The political triangle

[The Name of Love]

Watching those videos, I think I oppose Neo-Reactionary philosophy; if only due to its apparent focus on Christianity as a necessity to western civilization.

Christianity literally created Western Civilization, so it makes sense to want to restore Christendom if you want to revive the West. Also keep in mind that Charlemagne is a Theonomist reactionary, rather than a techno-commercialist or ethno-nationalist reactionary. He's going to emphasize religion over all else because that's what his worldview is. You can take a different route to neo-reaction.

 

[Terthna]

Christianity literally created Western Civilization, so it makes sense to want to restore Christendom if you want to revive the West. Also keep in mind that Charlemagne is a Theonomist reactionary, rather than a techno-commercialist or ethno-nationalist reactionary. He's going to emphasize religion over all else because that's what his worldview is. You can take a different route to neo-reaction.

I understand what you're saying, but personally, while I acknowledge the importance of Christianity in the development of western civilization, I do not accept that it is necessary to return it to prominence in order to move forward. Besides; much of what we understand as being core principles of western civilization, actually came from pagans and atheists.

 

[The Name of Love]

I understand what you're saying, but personally, while I acknowledge the importance of Christianity in the development of western civilization, I do not accept that it is necessary to return it to prominence in order to move forward. Besides; much of what we understand as being core principles of western civilization, actually came from pagans and atheists.

I would argue that, no, much of what are the core principles of Western Civilization came from Catholicism.

 

[FriedCFour]

I am a woman, a Feminine Essentialist, a Guénonian esoteric traditionalist, a Filyani by religious conviction; an Aristasian in spirit though not oath, and an incurable and proud Romantic who is unashamed to say that she is a daughter of counterrevolution until her last dying breath.

Ah well, since you introduced yourself like that, I have to respond in kind.

I'm a Aristotelian-Thomist, a Roman Catholic traditionalist, a meta-political neo-reactionary, and an amateur philosopher. Merry meet, Punch Card Girl.

We'll have to talk some time about our differences.

 

[Terthna]

I would argue that, no, much of what are the core principles of Western Civilization came from Catholicism.

The fact that the Roman Empire, the birthplace of western civilization, was around long before Catholicism even existed, puts lie to that idea.

 

[The Name of Love]

The fact that the Roman Empire, the birthplace of western civilization, was around long before Catholicism even existed, puts lie to that idea.

The Roman Empire collapsed, and what was good about it was preserved through the Church. There wasn’t even an idea of Europe before Charlemagne established his empire. Rome and other pagan civilizations provided the building blocks, but it was the Catholic Church that built western civilization.

 

[The Original Sixth]

It's a nice attempt at a political chart, but I simply don't see it working. I think the four sided chart is the best one there is currently. One dimension measures social and economics, the other liberal or authoritarian.

Because you can be incredibly liberal on social issues, but incredibly authoritarian on economic ones.

 

[Terthna]

The Roman Empire collapsed, and what was good about it was preserved through the Church. There wasn’t even an idea of Europe before Charlemagne established his empire. Rome and other pagan civilizations provided the building blocks, but it was the Catholic Church that built western civilization.

True; but I'd argue that the Church has collapsed as well. So the plan to move forward should be to take what was good about it, and create something new; or at least that's what I'm thinking, not try and recapture the past.

 

[The Original Sixth]

True; but I'd argue that the Church has collapsed as well. So the plan to move forward should be to take what was good about it, and create something new; or at least that's what I'm thinking, not try and recapture the past.

I think the Church was bound to collapse once the threat of Muslim invasion receded. The Crusades were if anything, a gathering of major powers to repel or attack another major power to the south of them. Once the European powers were secure from that, I think the role of the Church quickly declined.

 

[The Name of Love]

It's a nice attempt at a political chart, but I simply don't see it working. I think the four sided chart is the best one there is currently. One dimension measures social and economics, the other liberal or authoritarian.

Because you can be incredibly liberal on social issues, but incredibly authoritarian on economic ones.

The political compass does not work because it has Hitler be a centrist, and it makes people who aren’t in favor of mass immigration and libertarianism become leftists. It also doesn’t distinguish WHY you’d support authoritarianism not does it tell you what measures you’d take. It’s a dumb test that tells you nothing.

True; but I'd argue that the Church has collapsed as well. So the plan to move forward should be to take what was good about it, and create something new; or at least that's what I'm thinking, not try and recapture the past.

Well, you aren’t going to make Catholicism go away. Every group that has tried to destroy it has fallen. It’s been around for 2000 years, and I bet it’s going to be around for another 2000 more at least.

 

[Terthna]

Well, you aren’t going to make Catholicism go away. Every group that has tried to destroy it has fallen. It’s been around for 2000 years, and I bet it’s going to be around for another 2000 more at least.

Of course Catholicism isn't going to go away; Rome is still there too. However, Rome will never be the center of western civilization again; neither will the Church.

 

[The Name of Love]

Of course Catholicism isn't going to go away; Rome is still there too. However, Rome will never be the center of western civilization again; neither will the Church.

What will be then?

 

[Terthna]

What will be then?

Whatever we end up building. I can't predict the future, anymore than the Romans could when their empire fell. Though, I think we've managed to improve a lot since then, and I trust we will continue to do so; no matter what that looks like in the end.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

What will be then?

Hopefully moral and spiritual guidance for a billion or so people as it has been in the past.

 

[Comrade Clod]

Look as a catholic I like hyping up the Church as much as anyone else, but the foundation of western civilisation's moral code we are not. Largely because we have roots in Judaism and so on, and the Jewish people have roots back to the original semetic nomads etc. And thats not even counting all the other influences. Or even accounting for the many variants of what "western civilisation" even is.

 

[The Name of Love]

Look as a catholic I like hyping up the Church as much as anyone else, but the foundation of western civilisation's moral code we are not. Largely because we have roots in Judaism and so on, and the Jewish people have roots back to the original semetic nomads etc. And thats not even counting all the other influences. Or even accounting for the many variants of what "western civilisation" even is.

Western Civilization, as I define it, is European Christendom.

 

[Hlaalu Agent]

Western Civilization, as I define it, is European Christendom.

That definition is far too narrow in some senses, and yet too broad in others. Western civilization is a mix of Germanic, Graeco-Roman, and Judeo-Christian traditions.

 

[The Name of Love]

That definition is far too narrow in some senses, and yet too broad in others. Western civilization is a mix of Germanic, Graeco-Roman, and Judeo-Christian traditions.

Christendom is a mix of Germanic, Graeco-Roman, and Judeo-Christian traditions, yes.

 

[Comrade Clod]

Christendom is a mix of Germanic, Graeco-Roman, and Judeo-Christian traditions, yes.

Also the basques, Slavs, influences from places as far and distant as India (our numbers, games like chess), the Arab world, the Turks, the Americas and many more.

Its impossible to quantify something like a type of "civilisation" when there is so much overlap.

 

[Deleted member 1]

Also the basques, Slavs, influences from places as far and distant as India (our numbers, games like chess), the Arab world, the Turks, the Americas and many more.

Its impossible to quantify something like a type of "civilisation" when there is so much overlap.

Yes, there are profound, important influences from them all. And you can immediately tell each one apart, as well. And that matters.