have to see how that develops in the coming weeks. But it does absolutely feel like Biden's 'return to normalcy' amounts to a speedrun of the Carter years.

 

[The Original Sixth]

I don't know why people keep spreading the same neo con lies again and again. Shieldwife already said it, we weren't the good guys bringing "freedom" to the Afghanis, we were foreign invaders who set up our own puppet regime, and the enforcers of that regime aka the Afghan Army and Police were made up of the scum of Afghanistan homosexual pedophiles, drug addicts, and other corrupt incompetents.

It's not a lie, it's just not entirely coherent with reality.

America's largest problem is that no matter whose in charge, there is a split between using liberal and realist policies. Bush, for example, invaded Afghanistan to get at al Qaeda. Instead of cleaning them out and leaving, which would have been the pragmatic thing to do--or at least just putting Americans in charge, he instead tried to make Afghanistan into a functional state.

The problem was that those who were the most willing to work with the Americans were in some cases, complete and utter degenerates. So instead of even having a chance at a stable, democratic society, we instead got a very corrupt state that was outright extorting its own people and stealing all the money we sent them. The Afghan government was far from a puppet state. It if had been, we'd actually have been better off.

If China somehow occupied America and the only resistance against them was the far right, then the American's that are against the far right would be traitorous scum.

No, China wouldn't make that mistake. Because China sticks to a very realist policy. Their puppets would be actual puppets. They're not going to make the mistake of giving regional puppets autonomy. They'd run it like they ran their own country.

 

[BlackDragon98]

The problem was that those who were the most willing to work with the Americans were in some cases, complete and utter degenerates. So instead of even having a chance at a stable, democratic society, we instead got a very corrupt state that was outright extorting its own people and stealing all the money we sent them. The Afghan government was far from a puppet state. It if had been, we'd actually have been better off.

After the Invasion of Italy and Sicily in 1943, the Allied forces (mostly US) had to put new people in power to replace the Fascist leadership. So they went thorough the prisons and jails because that's where they thought the Fascists had put their opposition.

They ended up putting a load of Italian and Sicilian Mafia bosses in charge. It took decades for the new Italian gov. to root them out and even those efforts weren't completely successful.

The US is shit at nationbuilding and they've never improved.

Afghanistan was a lost cause as soon as the US put nationbuilding on the menu.

 

[The Original Sixth]

After the Invasion of Italy and Sicily in 1943, the Allied forces (mostly US) had to put new people in power to replace the Fascist leadership. So they went thorough the prisons and jails because that's where they thought the Fascists had put their opposition.

They ended up putting a load of Italian and Sicilian Mafia bosses in charge. It took decades for the new Italian gov. to root them out and even those efforts weren't completely successful.

The US is shit at nationbuilding and they've never improved.

Afghanistan was a lost cause as soon as the US put nationbuilding on the menu.

No, because you have other examples like Germany and Japan. The US's main issue is not that they try nation building, it's that we always go halfway. Instead of implementing our own people to see that there is an actual transition, the US instead has this habit of handing a new system to the locals and expecting that the people they pick are trustworthy or care about the new system. With the Germans and the Japanese, that worked.

 

[King Arts]

It's not a lie, it's just not entirely coherent with reality.

America's largest problem is that no matter whose in charge, there is a split between using liberal and realist policies. Bush, for example, invaded Afghanistan to get at al Qaeda. Instead of cleaning them out and leaving, which would have been the pragmatic thing to do--or at least just putting Americans in charge, he instead tried to make Afghanistan into a functional state.

The problem was that those who were the most willing to work with the Americans were in some cases, complete and utter degenerates. So instead of even having a chance at a stable, democratic society, we instead got a very corrupt state that was outright extorting its own people and stealing all the money we sent them. The Afghan government was far from a puppet state. It if had been, we'd actually have been better off.

No the Afghan government was a puppet, we supplied them with a lot, Fox news even did a little bit about, how we were trying to give classes to boys about toxic masculinity. Trying to put our culture over there and change their local ways. You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between a puppet (which has some local autonomy) and being under the direct control of a foreign power as a conquered province or colony. If we ruled Afghanistan ourselves and had a military general be governor then we would have been better off, and probably the Afghans as well. There would have still been Taliban and other Afghanis fighting because they want their freedom, but our government would have been run more competently and less corrupt, and it's possible that eventually the Taliban and other Afghanis would just submit.

No, China wouldn't make that mistake. Because China sticks to a very realist policy. Their puppets would be actual puppets. They're not going to make the mistake of giving regional puppets autonomy. They'd run it like they ran their own country.

That depends. The Chinese allow North Korea it's puppet state, a degree of autonomy. If China invaded America how they would run it would depend on what they want. If they think they can hold it and make it profitable they will rule it directly, if however they don't/can't hold on to it, they will make a puppet government and put one groups of locals in charge to cause infighting and weaken America heavily.

 

[Zachowon]

After the Invasion of Italy and Sicily in 1943, the Allied forces (mostly US) had to put new people in power to replace the Fascist leadership. So they went thorough the prisons and jails because that's where they thought the Fascists had put their opposition.

They ended up putting a load of Italian and Sicilian Mafia bosses in charge. It took decades for the new Italian gov. to root them out and even those efforts weren't completely successful.

The US is shit at nationbuilding and they've never improved.

Afghanistan was a lost cause as soon as the US put nationbuilding on the menu.

Uh.
Japan, Korea.

 

[King Arts]

Uh.
Japan, Korea.

With Japan, and Germany while people lie and try to hid the fact many of the people in the new government were the same ones from the Nazis, or Imperial Japanese government. The more you get rid of the old guys the more pushback it will cause, and I think you'd be screaming to high heaven if our president back in the day let Taliban members be in charge in Afghanistan. As for Korea, it's only relatively recently that it became prosperous and free, for decades after the Korean war it was a dictatorship.

 

[The Original Sixth]

No the Afghan government was a puppet, we supplied them with a lot, Fox news even did a little bit about, how we were trying to give classes to boys about toxic masculinity. Trying to put our culture over there and change their local ways. You seem to be misunderstanding the difference between a puppet (which has some local autonomy) and being under the direct control of a foreign power as a conquered province or colony. If we ruled Afghanistan ourselves and had a military general be governor then we would have been better off, and probably the Afghans as well. There would have still been Taliban and other Afghanis fighting because they want their freedom, but our government would have been run more competently and less corrupt, and it's possible that eventually the Taliban and other Afghanis would just submit.

Pushing some aspects of our culture on them is not what I'd call a puppet state. I'd call it more of a leech. The US was less interested in supporting their government than they were.

That depends. The Chinese allow North Korea it's puppet state, a degree of autonomy. If China invaded America how they would run it would depend on what they want. If they think they can hold it and make it profitable they will rule it directly, if however they don't/can't hold on to it, they will make a puppet government and put one groups of locals in charge to cause infighting and weaken America heavily.

North Korea was a puppet state, but I do not think that could apply now or for the past decade or so. We saw that under Trump, the Chinese really had no effective way of reigning in their government.

 

[Circle of Willis]

Hostage crises? Maybe? I expect that the Taliban will extract some concessions from Biden in exchange for their safe passage, but they'll try and put a kinder face on it. That said, Biden brought this upon himself. By trying to damage control the fallout of the coldhearted nature of his pullout, he promised they'd get their allied Afghans out. And so every sack of shit Afghan within a hundred miles decided that meant them and swarmed the airport.

And that has made things worse. Because they're clogging up the roads, the checkpoints, and the airport to save their own damn hides instead of letting Americans out first. And that's agitating the Taliban, because I imagine what they agreed to was letting the Americans and maybe a few thousand Afghans out. Instead tens of thousands of Afghans are fleeing the country and only a few thousand Americans are getting out.

At this point, it may actually be faster if the American military just left. Without our presence at the airport, the frenzy of Afghans will evaporate and it'll be easier for the Taliban to process the Americans and send them out. The problem is that we aren't sure we can trust the Taliban. But with the way things are going, we may not have any better options without trying to retake Kabul.

Missed this from the previous page, but yeah, it seems the Taliban are actually (unintentionally or otherwise) already helping the US evacuation effort by barring Afghans from the airport & saying that they'll only allow foreigners to leave the country. So at the very least the troops there can be reasonably sure that anyone who makes it through the TB checkpoints from now on (with or without harassment) is another American or foreign citizen.

 

[Aldarion]

You all are idiotic if the US Army allowed them to leave without heavy looking into tjem.

Considering CIA's and general US track record, that is precisely what I expect happened.

It's not a lie, it's just not entirely coherent with reality.

America's largest problem is that no matter whose in charge, there is a split between using liberal and realist policies. Bush, for example, invaded Afghanistan to get at al Qaeda. Instead of cleaning them out and leaving, which would have been the pragmatic thing to do--or at least just putting Americans in charge, he instead tried to make Afghanistan into a functional state.

The problem was that those who were the most willing to work with the Americans were in some cases, complete and utter degenerates. So instead of even having a chance at a stable, democratic society, we instead got a very corrupt state that was outright extorting its own people and stealing all the money we sent them. The Afghan government was far from a puppet state. It if had been, we'd actually have been better off.

No, China wouldn't make that mistake. Because China sticks to a very realist policy. Their puppets would be actual puppets. They're not going to make the mistake of giving regional puppets autonomy. They'd run it like they ran their own country.

Basically, the main problem is that the US believe their own BS.

 

[The Original Sixth]

Missed this from the previous page, but yeah, it seems the Taliban are actually (unintentionally or otherwise) already helping the US evacuation effort by barring Afghans from the airport & saying that they'll only allow foreigners to leave the country. So at the very least the troops there can be reasonably sure that anyone who makes it through the TB checkpoints from now on (with or without harassment) is another American or foreign citizen.

That's a start. I wouldn't be surprised if Biden was involved in asking them for that. I know I'd be begging them to keep those idiots away from the airport. Funny note? Biden is over two hours later to his press conference. And it's switched over to her press secretary, who is now closing in on being 20 minutes late. Methinks that Biden is getting some really bad news.

 

[Zachowon]

With Japan, and Germany while people lie and try to hid the fact many of the people in the new government were the same ones from the Nazis, or Imperial Japanese government. The more you get rid of the old guys the more pushback it will cause, and I think you'd be screaming to high heaven if our president back in the day let Taliban members be in charge in Afghanistan. As for Korea, it's only relatively recently that it became prosperous and free, for decades after the Korean war it was a dictatorship.

Korea was somewhat of a dictatorship, but was still relatively free and was using those elected into power, and they eventually worked it out in about 20 years, with constant war on the horizon.

Considering CIA's and general US track record, that is precisely what I expect happened.



Basically, the main problem is that the US believe their own BS.

We are making SURE that shit doesn't happen.
There are more generals then Milley

 

[PsihoKekec]

There are more generals then Milley

Anyone with stars is well versed in the dark arts of political prostitution, for the cause of post-retirement payout.