The Problems of Higher Education

[Edgeplay_cgo]

I think some of it is on employers, though. My search for employment over the past 9 months has shown that there are plenty of positions open for mechanical engineers, but the vast, vast majority of them are looking for people with 5-10 years of experience. I can understand companies wanting someone with experience to a point, because that means that they can just have someone jump in and go right to work without having to train them, but these positions remain open for months and I'm still without a job, so it's like neither of us is getting what we want, but we would both benefit if they gave me a shot. As for the entry level positions, which are a rarity it seems like, they have the pick of the litter, so to speak. And I guess internships count for more than GRA experience.

It cuts both ways. I was retired, despite a 40 year plaque on my wall. I left it there. It don't mean nuthin'. (They als gave me a clock that didn't keep time.) Anyway, I talked to a former co worker a month or so later. All us grey beards are gone. There is no one left over 40. Junior engineers and new PEs are cheaper.

 

[Deleted member]

@Edgeplay_cgo I agree absolutely on philosophy. I was introduced to Schopenhauer at a community college where the professors without the correct ideology often end up teaching. That led me to my religion and to a world of learning. Simply reading on the internet wouldn’t have done it.

 

[Terthna]

They're telling you that, but it's a usually a goddamn lie. If they get the experienced engineer, they'll take them. What they'll typically take is someone that impresses them, has a personal 'in' with the company or has a particular skillset.

I never managed to even land an interview, even though I tried to apply for hundreds of job over the course of two years. Although honestly, considering the fact that I'm autistic, and my social skills suck, I doubt any of them would have gone anywhere, even if I had.

I feel like I'm being chastise by the DM of life; he's telling me that I shouldn't have put all those points into Intelligence and Wisdom, but instead dumped everything into Charisma. Unfortunately, starting over with a new character sheet is not an option; so I'm stuck with a build that locks me out of basically every profession, aside from Disability Recipient, which I only get because of the Flaw that jerk of a DM stuck me with. This game sucks.

 

[bullethead]

I got lucky and managed to get out of college debt free due to two things - taking a bunch of AP classes in high school, testing out of foreign language by the skin of my teeth, and relying on my dad's post-911 GI Bill benefits. To be honest, I made some bad choices - for example, not double majoring in this information science degree for libraries as a Creative Writing major, not doing too good a job looking for positions before graduation - but worse is that the academic advisors do a terrible job of letting students know about things like certificate programs. Some of that is because they are aimed at grad students, but there's literally no reason that an undergrad English major can't do the work for an editing certificate if they've got a good enough academic record.

That said, for most people, a 4 to 6 month certificate program would be good enough post-college education for many career fields. That said, it really depends on what the job market is your area - even with a whole bunch of machining certifications, I had to wait a month to get an offer I felt was worth my time, and even then, it was for a position that didn't let me use the full skill set I learned. That said, it pays a hell of a lot better than Lockheed Martin ($17 when I started, vs the $14 LM was going to start me at). Only cost me $2000 thanks to Career Source Florida covering $5000 in exchange for me keeping them up to date on my job progress.

Honestly, I feel like liberal arts degrees could be stripped of a lot of non-essential degree related electives (like, I appreciated my Shakespeare class, but I didn't need it), sort of like skinny cable bundles, and in exchange for removing those electives, students could be offered technical degrees in or out of their majors.

That said, I'm going to say this as well - college works wonderfully if you're the kind of person who thrives in the world of extroversion and networking. If you're not, then it has dubious value.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

Learning isn't a waste, it's only a waste if you view your life and relationship with the world in terms of market relations which is one of the most lifeless and sad ways of living.

Don't think about your life being equated to money! Now sell me the most active fifteen to twenty years of your life as a direct debt equation WHILE NOT THINKING ABOUT MONEY! WEEEEE!!!

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

If someone wants to learn about religion, art, history, philosophy, sociology, literature - the world it at their fingertips virtually for free. We have the internet but even before that there were libraries. I place great importance on knowledge, great importance on learning, but that doesn't mean that I value the educational system that we have now.

Reading about it is only part of the picture. With a 3-D education, you get to discuss the issues, argue your position, write about your ideas . . . refine and sharpen your knowledge. The logic, debating, and writing skill development are, or maybe used to be, a major part of the education.

 

[Realm]

Are you from Europe?

Canadanana

If someone wants to learn about religion, art, history, philosophy, sociology, literature - the world it at their fingertips virtually for free. We have the internet but even before that there were libraries. I place great importance on knowledge, great importance on learning, but that doesn't mean that I value the educational system that we have now.

And again, google does not replace a group of competent teachers, able to guide and answer questions deeply and meaningfully. This doesn't mean Google is useless, but it's just as easy to become less knowledgeable than more using it, especially if skills of discernment learnt in a university setting are lacked.

Don't think about your life being equated to money! Now sell me the most active fifteen to twenty years of your life as a direct debt equation WHILE NOT THINKING ABOUT MONEY! WEEEEE!!!

You're right, the current profit seeking nature of universities paired with overbearing loans are horrific, we should make university free.

 

[Marduk]

Reading about it is only part of the picture. With a 3-D education, you get to discuss the issues, argue your position, write about your ideas . . . refine and sharpen your knowledge. The logic, debating, and writing skill development are, or maybe used to be, a major part of the education.

In theory...
In practice, a lot of 3-D education provides little to none of that, often due to plain pressure to slog through course material, test preparations and other boxes that need to be checked in the given hours.
And that's just plain "status quo" organizational problem, without even getting into the political issues with some areas of discussion.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

You're right, the current profit seeking nature of universities paired with overbearing loans are horrific, we should make university free.

Nothing's free. Anyone who says otherwise is planning to rob someone.

 

[Terthna]

Nothing's free. Anyone who says otherwise is planning to rob someone.

True; but self-education can be pretty dang cheap. All you really need is time, and access to the internet.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

True; but self-education can be pretty dang cheap. All you really need is time, and access to the internet.

There is admittedly the problem that without somebody else telling or reviewing you, you may not know that you really know that subject so well

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

True; but self-education can be pretty dang cheap. All you really need is time, and access to the internet.

I strongly encourage people to seek self education. You will learn more in a year of reading classical literature than you would in ten years in an English department.

 

[Arch Dornan]

You have touched upon a very little known and politically incorrect truth here that puts the academia and its influence on politics in a very suspicious light.
IQ tests you say....
Yes, that's true, it's a very cumbersome, expensive and indirect way to have an officially recognized, documented IQ test, particularly in cases of requiring a degree not clearly associated to a job's skill requirement, like with engineering or medical sciences, yet are still required.
Say, you want to be a clever businessman and hire cheaper smart non-graduates by using IQ tests to pick who to hire?
Oh, wait, that's illegal!
It's not outright made clear, but it's such a huge lawsuit risk that no one high profile enough to get a bunch of activist organizations interested will do it. After all, as we know, those organizations are plentiful these days, and will zerg rush any case politically charged enough, even if it's just some local baker, so the standard for "high profile enough" is disturbingly low these days.

And of course it is related to the early days of still very controversial and politically polarizing "identity politics" stuff as far as it's enshrined in the US legal system.

The Dead End of “Disparate Impact”

Ever since the 1971 Supreme Court decision in Griggs v. Duke Power Company, our legal system has effectively forbidden the use of job-screening devices that produce a "disparate impact" on the hiring of minority workers. But while this disparate-impa...

nationalaffairs.com

Griggs v. Duke Power: Implications for College Credentialing

Free essays, homework help, flashcards, research papers, book reports, term papers, history, science, politics

studylib.net

Is that psychometric testing I fucking loathe it.

I suspect companies use it to trim out the number of applications that get sent online to them.

 

[Cherico]

Is that psychometric testing I fucking loathe it.

I suspect companies use it to trim out the number of applications that get sent online to them.

congratulations you are correct.

The good news is that you can game the system to your benefit so find out how to do that.

 

[Terthna]

There is admittedly the problem that without somebody else telling or reviewing you, you may not know that you really know that subject so well

That also holds true with formal education though; especially when professors are too terrified of losing their jobs, to tell their students when they're wrong. Better to accept responsibility for your own education, rather than give someone else the opportunity to screw it up for you.

 

[Edgeplay_cgo]

Is that psychometric testing I fucking loathe it.

I suspect companies use it to trim out the number of applications that get sent online to them.

I have never heard of a company, first, second, or third hand, that uses psychometric testing, except for a few police departments that have IQ ceilings for applicants. But you're spot on about needing to trim the number of applicants. When I was hiring, it was for laborers, so I'd grab the first suitable candidate. You want a job scraping mold? (Actually, I'm retired from that.) But my son did / does some hiring for a major aerospace firm. He got resumes by the bushel. His first task was to find a reason to toss the resume. That was the only way he could get through them.

 

[Sol Zagato]

I have never heard of a company, first, second, or third hand, that uses psychometric testing,

One loophole is oral interview questions. Tech companies are known for that.

 

[FriedCFour]

You're right, the current profit seeking nature of universities paired with overbearing loans are horrific, we should make university free.

There is no such thing as free.

The idea learning is equal to academics and that means going to a university so some old boomer hippy holdover can tell you his thoughts on whatever PhD he somehow managed to get is both sad and hilarious.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

There is no such thing as free.

The idea learning is equal to academics and that means going to a university so some old boomer hippy holdover can tell you his thoughts on whatever PhD he somehow managed to get is both sad and hilarious.

I think he thinks that this sort of education doesn’t actually cost that much just because you guys can afford a military and rich guys can have lots of card

 

[Realm]

There is no such thing as free.

Nothing's free. Anyone who says otherwise is planning to rob someone.

Damn, I never realized that, that you both for informing me that people need to be paid for their work teaching others.

Anyway, both of you know what I meant, but I do appreciate the facetious mockery, it really makes me feel like you respect the inherent injustice of education at the level required for the modern world being gated behind a crippling paywall rather than just simply lashing out at people you disagree with, with whatever cudgel comes to hand.