KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
Greed is not good, but you can know a lot about the state of a country by the state of its money.
Culture The State of Comics, Art and Trade In general
- Thread starter KilroywasNOTHere
- Start date
Maybe if the industry didn't shoot itself in the foot so many times, didn't hire hacks, ideologues and hack ideologues the industry wouldn't be in the shape it is in. I want to be surprised that someone managed to mess up something which should be a solid revenue stream...but I know better, and have seen this pattern repeated again and again...
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Problem here is, they and their bosses don't expect to make money
Their reputation and money is from stuff based on their intellectual property and that means the much more expensively produced movies, tv shows, cartoons, toys, shirts, videogames and so on
Though, sorry
DC Comics Publisher Jim Lee Reveals 25% Of Company's Publishing Line Wasn't Breaking Even; Commits To "Diversity and Inclusivity"
DC Comics Publisher and Chief Creative Officer Jim Lee recently discussed the recent layoffs at the company and the future of DC Comics.
boundingintocomics.com
I think they're far away from stopping in hiring hacks, ideaologous and hack ideaologues for a few more years
Current Batman writer James Tynion IV was offered a three year contract extension to continue writing for DC Comics but declined it in exchange for an offer from Substack to create a new slate of original, creator-owned comic book content on their website in what he described as a jaw dropping offer of the decade. Substack stated they would take none of the intellectual property rights or even publishing rights.
boundingintocomics.com
James Tynion IV Ditches Batman To Create Creator-Owned Comics For Substack
The current writer on DC Comics' Batman will be ditching the title in favor of creating new creator-owned comics for the subscription-based newsletter website, Substack.
boundingintocomics.com
Interesting. All it has to do is not suck.Current Batman writer James Tynion IV was offered a three year contract extension to continue writing for DC Comics but declined it in exchange for an offer from Substack to create a new slate of original, creator-owned comic book content on their website in what he described as a jaw dropping offer of the decade. Substack stated they would take none of the intellectual property rights or even publishing rights.
James Tynion IV Ditches Batman To Create Creator-Owned Comics For Substack
The current writer on DC Comics' Batman will be ditching the title in favor of creating new creator-owned comics for the subscription-based newsletter website, Substack.
Webcomics have shown that there is a hunger for western comics, but monetizing them is difficult. Most webcomic artists have to rely on donations, as only a few can make enough money off of print collections and merch.
Substack becoming a publisher could be a game changer.
Chuck Dixon in his latest Q&A was asked about the state of Marvel & DC Comics and his opinion on Comicsgate and whether it's even a thing or not.
(timestamp to 24:48)
This triggered a fairly long rant...
These questions are very much interrelated. So you’ve got DC and you’ve got Marvel. They’re the big two. They’re the big cats in the cage. They’re the stars. They’re the marquee. And they float all the boats. All of the comic industry goes up or down with the fortunes of DC or Marvel. That’s the just way it is.”
“I don’t see it ever changing. Particularly, since DC and Marvel seem to be in some sort of a suicide pact with themselves to destroy American comics. I’m beginning to believe that they are doing it intentionally. And I don’t think in a year from now DC or Marvel are going to exist as we see them today or as we ever remembered them.”
“I think they are going to be a licensing house and that’s it. So if you’ve got the bucks to license, you’re dying to do Elongated Man graphic novel you’ll be able to license it and do it. I really think that’s coming. It’s been coming for a long time. Sales are putrid. Sales are terrible. Something’s got to give.”
“The parent companies can’t keep carrying these comic book companies that simply don’t deliver any kind of earnings. And I know in the new economy, as NPR always tell me, earnings don’t matter. But they do. They do in the end. You gotta pay people. You gotta make enough money to pay everybody and keep the lights on."
“What can they do to turn around? Honestly, I think at this point it is too late. They’ve screwed the pooch on all of this stuff so much. They’ve chased away so many rumors. At this point, if DC and Marvel said, ‘Well, we’re going to go back to doing things the way we used to.’ At this point, would you believe them? Because they’ve certainly said it enough times."
“As the steam ran out of the Ultimates at Marvel, it seemed like every three months the companies would say, ‘We’re gonna return to more traditional ways of comics. We’re gonna do a soft reboot and basically go back to the way we were doing business before.’ But it turned out to never be true.”
“I think partly because they had chased away the talent or barred the talent from working that could have actually accomplished that, that could have returned to them to greatness. There’s rare exceptions. Dan Jurgens continues to do terrific work at DC, but that’s a rare exception for the most part. All of the contemporaries of Dan Jurgens, they’re not working in comics or they’re doing their own thing.”
“This is where Comicsgate comes in. Because what happened was…Because Marvel and DC chased away 60, 70% of their readership, and no new readers came in to replace them because why would they. Comics aren’t that interesting. They’re not that engaging. They’re not that attractive. And they feature characters for the most part that people couldn’t even recognize anymore because they’ve either been completely changed or altered in such a way that the general public no longer recognized them.”
“So kids going to see a Marvel or DC movie wanted a comic book like those characters, they couldn’t even find anything like those characters. So sales cratered, continue to crater. Death spiral. But what happens to all of those comic book readers? People like you, people like me. We want to read comics. We don’t want to stop just because they suck.”
“So into that gap comes Comicsgate. I don’t even like Comicsgate as a term because it started out as a pejorative. ‘Oh you’re part of Comicsgate’ like it’s some conspiracy. Like we all live in the same house. And I don’t even know what Comicsgate is. I’m not even sure what Comicsgate means. I’m always included in Comicsgate when they make a list of Comicsgate people. I’m always on it, often near the top, which is why I jokingly say I’m the Jesus of Comicsgate. I was the first. I was blacklisted by the industry and outed as a conservative."
“I’m not even sure what Comicsgate is. It’s like this loose affiliation and it’s a very loose affiliation because a lot of Comicsgate people don’t like each other. But what it is is a bunch of successful pros and some amateurs who are now pro very much, who through crowdfunding or whatever other means created their own comics, did away with the gatekeepers. Said, ‘Hey we don’t need the Big Two’ and reached out to that underserved comic book audience that no longer read DC and Marvel. ”
“And DC and Marvel, their editorship, and their creator people deeply resent this. And so they make it into something political. It’s not accident that the majority of the Comicsgate people or the majority of these new independent creators tend to be conservative. Because so many of them no longer work for the Big Two because they were blacklisted."
“So what were they supposed to do? They supposed to go become greeters at Walmart? Or they find a way to keep doing what it is they do best, which is create comics. And we know the names: Billy Tucci, Ethan Van Sciver, Graham Nolan, Richard Meyer. These guys have been incredibly successful. There’s others as well. Brian Pulido. Brian Pulido is a rockstar of crowdfunding, working outside the system. Of course Brian Pulido has always worked outside the system. He’s always found a way.”
“So that’s what Comicsgate is. And I find it funny that some of the big critics of Comicsgate tried to do what the quote-on-quote Comicsgate people were doing and they fell flat on their faces. Because they didn’t seem to understand it. They mistook it for a political movement. It’s not really a movement. It’s not like we all got together in a castle somewhere and say, “well you are going to do this and I’m going to do this, and you’re going to do…”
“This was organic. This was people making their own efforts, figuring out how to do the comics they wanted to do, figuring out how to continue their careers, figuring out how to keep food on the table for their families, and also to serve their fans, the people who had supported them all these years and didn’t want them to go away.|
“So like I said Comicsgate was a pejorative, it’s an insult. But some of the Comicsgate people embraced it like this is a badge of honor. I don’t really see it that way. I just think it’s kind of a dumb term. I don’t think it accurately describes what’s going on. I see it more as an independent creator revolution; a creator-owned revolution."
“As far as waking up Marvel and DC, let them sleep. Let them stay asleep.”
boundingintocomics.com
(timestamp to 24:48)
This triggered a fairly long rant...
These questions are very much interrelated. So you’ve got DC and you’ve got Marvel. They’re the big two. They’re the big cats in the cage. They’re the stars. They’re the marquee. And they float all the boats. All of the comic industry goes up or down with the fortunes of DC or Marvel. That’s the just way it is.”
“I don’t see it ever changing. Particularly, since DC and Marvel seem to be in some sort of a suicide pact with themselves to destroy American comics. I’m beginning to believe that they are doing it intentionally. And I don’t think in a year from now DC or Marvel are going to exist as we see them today or as we ever remembered them.”
“I think they are going to be a licensing house and that’s it. So if you’ve got the bucks to license, you’re dying to do Elongated Man graphic novel you’ll be able to license it and do it. I really think that’s coming. It’s been coming for a long time. Sales are putrid. Sales are terrible. Something’s got to give.”
“The parent companies can’t keep carrying these comic book companies that simply don’t deliver any kind of earnings. And I know in the new economy, as NPR always tell me, earnings don’t matter. But they do. They do in the end. You gotta pay people. You gotta make enough money to pay everybody and keep the lights on."
“What can they do to turn around? Honestly, I think at this point it is too late. They’ve screwed the pooch on all of this stuff so much. They’ve chased away so many rumors. At this point, if DC and Marvel said, ‘Well, we’re going to go back to doing things the way we used to.’ At this point, would you believe them? Because they’ve certainly said it enough times."
“As the steam ran out of the Ultimates at Marvel, it seemed like every three months the companies would say, ‘We’re gonna return to more traditional ways of comics. We’re gonna do a soft reboot and basically go back to the way we were doing business before.’ But it turned out to never be true.”
“I think partly because they had chased away the talent or barred the talent from working that could have actually accomplished that, that could have returned to them to greatness. There’s rare exceptions. Dan Jurgens continues to do terrific work at DC, but that’s a rare exception for the most part. All of the contemporaries of Dan Jurgens, they’re not working in comics or they’re doing their own thing.”
“This is where Comicsgate comes in. Because what happened was…Because Marvel and DC chased away 60, 70% of their readership, and no new readers came in to replace them because why would they. Comics aren’t that interesting. They’re not that engaging. They’re not that attractive. And they feature characters for the most part that people couldn’t even recognize anymore because they’ve either been completely changed or altered in such a way that the general public no longer recognized them.”
“So kids going to see a Marvel or DC movie wanted a comic book like those characters, they couldn’t even find anything like those characters. So sales cratered, continue to crater. Death spiral. But what happens to all of those comic book readers? People like you, people like me. We want to read comics. We don’t want to stop just because they suck.”
“So into that gap comes Comicsgate. I don’t even like Comicsgate as a term because it started out as a pejorative. ‘Oh you’re part of Comicsgate’ like it’s some conspiracy. Like we all live in the same house. And I don’t even know what Comicsgate is. I’m not even sure what Comicsgate means. I’m always included in Comicsgate when they make a list of Comicsgate people. I’m always on it, often near the top, which is why I jokingly say I’m the Jesus of Comicsgate. I was the first. I was blacklisted by the industry and outed as a conservative."
“I’m not even sure what Comicsgate is. It’s like this loose affiliation and it’s a very loose affiliation because a lot of Comicsgate people don’t like each other. But what it is is a bunch of successful pros and some amateurs who are now pro very much, who through crowdfunding or whatever other means created their own comics, did away with the gatekeepers. Said, ‘Hey we don’t need the Big Two’ and reached out to that underserved comic book audience that no longer read DC and Marvel. ”
“And DC and Marvel, their editorship, and their creator people deeply resent this. And so they make it into something political. It’s not accident that the majority of the Comicsgate people or the majority of these new independent creators tend to be conservative. Because so many of them no longer work for the Big Two because they were blacklisted."
“So what were they supposed to do? They supposed to go become greeters at Walmart? Or they find a way to keep doing what it is they do best, which is create comics. And we know the names: Billy Tucci, Ethan Van Sciver, Graham Nolan, Richard Meyer. These guys have been incredibly successful. There’s others as well. Brian Pulido. Brian Pulido is a rockstar of crowdfunding, working outside the system. Of course Brian Pulido has always worked outside the system. He’s always found a way.”
“So that’s what Comicsgate is. And I find it funny that some of the big critics of Comicsgate tried to do what the quote-on-quote Comicsgate people were doing and they fell flat on their faces. Because they didn’t seem to understand it. They mistook it for a political movement. It’s not really a movement. It’s not like we all got together in a castle somewhere and say, “well you are going to do this and I’m going to do this, and you’re going to do…”
“This was organic. This was people making their own efforts, figuring out how to do the comics they wanted to do, figuring out how to continue their careers, figuring out how to keep food on the table for their families, and also to serve their fans, the people who had supported them all these years and didn’t want them to go away.|
“So like I said Comicsgate was a pejorative, it’s an insult. But some of the Comicsgate people embraced it like this is a badge of honor. I don’t really see it that way. I just think it’s kind of a dumb term. I don’t think it accurately describes what’s going on. I see it more as an independent creator revolution; a creator-owned revolution."
“As far as waking up Marvel and DC, let them sleep. Let them stay asleep.”
Chuck Dixon: "DC And Marvel Seem To Be In Some Sort Of A Suicide Pact With Themselves To Destroy American Comics"
Famed Batman writer Chuck Dixon recently claimed that DC Comics and Marvel Comics are intentionally attempting to destroy American comics.
boundingintocomics.com
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
It frankly wouldin't huret my feelings if Marvel and DC did become a publishing house. Maybe i'm too much of a fanboy, but as far as I'm cocnered. Many of these heroes are essentially post WWI american mythology in fact many of these heroes started out as essentially myths to help propigate enlistment for WWII. Well with myths it wasin't the same enity constantly making stories. for these charecters to die completly would in part just be another example of how american culture is dying.
Major Comic Book Publishers scrambling for Creator-Owned Content, especially with smaller major comics publishers like IDW and Dark Horse losing licensed properties to the big media companies like Disney and Warner Bros.
Nachie Marsham Wants IDW to be Home to Creator Owned Comics in 2022
Right now, there is a gold rush for creator-owned comic books. Something once seen as an anathema in the industru, or a sop to keep certain creators still
bleedingcool.com
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
Major Comic Book Publishers scrambling for Creator-Owned Content, especially with smaller major comics publishers like IDW and Dark Horse losing licensed properties to the big media companies like Disney and Warner Bros.
Nachie Marsham Wants IDW to be Home to Creator Owned Comics in 2022
Right now, there is a gold rush for creator-owned comic books. Something once seen as an anathema in the industru, or a sop to keep certain creators stillbleedingcool.com
they wouldin't want my ideas. I'm just an Idea guy I can't make full fledged comics myself if I had full fledged comics ready to sell I'd be selling them myself. Besides, I'd be playing hardball trying to get as much equal footing as possible as well as a potential backdoor clause for myself in case some higher up tries to use my ideas as leverage against me. Comics are not dead, but as Co-oping, printing and advertising becomes more easier for the average joe, the day and age of using starving artist to make factory whimsy is essentially over.
Seems like a lot of big corperations didn't care about the kind of enimies they'd make and assumed they were invincible. Corporations much like wealth, was only ever a means towards an end, it was never meant to be the end goal.
According to Shelley Lopresti, wife of longtime comic book artist Aaron Lopresti, DC is threatening freelancers that they will never work with their company if they are associated with Comicsgate according to a comment she posted on Twitter. This tweet arose after Aaron Lopresti made an appearance on Ethan Van Scriver's livestream to promote his new graphic novel Wraith of God.
boundingintocomics.com
Rumor: DC Comics Threatening To Blacklist Any Freelancer Associated With Comicsgate
DC Comics is rumored to be threatening any freelancer who partners with Comicsgate with a lifetime ban from working for the publisher.
boundingintocomics.com
bintananth
behind a desk
If you want to make a living writing and drawing comics, yes that's a bad thing.
Comicsgate is also a very vocal minority saying "stop liking what I don't like and start liking what I like" with undertones of "or else" tossed in for good measure. It, like Gamergate, is toxic.
No, they are the people standing up against it and people forcing their preferences down everyone else's throat. You are buying the projection. This is what the mainstream industry is doing.
I cannot conceive how one person can get so much wrong.
sander093
Well-known member
No, that wasn't how it started.
It was started because a bunch of Comic artists and fans decided that they didn't like what the big two were putting out and decided to strike out on their own. And after the first few successful books others started to try their hand at it, some of them old pros, some first time creators. After a few years it's turned into a sort of indy comic scene, with an ever growing audience, feulled at least in part by how shit Marvel and DC have gotten in recent years.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
The moment you compared Comicsgate to Gamergate (in terms of being "toxic"), I knew you had no idea what you're talking about.
bintananth
behind a desk
Please note, I did not specify which side was being toxic.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Sorry; I get a little trigger-happy whenever it looks like someone is trying to paint Gamergate (a movement I was heavily in support of back when it was a still a thing, and not just a long-dead bogeyman the regressive left likes to trot out whenever they want to disparage consumers of entertainment media) in a negative light.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
According to Shelley Lopresti, wife of longtime comic book artist Aaron Lopresti, DC is threatening freelancers that they will never work with their company if they are associated with Comicsgate according to a comment she posted on Twitter. This tweet arose after Aaron Lopresti made an appearance on Ethan Van Scriver's livestream to promote his new graphic novel Wraith of God.
Rumor: DC Comics Threatening To Blacklist Any Freelancer Associated With Comicsgate
DC Comics is rumored to be threatening any freelancer who partners with Comicsgate with a lifetime ban from working for the publisher.
Like Superman comics are even worth doing at this point. It's funny DC comics bragged about how many superheroes are inspired by thier holy trinity they brag about how many Expys and/or knockoffs have been. Well eventually some indi artist or writer IS going to create that spirtual successor to superman and when that day comes, there won't be anything DC will be able to do about it.
Yes, we all tend to be sore about that.
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
Not sure where else to put this so here it is.
Superman will no longer champion 'the American way.' It's sad, but our nation deserves it.
you know, a civil war may not be coming, but it sure isn't stopping propagandist from trying to evoke one, either by rallying their side or goading the opposition
Superman will no longer champion 'the American way.' It's sad, but our nation deserves it.
you know, a civil war may not be coming, but it sure isn't stopping propagandist from trying to evoke one, either by rallying their side or goading the opposition
Not to read too much into the company’s decision, but “the American way” is a tarnished brand these days. From our tragic 20-year war in Afghanistan, to the deadly Capitol attack that disrupted centuries of peaceful post-election transfers of power, to a lying, corrupt, twice-impeached ex-president who still dominates the Republican Party, we are not living our best national life.
New Superman motto announced Oct. 16, 2021: 'Truth, Justice and A Better Tomorrow.'
If you were a country aspiring to democracy, which is – as Winston Churchill noted – the worst form of government except for all the others, would you set up an Electoral College that lets losers win or a Senate hobbled by minority rule and single senators with axes to grind?
New Superman motto announced Oct. 16, 2021: 'Truth, Justice and A Better Tomorrow.'
If you were a country aspiring to democracy, which is – as Winston Churchill noted – the worst form of government except for all the others, would you set up an Electoral College that lets losers win or a Senate hobbled by minority rule and single senators with axes to grind?