The War in Afghanistan

[Marduk]

Would come as a hell of a shock to all involved that the DAB was a State.

Part of the government estate specifically. As the government owns it. While Taliban are not the recognized government. Hence they get no access to government estate in foreign countries. Makes sense?

You’ve already answered that when you conceded the DAB was a nationalized entity; the money belongs to the Afghan people as I’ve said repeatedly now.

That's just one way to see it.
But who is the internationally recognized representative of the Afghan people?

Then there is the fact that those who put the money on that account in the first place, placed it there with the honest conviction that the account is not owned by the Taliban.

 

[Arch Dornan]

Or, you know, we could release the billions we seized of Afghan money that would be more than sufficient to end this crisis? We essentially emptied their bank account and are now acting like they are parasites for asking us to help them not to starve to death.

Pffft. That's not how the financial system rigged by the globalists and corrupt bozos work. They're gonna fuck them financially like they do everyone else.

 

[WolfBear]

Taliban's Arrest Of Ethnic Uzbek Commander Sparks Clashes In Northern Afghanistan

Tensions are high in northern Afghanistan as online videos show Taliban fighters seizing villages and farmland from ethnic Turkmen and Uzbeks. Now violence has broken out in a provincial capital in northern Afghanistan after a local Taliban commander -- an ethnic Uzbek -- was arrested.

www.rferl.org

Afghanistan’s economy is collapsing, the US can help stop it

Giving the Afghan Central Bank limited, monitored access to its national reserves can save Afghan lives.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[History Learner]

Part of the government estate specifically. As the government owns it. While Taliban are not the recognized government. Hence they get no access to government estate in foreign countries. Makes sense?

No, largely because its a goal post shift you've now invented whole cloth in order to attempt to justify an argument that is increasingly contradictory.

That's just one way to see it.
But who is the internationally recognized representative of the Afghan people?

Then there is the fact that those who put the money on that account in the first place, placed it there with the honest conviction that the account is not owned by the Taliban.

Ah, so international standards are your basis of judging whether or not the Afghan people have a right to the money they placed in their accounts? Might want to actually do some digging in what the international community is saying about those funds.

 

[Marduk]

No, largely because its a goal post shift you've now invented whole cloth in order to attempt to justify an argument that is increasingly contradictory.

Which part did i invent?
That Central Bank of Afghanistan is owned by the Government of Afghanistan, or the part that the Taliban are not recognized as Government of Afghanistan?
Why should the Taliban get access to money they don't own?

Ah, so international standards are your basis of judging whether or not the Afghan people have a right to the money they placed in their accounts? Might want to actually do some digging in what the international community is saying about those funds.

Its a central bank, central banks don't hold personal accounts of random people generally. The billions in question are the reserve, mostly in assets, not cash, which belongs to the government and are meant for large scale fiscal policy moves, and so far the Taliban aren't officially recognized as the legitimate government even by the countries most friendly to them.

Might want to actually do some digging in what the international community is saying about those funds.

No one cares what random activists, diplomats and journos say. If the international community wants to make a real argument they need to start officially recognizing the Taliban government as legitimate government of Afghanistan.

 

[Captain X]

This seeming attempt to guilt people into paying the Taliban for the supposed benefit of the Afghan people reminds me a lot of the attempt to guilt libertarians into supporting BLM and antifa, and it's just as stupid.

 

[History Learner]

Which part did i invent?
That Central Bank of Afghanistan is owned by the Government of Afghanistan, or the part that the Taliban are not recognized as Government of Afghanistan?
Why should the Taliban get access to money they don't own?

This whole obstructionist argument, which is all it is because you can't actually debate the merits directly for pretty obvious moral reasons, after you previously conceded the money was 100% State owned. Your whole schtick falls apart on this when you made that argument, because the State of Afghanistan did not suddenly cease to exist in August of 2021 and exactly no Government in the World claims that; the issue is whether the Taliban are the existing Government of that State.

Since you conceded the DAB assets are State Property, that money belongs to the people of Afghanistan and should be released upon those merits.

Its a central bank, central banks don't hold personal account money of random people. The billions in question are the reserve, mostly in assets, not cash, which belongs to the government and are meant for large scale fiscal policy moves, and Taliban aren't officially recognized as the legitimate government even by the countries most friendly to them.

Good thing we are in complete agreement that money belongs to the people of Afghanistan as a whole. Now since you've fortunately pinned yourself down into the international standards argument, let's dig into that shall we? The EU, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, China and Iran are among the many international entities/countries calling for the unfreezing of Afghan assets frozen back in August. The international consensus is out on whether to recognize the Taliban as the Government, but there is no question at all about releasing their assets. You, and the psychopaths in the U.S. State Department, are alone in this regard.

There is no ethical argument to be made against doing this, especially in the context of the EU, Russia, Saudi Arabia and others re-opening their Embassies in Kabul. The U.S. refusing to do this is simply spite at losing, and is condemning millions to starvation.

 

[History Learner]

This seeming attempt to guilt people into paying the Taliban for the supposed benefit of the Afghan people reminds me a lot of the attempt to guilt libertarians into supporting BLM and antifa, and it's just as stupid.

Good thing the overwhelming majority of people aren't sore losers willing to kill women and children. You can now do your usual play of liking a tweet with a laughing emoji, exactly as I expect you will.

Edit: All is according to plan.....

 

[Marduk]

This whole obstructionist argument, which is all it is because you can't actually debate the merits directly for pretty obvious moral reasons, after you previously conceded the money was 100% State owned. Your whole schtick falls apart on this when you made that argument, because the State of Afghanistan did not suddenly cease to exist in August of 2021 and exactly no Government in the World claims that; the issue is whether the Taliban are the existing Government of that State.

Since you conceded the DAB assets are State Property, that money belongs to the people of Afghanistan and should be released upon those merits.

>the people.
So who exactly?
You don't seem to have any argument as to Taliban being the legitimate government representing the people of Afghanistan.
Should they just load wads of cash into a plane and drop them over Kabul to whoever may be lucky to catch some?

Good thing we are in complete agreement that money belongs to the people of Afghanistan as a whole.

No, i said the government, not "the people".
Afghanistan currently does not have a recognized representative government, don't switch out words for me.

Now since you've fortunately pinned yourself down into the international standards argument, let's dig into that shall we? The EU, Uzbekistan, Pakistan, China and Iran are among the many international entities/countries calling for the unfreezing of Afghan assets frozen back in August. The international consensus is out on whether to recognize the Taliban as the Government, but there is no question at all about releasing their assets. You, and the psychopaths in the U.S. State Department, are alone in this regard.

You talk of consensus and embassies, but as i said, that's small pragmatic political moves. I ask you again about the one thing that matters - official recognition of that government.
Did Iran do that? Russia? EU? Pakistan at least? It's a similar difference as between saying random crap when drunk and putting a signature on a notarized document.

There is no ethical argument to be made against doing this, especially in the context of the EU, Russia, Saudi Arabia and others re-opening their Embassies in Kabul. The U.S. refusing to do this is simply spite at losing, and is condemning millions to starvation.

If they all care so much about the ethics of it, let them convince equally ethical Taliban to relinquish control of the country and form some kind of emergency government that at least they will recognize. All for humanitarian reasons of course.
As things are, the Taliban are holding the country's economy hostage while demanding money that isn't theirs to pass through their hands with little to no supervision.
Alternatively let them set up a new reserve for Taliban government which they don't recognize, if they care so much, 10 bn USD is affordable for all of the 3 you mentioned.
But we all know they would sooner recognize the Taliban, which would solve the impasse.

 

[Captain X]

Might I suggest that if the Taliban is unable to care for the Afghani people that they might have actually considered that before taking over the country, or, alternatively, that the Taliban is simply lying and intends to live well off the backs of others and have a laugh at their enemies actually paying them.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Might I suggest that if the Taliban is unable to care for the Afghani people that they might have actually considered that before taking over the country, or, alternatively, that the Taliban is simply lying and intends to live well off the backs of others and have a laugh at their enemies actually paying them.

Stop it! You're killing the women and children ffs!!!

 

[History Learner]

>the people.
So who exactly?
You don't seem to have any argument as to Taliban being the legitimate government representing the people of Afghanistan.
Should they just load wads of cash into a plane and drop them over Kabul to whoever may be lucky to catch some?

As I said, nothing but obstructionist arguments of no merit, you're reduced to playing word games on things that are pretty easily established and in fact you yourself already previously established. You just change as needed out of knee jerk rejectionism that fools nobody.

No, i said the government, not "the people".
Afghanistan currently does not have a recognized representative government, don't switch out words for me.

No, you originally said State. So either you don't understand basic concepts or you're engaging in goalpost shifting as I said.

You talk of consensus and embassies, but as i said, that's small pragmatic political moves. I ask you again about the one thing that matters - official recognition of that government.
Did Iran do that? Russia? EU? Pakistan at least? It's a similar difference as between saying random crap when drunk and putting a signature on a notarized document.

Don't care, didn't ask and it's not relevant anyway. Same governments, including the UN and other aid agencies are specifically calling for this action to be done, it's just you with your obstructionism of no value or merit. You're attempting to conflate two things-recognition and aid-which literally no other government has trouble with recognizing and to which I already pointed out; you don't have to recognize them to release their money to them.

If they all care so much about the ethics of it, let them convince equally ethical Taliban to relinquish control of the country and form some kind of emergency government that at least they will recognize. All for humanitarian reasons of course.
As things are, the Taliban are holding the country's economy hostage while demanding money that isn't theirs to pass through their hands with little to no supervision.
Alternatively let them set up a new reserve for Taliban government which they don't recognize, if they care so much, 10 bn USD is affordable for all of the 3 you mentioned.
But we all know they would sooner recognize the Taliban, which would solve the impasse.

Don't care, didn't ask, release their money and thank god you have no ability at all to stop us from doing that.

 

[History Learner]

I wonder why the rest of the World hates America more than China and Russia.....

Might I suggest that if the Taliban is unable to care for the Afghani people that they might have actually considered that before taking over the country, or, alternatively, that the Taliban is simply lying and intends to live well off the backs of others and have a laugh at their enemies actually paying them.

You can add your laughing emoji now, because we both know you can't argue with what I said.

 

[Arch Dornan]

This seeming attempt to guilt people into paying the Taliban for the supposed benefit of the Afghan people reminds me a lot of the attempt to guilt libertarians into supporting BLM and antifa, and it's just as stupid.

It is also ineffectual guilt tripping on a random ass forum. We don't have the money the banks and institutions do and they're not likely to do it when they've been absolutely humiliated that the Taliban didn't follow their schedule.

Might I suggest that if the Taliban is unable to care for the Afghani people that they might have actually considered that before taking over the country, or, alternatively, that the Taliban is simply lying and intends to live well off the backs of others and have a laugh at their enemies actually paying them.

I'll pick both. They'll skim a bit off the top and then distribute the money.

 

[Marduk]

As I said, nothing but obstructionist arguments of no merit, you're reduced to playing word games on things that are pretty easily established and in fact you yourself already previously established. You just change as needed out of knee jerk rejectionism that fools nobody.

Government recognition is not some obstructionist word game, this is a basic concept of international relations and law. Recognition of governments is a pretty big deal, not just to USA but all serious countries. China is willing to embargo countries over it for example.

No, you originally said State. So either you don't understand basic concepts or you're engaging in goalpost shifting as I said.

And you dare accuse me of playing word games...
So? Does it mean something else than government in that context? Neither means "the people" like you imagine.

Don't care, didn't ask and it's not relevant anyway. Same governments, including the UN and other aid agencies are specifically calling for this action to be done, it's just you with your obstructionism of no value or merit. You're attempting to conflate two things-recognition and aid-which literally no other government has trouble with recognizing and to which I already pointed out; you don't have to recognize them to release their money to them.

Virtue signalling governments, aid agencies and UN love their "calls to action", we all know that. Everyone sane has learned to ignore them. If they really wanted to they would do the action themselves. It's not like USA is the only country in the world that can afford aid.

I'm not conflating recognition or aid - recognition is a diplomatic decision, while aid is 100% voluntary and anyone other than USA has just as much of a free hand to provide it as USA. Afghanistan's central reserve is tied to recognition and related matters though.
Why should USA go out of its way to make an exception, considering that Taliban are not their friend?

Don't care, didn't ask, release their money and thank god you have no ability at all to stop us from doing that.

Why are you so keen on US government sending money to a designated terrorist organization? Wasn't letting them have 8x that in looted military hardware enough?

 

[Husky_Khan]

It is also ineffectual guilt tripping on a random ass forum.

Yeah the discussion has taken on a hilarious tone with all of that. Holy shit.

With that said, to be serious for a moment, according to world famous biologist and celebrated author Dr. Paul Ehrlich, in the seminal 1970 book The Population Bomb, it announced on the cover that "WHILE YOU ARE READING THESE WORDS FOUR PEOPLE WILL HAVE DIED OF STARVATION, MOST OF THEM CHILDREN" which... if that's keeping pace today means that in the time it took you to write that post of two sentences, I'm guessing around a thousand people have died of starvation, most of them children and most of them very brown children.

You could've fed them but you were too busy posting on this random ass forum.

 

[WolfBear]

No, largely because its a goal post shift you've now invented whole cloth in order to attempt to justify an argument that is increasingly contradictory.



Ah, so international standards are your basis of judging whether or not the Afghan people have a right to the money they placed in their accounts? Might want to actually do some digging in what the international community is saying about those funds.

I think that a more realpolitik approach is to give the Taliban access to any funds that are needed for food aid but to make the rest of the funds' release extremely gradual and make them dependent on a significant improvement in Afghanistan's human rights situation.

 

[Husky_Khan]

I think that a more realpolitik approach is to give the Taliban access to any funds that are needed for food aid but to make the rest of the funds' release extremely gradual and make them dependent on a significant improvement in Afghanistan's human rights situation.

Just give "the people" the actual food that you charge from the accounts.

 

[WolfBear]

Just give "the people" the actual that you charge from the accounts.

The actual what? Interest?

 

[Husky_Khan]

The actual what? Interest?

Oops meant to say food in there lol.