Books The Military Response to the Martians (War of the Worlds).

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Note: Reposted from SV where it got some attention about four years ago, but most of the people here are not SV posters, and so likely never saw it.

In the hundred and twenty odd years since Wells' War of the Worlds was written, there has been a general consensus to dismiss the actions of the British military against the Martians and their effectiveness. The Martians were ultimately defeated by disease, and until that point, humanity was helpless at the slaughterhouse. Later adaptations have focused on this immensely, to the point that there is a notion that Wells' novel generally portrays humanity being wiped out like gnats in an example of the first of the genre of the overwhelming alien intelligence crushing us, helpless with our technology and arrogance against it.

I am going to make a series of posts relating to specific incidents, usually covered only in passing, observing the details of the combat between the Martians and the British military, showing that this was not the case and providing some light on the exact details.

The first covers that glorious event, the fight of the Thunderchild and the three Tripods.

For after the sailors could no longer come up the Thames, they came on to the Essex coast, to Harwich and Walton and Clacton, and afterwards to Foulness and Shoebury, to bring off the people. They lay in a huge sickle-shaped curve that vanished into mist at last towards the Naze. Close inshore was a multitude of fishing smacks--English, Scotch, French, Dutch, and Swedish; steam launches from the Thames, yachts, electric boats; and beyond were ships of large burden, a multitude of filthy colliers, trim merchantmen, cattle ships, passenger boats, petroleum tanks, ocean tramps, an old white transport even, neat white and grey liners from Southampton and Hamburg; and along the blue coast across the Blackwater my brother could make out dimly a dense swarm of boats chaffering with the people on the beach, a swarm which also extended up the Blackwater almost to Maldon.

About a couple of miles out lay an ironclad, very low in the water, almost, to my brother's perception, like a water-logged ship. This was the ram Thunder Child. It was the only warship in sight, but far away to the right over the smooth surface of the sea--for that day there was a dead calm--lay a serpent of black smoke to mark the next ironclads of the Channel Fleet, which hovered in an extended line, steam up and ready for action, across the Thames estuary during the course of the Martian conquest, vigilant and yet powerless to prevent it.
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The identity of the Thunderchild is something of a mystery. She is not a real ship of the historic British ranks. She is described as a ram. This is an interesting sort of ironclad that was actually quite obsolete in the 1890s when the book was written. By that point the classical pre-dreadnought battleship was well established, and the construction of armoured rams had largely ceased--though battleships themselves were still fitted with impressive ram bows. She is described as low-slung and almost waterlogged, and critically the Channel fleet, which would have consisted of pre-dreadnought battleships, is also described as being a line of ironclads. So the word is not being used with technical precision.

The guns of the newest ships of the channel fleet would be 12in/40cal main cannon mounted in hooded barbettes with 6in/40cal BLRs in battery casemates along their flanks. These Majestic class battleships could fire their main guns twice a minute, with high explosive or armour piercing rounds. Their range-finding was primitive, but Captain Scott was alive and already introducing critical refinements, and from the foretops they would have good sighting with Barr and Stroud coincident rangefinders.

Does it matter? Certainly so. At Shepperton a battery of six cannon laying in ambuscade destroyed a Tripod with a single well-placed round. These were not heavy guns, nor by the standards of Europe in 1898 were they even good guns. The British Army was profoundly deficient in 1898. The field artillery was, generally speaking, in the best case, the worst equipment used subsequent in the Boer War. The guns must have unambiguously been Ordnance BLR 15pdrs. These were modified 12-pdr guns of the 3-inch caliber, firing somewhat heavier shrapnel shells useless against armoured fighting machines and since it was before 1899, on the poor performing Mk.II carriage. Rate of fire was probably not much greater than 4 rounds a minute in practice due to the need to shift the guns back into firing position due to recoil, if not worse in some situations. The Shepperton battery is mentioned only firing twice.

Critically, most of the shells it fired burst harmlessly near the Martians, as did most other shells. Why? They were shrapnel shells, designed to burst in air with timed fuses. Against rapidly moving Martians, the Martian has already moved out of the way, since the fuse must be manually adjusted by time. And the Martian is clearly armoured enough to repel shrapnel. Why was one Tripod cut down at Shepperton, then? It was hit square-on by a shrapnel shell before it burst, the text made clear. The 3-inch shell succeeded in slaying the Martian and deranging the machinery through a direct impact that it was not designed for. Yet this shell, used against its design with a direct hit, did the job. We might imagine the solid shot the French issued for firing at river gunboats from the fully recoil-suppressed M1898 75mm firing up to 20 rounds a minute would have made quite the impression on an advance of Martian Tripods.

It is unambiguous that 3-inch fire from even a light gunboat is sufficient firing common rounds, with high explosive and some armour piercing ability, to seriously threaten the Martians. At the very least, the naval 4-inch quick firing gun must be taken to be a serious threat to a Martian Tripod. What of the 12-inch guns of the channel fleet? I think it is sufficient to say that they would be able to destroy a group of tripods with their high-explosive shells landing nearby. The blast would knock over Tripods, derange and possibly explode heat ray projectors, and by shock-wave, kill the Martians inside when the shell landed close enough.

What is the Thunderchild, then? The best theory I have is that she is the real-life ship named Thundershield (Tordenskjold): The Danish 1880-era UK-built Ironclad ram that Wells saw building when he was a young man as she was built in the UK. The British sometimes bought such ships when contracts fell through; it is thus plausible such a ship, more or less the ultimate of the ironclad rams, would have ended up in the Royal Navy and be the Thunderchild. At 2,500 tons, she was a fifth the size of a Majestic, armed with a single 14-inch gun forward that would fire one round a minute, if that. Low slung, for 13 knots and able to operate in only 16 feet of water she meets the description of the Thunderchild perfectly. Critically, her secondary battery is 4 x 4.7-inch BLRs, which firing 4 - 6 six rounds a minute would be completely lethal to the Martians despite being older blackpowder guns. Very notably, Tordenskjold did not carry side armour. She instead a heavy and very thick barbette defending her gun magazine, and a strong deck against plunging shells. This barbette would defend her head-on when she was approaching the enemy, firing her gun and preparing to use torpedoes and ram.

It was with the greatest difficulty they could get her down to the beach, where presently my brother succeeded in attracting the attention of some men on a paddle steamer from the Thames. They sent a boat and drove a bargain for thirty-six pounds for the three. The steamer was going, these men said, to Ostend.

It was about two o'clock when my brother, having paid their fares at the gangway, found himself safely aboard the steamboat with his charges. There was food aboard, albeit at exorbitant prices, and the three of them contrived to eat a meal on one of the seats forward.

There were already a couple of score of passengers aboard, some of whom had expended their last money in securing a passage, but the captain lay off the Blackwater until five in the afternoon, picking up passengers until the seated decks were even dangerously crowded. He would probably have remained longer had it not been for the sound of guns that began about that hour in the south. As if in answer, the ironclad seaward fired a small gun and hoisted a string of flags. A jet of smoke sprang out of her funnels.

Some of the passengers were of opinion that this firing came from Shoeburyness, until it was noticed that it was growing louder. At the same time, far away in the southeast the masts and upperworks of three ironclads rose one after the other out of the sea, beneath clouds of black smoke. But my brother's attention speedily reverted to the distant firing in the south. He fancied he saw a column of smoke rising out of the distant grey haze.

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So it is the Battle off the Blackwater. We can assume that the Martians came into the water at Courtsend and that Thunderchild was standing on a line, about midpoint between Courtsend and Clacton-on-Sea, five miles from the shore. Her guns thus commanded the beaches of the entire surrounding area from which the evacuation was proceeding. At 20-degrees elevation her 4.7-inch BLRs would range to ten thousand yards. Twelve rounds per minute from the two guns on a broadside would rain down on the position desired, as long as visibility was good, and threaten Martians along the shore with a single round from her 14-incher every minute creating a greater effect.

Despite this she was essentially sacrificial; the Martian tripods stand on legs probably about 40 feet high with the structure another 20 and the heat-ray is a direct fire weapon. The officers of the Channel Fleet would have, in despondency over their inability to prevent the invasion of Britain, nonetheless discussed the events, and received intelligence from Shepperton. It would be clear that the Heat Ray is not a ballistic, but a direct fire weapon. Thus a simple geometric calculation determines the range of its effect. The curvature of the Earth demands that the Heat Ray strike ground or sea about twelve kilometers away from where it is projected, assuming the lay of the land is the same. Firing down from the low Essex coast would not help very much.

The fleet's gunnery is not good, but they have ballistic weapons and they have high fighting tops with sighting equipment. They can stay off the coast at a distance of twelve kilometers and direct main battery fire against any Martians seen with minimal risk; this is within the range of the 12-inchers, but at the limit of the Martian range of the heat-ray. They can protect people in a band along the coast; that is the salvation of some measure of the British people, at least. Other officers would discuss plans for the repair of the fleet to the Island of Wight, which might be covered all around with guns so as to prevent the Martians from effecting a landing. The government doubtless was making plans to arrange for the mounting of guns of the 4.7in to 6in caliber on canalliers to provide a more effectual defence using the massive British canal system. This is still talk of despair.

More to the point, Thunderchild is in range of Martian counter-fire. She is sacrificial because she is small, and because the fleet must have intelligence. There is no wireless telegraphy. They have optical telegraphs and flag signals to communicate with shore only, and they must have detached vessels close to shore to repeat intelligence. She is a scout and a picket, and her officers and men know that she is doomed when the fight begins against the Martians. But with their loved ones being pitilessly massacred ashore and the immense tradition of the Royal Navy being laid low by the inability to prevent this invasion, a burning need to find some way to fight back exists, and by fate or fortune, the Martians give it to them.

At some point to the south, a division of battleships of the Channel Fleet sights Martian Tripods working down to the shore, probably in considerable force. The firing probably was from off Shoeburyness initially, but was this division of the Channel fleet fighting a running battle with tripods along the coast to the north of the city. The ability of the Channel fleet to defend Shoeburyness is unknown, but it's quite possible that the city was saved by mass 12-inch fire turning the tripods back. The Martians finding they did not have the range to engage the Channel fleet, tried to find a solution. The coast being very shallow in this area and the Martians having good imagery from above, it appears they settled on a flanking maneouvre against the Channel fleet.

A group of Tripods would set out to sea; the notion that they were there to massacre the shipping comes off as absurd. The Martians are not massacring at this point. They are engaging in the surgical destruction of Britain's ability to fight back. They are destroying telegraphs and railway junctions in targeted strikes against critical points, wrecking roads and bridges and surgically removing the ability of the country to resist, while using terror to demoralise the people into being unwilling to resist. This is Shock-and-Awe in 1898, as I will go into in more detail.

What this means is that the objective of the Tripods was to remove the ability of the British to continue to resist militarily. They were to slip out to sea and ambush the Channel fleet as it continued to steam north, firing at Tripods moving north from Shoeburyness after the initial attempt to destroy the city was repulsed by the massed 12-inch gunfire of the fleet. By getting out to sea, the Tripods can range on the ships and destroy them. Thunderchild is warned to be alert for such a maneouvre by the exchange of signals, confirmed by shot of a signal gun; and indeed, the Martians send out their flanking maneouvre. Abruptly Thunderchild is no longer helpless. Every man aboard must have felt an indescribable thrill as days of helplessness at the steady butchering of their loved ones and country were replaced by the smallest chance, however hopeless to their lives, to meaningfully fight back.

The little steamer was already flapping her way eastward of the big crescent of shipping, and the low Essex coast was growing blue and hazy, when a Martian appeared, small and faint in the remote distance, advancing along the muddy coast from the direction of Foulness. At that the captain on the bridge swore at the top of his voice with fear and anger at his own delay, and the paddles seemed infected with his terror. Every soul aboard stood at the bulwarks or on the seats of the steamer and stared at that distant shape, higher than the trees or church towers inland, and advancing with a leisurely parody of a human stride.

It was the first Martian my brother had seen, and he stood, more amazed than terrified, watching this Titan advancing deliberately towards the shipping, wading farther and farther into the water as the coast fell away. Then, far away beyond the Crouch, came another, striding over some stunted trees, and then yet another, still farther off, wading deeply through a shiny mudflat that seemed to hang halfway up between sea and sky. They were all stalking seaward, as if to intercept the escape of the multitudinous vessels that were crowded between Foulness and the Naze. In spite of the throbbing exertions of the engines of the little paddle-boat, and the pouring foam that her wheels flung behind her, she receded with terrifying slowness from this ominous advance.
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Bolded text just confirms that the Martians were coming from beyond the Crouch, i.e., going into the sea around Courtsend, and so were probably trying to flank the Channel fleet steaming north.

Glancing northwestward, my brother saw the large crescent of shipping already writhing with the approaching terror; one ship passing behind another, another coming round from broadside to end on, steamships whistling and giving off volumes of steam, sails being let out, launches rushing hither and thither. He was so fascinated by this and by the creeping danger away to the left that he had no eyes for anything seaward. And then a swift movement of the steamboat (she had suddenly come round to avoid being run down) flung him headlong from the seat upon which he was standing. There was a shouting all about him, a trampling of feet, and a cheer that seemed to be answered faintly. The steamboat lurched and rolled him over upon his hands.

He sprang to his feet and saw to starboard, and not a hundred yards from their heeling, pitching boat, a vast iron bulk like the blade of a plough tearing through the water, tossing it on either side in huge waves of foam that leaped towards the steamer, flinging her paddles helplessly in the air, and then sucking her deck down almost to the waterline.

A douche of spray blinded my brother for a moment. When his eyes were clear again he saw the monster had passed and was rushing landward. Big iron upperworks rose out of this headlong structure, and from that twin funnels projected and spat a smoking blast shot with fire. It was the torpedo ram, Thunder Child, steaming headlong, coming to the rescue of the threatened shipping.

Keeping his footing on the heaving deck by clutching the bulwarks, my brother looked past this charging leviathan at the Martians again, and he saw the three of them now close together, and standing so far out to sea that their tripod supports were almost entirely submerged. Thus sunken, and seen in remote perspective, they appeared far less formidable than the huge iron bulk in whose wake the steamer was pitching so helplessly. It would seem they were regarding this new antagonist with astonishment. To their intelligence, it may be, the giant was even such another as themselves. The Thunder Child fired no gun, but simply drove full speed towards them. It was probably her not firing that enabled her to get so near the enemy as she did. They did not know what to make of her. One shell, and they would have sent her to the bottom forthwith with the Heat-Ray.
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Here, we see that the Martians have probably reached a depth of thirty-five feet or greater. This is well within the operating range of the Thunderchild, and indeed, her Captain must have realized she could ram, in addition to using her guns. The Martians themselves could not be sure of the nature of the Thunderchild, likely then steaming at 13kts, having encountered the Channel fleet at a dim remove and those ships being very different besides. But it is just as likely that the Martians were silent because their orders were to engage the Channel fleet, and they were ignoring shipping that did not match the nature of that clear enemy.

She was steaming at such a pace that in a minute she seemed halfway between the steamboat and the Martians--a diminishing black bulk against the receding horizontal expanse of the Essex coast.

Suddenly the foremost Martian lowered his tube and discharged a canister of the black gas at the ironclad. It hit her larboard side and glanced off in an inky jet that rolled away to seaward, an unfolding torrent of Black Smoke, from which the ironclad drove clear. To the watchers from the steamer, low in the water and with the sun in their eyes, it seemed as though she were already among the Martians.
The range of the cannister discharges is not great. This means Thunderchild approached to at most perhaps a mile from the Martians, they are never shown as discharging the cylinders at greater distances, and the process is probably pneumatic as very careful observers do not attend it with any kind of flash or noise, and it clearly doesn't have any force like an electromagnetic catapult to damage the ship by.

They saw the gaunt figures separating and rising out of the water as they retreated shoreward, and one of them raised the camera-like generator of the Heat-Ray. He held it pointing obliquely downward, and a bank of steam sprang from the water at its touch. It must have driven through the iron of the ship's side like a white-hot iron rod through paper.
This is the moment the Martians realise there is a danger. They have realised, most likely, that the massive gun on the bow of the Thunderchild, even silent, is similar to those on the Channel fleet. They have allowed the gunners to get within point blank range. The British fleet had bad gunnery in the 1890s, but bad in the context of technology having outstripped their traditions. At this range it does not matter; they are within smoothbore cannon shot of the Martians already! They can lay the gun in and hit with it against an object of that size, about the same size as the floating targets they might have practiced against, at similar ranges.

Thunderchild has no side armour. Speaking from a heat transfer perspective, this is critical to her vulnerability. The massive battleships of the Channel Fleet bear 12 inches of thick belt armour along the waterline. The Heat Ray would have required thirty-two times, at minimum, the length of time to cut through the plating of Thunderchild to cut through the armour belt of a Majestic. Considering that the beam does not project long enough to do more than, based on the great mass of steam, destroy a single boiler room (thus most likely two of Thunderchild's eight boilers), and that the internal bulkheads prevent the propagation of damage to her other boiler rooms, engine room, and steering gear, it is clear that some measure of protection of the Channel Fleet from Martian fire is possible.

A flicker of flame went up through the rising steam, and then the Martian reeled and staggered. In another moment he was cut down, and a great body of water and steam shot high in the air. The guns of the Thunder Child sounded through the reek, going off one after the other, and one shot splashed the water high close by the steamer, ricocheted towards the other flying ships to the north, and smashed a smack to matchwood.
So what is that first flicker of flame? Let's look at the sequence: Flicker of flame is first, second the Martian reels and staggers; third the Martian falls. Fourth, the Guns of the Thunderchild going off in the reek. So what is the flicker of flame? It isn't more damage from Thunderchild, it's clearly her main gun. A single shot, but point-blank range and well placed. The first Tripod has been struck down by a shell from a 14-inch blackpowder rifle. That gun will get only one shot in the battle, but it has done its duty.

But no one heeded that very much. At the sight of the Martian's collapse the captain on the bridge yelled inarticulately, and all the crowding passengers on the steamer's stern shouted together. And then they yelled again. For, surging out beyond the white tumult, drove something long and black, the flames streaming from its middle parts, its ventilators and funnels spouting fire.
Thunderchild's cellular internal structure and the immense armour around the barbette has prevented a magazine explosion from destroying her. With at least half of her boilers intact, she is still driving at speed and under power. Her target is the almost awash Martian tripod directly ahead of her. She is driving in to ram. The Captain knows that if he fouls those legs, knocks her into the water, she is finished. His wounded ship is capable of this even with her main gun still desperately reloading.

She was alive still; the steering gear, it seems, was intact and her engines working. She headed straight for a second Martian, and was within a hundred yards of him when the Heat-Ray came to bear. Then with a violent thud, a blinding flash, her decks, her funnels, leaped upward. The Martian staggered with the violence of her explosion, and in another moment the flaming wreckage, still driving forward with the impetus of its pace, had struck him and crumpled him up like a thing of cardboard. My brother shouted involuntarily. A boiling tumult of steam hid everything again.

"Two!" yelled the captain.

Everyone was shouting. The whole steamer from end to end rang with frantic cheering that was taken up first by one and then by all in the crowding multitude of ships and boats that was driving out to sea.
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Her magazine exploded from directed fire of the Heat Ray ultimately cutting through the armour. It's possible the Martian had been repeatedly firing to cut through the armour, but it shows that ultimately the Heat Ray is a heat ray. It can burn through armour if it has enough time. So while armour prolongs your survival, simple iron and steel do only that; something more sophisticated would be required to properly turn the Heat Ray. Thunderchild's magazine explosion is, like most, not completely destructive to the structure of the ship. Dead, she carries on the last distance and destroys the second Tripod unambiguously. More ambiguous is what happened to the third Tripod.

Where is it? Why wasn't it firing?

The steam hung upon the water for many minutes, hiding the third Martian and the coast altogether. And all this time the boat was paddling steadily out to sea and away from the fight; and when at last the confusion cleared, the drifting bank of black vapour intervened, and nothing of the Thunder Child could be made out, nor could the third Martian be seen. But the ironclads to seaward were now quite close and standing in towards shore past the steamboat.
The Third Martian has been destroyed; destroyed by the reek of the guns going off in the smoke. They cannot see it, because the 4.7-inch secondary battery was more than able over a period of several minutes of firing to place at least one shell on the foremost part of the third tripod -- and as demonstrated at Shepperton, this alone was able to destroy one of the Tripods. The reason the Captain was gearing up to ram the last is because his 4.7-inch guns could not bear on her, and from his vantage point he knew his secondary battery had destroyed the third tripod. In fact, in her last moments, Thunderchild's crew died hoping they could live, fighting for their lives: Had she rammed the Tripod only a minute earlier at most, had she possessed only a few more knots of speed, Thunderchild would have rammed and destroyed the last tripod she was fighting, and with only one watertight compartment compromised, made her way out to sea to take stock of her damage and live to fight another day.

In fact, the Battle off the Blackwater was neither hopeless nor doomed; as it was, both forces annihilated each other, but the British came very close to outright winning.

The little vessel continued to beat its way seaward, and the ironclads receded slowly towards the coast, which was hidden still by a marbled bank of vapour, part steam, part black gas, eddying and combining in the strangest way. The fleet of refugees was scattering to the northeast; several smacks were sailing between the ironclads and the steamboat. After a time, and before they reached the sinking cloud bank, the warships turned northward, and then abruptly went about and passed into the thickening haze of evening southward. The coast grew faint, and at last indistinguishable amid the low banks of clouds that were gathering about the sinking sun.

Then suddenly out of the golden haze of the sunset came the vibration of guns, and a form of black shadows moving. Everyone struggled to the rail of the steamer and peered into the blinding furnace of the west, but nothing was to be distinguished clearly. A mass of smoke rose slanting and barred the face of the sun. The steamboat throbbed on its way through an interminable suspense.

The sun sank into grey clouds, the sky flushed and darkened, the evening star trembled into sight. It was deep twilight when the captain cried out and pointed. My brother strained his eyes. Something rushed up into the sky out of the greyness--rushed slantingly upward and very swiftly into the luminous clearness above the clouds in the western sky; something flat and broad, and very large, that swept round in a vast curve, grew smaller, sank slowly, and vanished again into the grey mystery of the night. And as it flew it rained down darkness upon the land.
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Nothing of aerial craft capable of engaging the fleet is mentioned. The description of this device is as a rocket projecting, most likely chemical weapons such as spores for the red weed, or re-deploying more landing capsules and tripods. Based on the description of the battle, the fleet reached the limit of tripods that it could see, turned around, which is explicit, and steamed back south. Why? I suspect they were defending Shoeburyness with desultory firing against an evening or night attack, to buy yet another day for the city. There is no indication that the Channel fleet was destroyed or otherwise suffered casualties. In the longer term, the danger to it is the loss of spare parts and fresh ammunition.

This battle was functionally won; like at Dunkerque in our timeline, an intact Channel fleet successfully screened an evacuation. A small, old ship sacrificed herself gallantly destroying three Tripods; the toll from the battle may have in fact been more, especially during the opening salvoes against the Martians when it is certain they were in range. The Tripods are not invincible nor magical, and direct fire weapons are limited in replying at the range of 12-inch shellfire. Even 3-inch guns, orders of magnitude smaller, can destroy Tripods, and it is certain that the larger guns must have done so on that day.
 

Captain X

Well-known member
Osaul
I'd really love to see this battle on screen some day. And not some modern re-interpretation, either, but a period piece. I know the BBC is putting out a new version of this that looks to be set in that period, but given the appearance of the tripods, and the reputation of the BBC in general lately, I'm not real confident about how it will turn out.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
Yeah, my recollection of the Tripods was that a lot of their danger came from, well, their paratrooper like qualities.

They dropped all over the place, and then from there were able to move around rapidly. Whenever the humans did manage to get a field battle, they did better.
 

Hlaalu Agent

Nerevar going to let you down
Founder
I remember hearing such things before. And from what I understand the Tripods would have been utterly trounced if they had invaded by World War I since by that time there would be sufficient indirect fire capability to blow them up from range, plus the fact that you could attack them aerially.
 

JagerIV

Well-known member
I remember hearing such things before. And from what I understand the Tripods would have been utterly trounced if they had invaded by World War I since by that time there would be sufficient indirect fire capability to blow them up from range, plus the fact that you could attack them aerially.

Eh, not really. At least assuming the heat ray has the capacity of roughly a laser with line of sight range. The most comely sited hight for the Martian Tripod is about 100 feet, and "as fast as a flying bird", though given the nature of the book, everything has a degree of uncertainty.

Calculated from the head height, 30 meters gives a sight line of about 20 km to the horizon. Much lower of course in valleys, higher with hills. Most field guns have a range of about 5-10 km, with mostly only large siege weapons getting anything like 20 km. Even assuming the heat ray is only 20 meters up, that's still a 16 km line of sight. If the heat ray can engage full line of site, it can outrage most things.

It certainly would out range most things effective range. Taking the as fast as a bird statement literally, that would be a speed of about 30-50 kmh (20-30 mph). Which is respectable for a large ground vehicle, especially if that is over a wide variety of terrain and it can maintain accurate grappling and shooting while at such speeds. at the 400 m/s ish muzzle velocity of most artillery, it takes a shell about 20-30 seconds to travel 10 km. A tripod moving at 30 kmh, for a low end speed, is moving 8 meters a second, and so by the time the shell arrives the tripod could have moved about 240 meters.

Likewise, attacking them aerially is probably the absolute worst way you could attack them: unless your ground skimming, your giving the martian a long line of sight to shoot them down. A plane has effectively no armor, so even if the heat ray gets weaker at range, it doesn't really matter because it takes so little firepower to bring one down. Burning through inches of steel as was necessary to destroy the thunderchild burning down a plane is not. Plus, the protection speed and distance normally provide aircraft is pretty mute: hitting planes has traditionally been difficult due to all the lead and ballistic calculations necessary due to the large time lag between firing a shell and it reaching the plane, combined with the large distance chance the plane can make in that time. With a heat ray, assuming laser like function, if the martian can get the plane in the crosshairs he will hit, no need for any fancy calculations or target leading.

The Martain tripod is I think best thought of as a space version of this:

1280px-M551_Sheridan%2C_Joint_Readiness_Training_Center.JPEG


Its a light, air dropable, high mobility paratrooper equipment. Its key to effectiveness is high speed and a powerful gun. With the air dropable nature of it allowing you to put something with that much speed and firepower somewhere you don't expect it. But, it only has fairly thin alluminum armor to fall back on if the speed and firepower don't let it win the fight before the enemy is even really aware there is one.

The tripods are probably actually fairly light vehicles, despite their size: most of that is after all legs: given how limited their armor is, they may only be 30-40 ton vehicles. Which makes sense that you'd want to cut down on weight for an interstellar invasion force: I think they suggested there were only 4-5 tripods per shell to start with.

So, true, not ideal to break through the western front, but the whole point of their strategic mobility is that you don't let anything like a western front form. You land on the outskirts of Berlin, Paris, and Moscow and burn the telephone and rail lines and launch poison gas into the downtown government sectors. Then you keep moving and destroying targets of opportunity.
 

Francis Urquhart

Well-known member
Antony Preston identified the Thunder Child as HM Torpedo-Ram Polyphemus, more on the basis that she was the only ship of the type the RN possessed than anything else. He also described Polyphemus as one of the world's worst warships. Polyphemus was in service from 1885 to 1903 so the dates fit. She didn't have a big gun, her most powerful gun was a one-inch Nordenfelt, but she did have five 14 inch torpedo tubes. Assuming this to be correct, I wouldn;t think she shot up one of the Tripods, she torpedoed it, blowing off one leg and dropping it in the water.

Be that as it may (and the idea that the British may have bought the Thunder Child from the yard building her is entirely plausible) the story and analysis of the battle is on-point and extremely well-written. It would be at home in a naval college as a lesson in how to put unreliable and contradictory data into a logical and plausible framework. Complimentus Magnus!!!
 

Quickdraw101

Beware My Power-Green Lantern's Light
I remember hearing such things before. And from what I understand the Tripods would have been utterly trounced if they had invaded by World War I since by that time there would be sufficient indirect fire capability to blow them up from range, plus the fact that you could attack them aerially.
By world war two they'd be utterly outclassed by the tanks and artillery being fielded by both sides, let alone how outnumbered the martians would be had they arrived around that time. It's even worse when aircraft are factored in.
 

Husky_Khan

The Dog Whistler... I mean Whisperer.
Founder
I'm a little disappointed. Where is Tom Cruise in all this and how does he work into the analysis?

He was in Japan. Didn't you see the end of The Last Samurai?

All of the warrior menfolk of the Japanese province he was living in were tragically killed in battle except for him and after getting the blessing of the Emperor, he returned to Katsumoto's village to comfort the many grieving war widows like he did with Taka, Katsumoto's sister. Needless to say, Captain Nathan Algren will be regrettably very busy consoling the many very lonely exotic submissive Japanese war widows. :sneaky:

I am sure he carries out his dutiful obligation (nightly) with a heavy heart but someone must carry on Katsumoto's legacy.
 

Francis Urquhart

Well-known member
He returned to Katsumoto's village to comfort the many grieving war widows like he did with Taka, Katsumoto's sister. Needless to say, Captain Nathan Algren will be regrettably very busy consoling the many very lonely exotic submissive Japanese war widows. :sneaky: I am sure he carries out his dutiful obligation (nightly) with a heavy heart but someone must carry on Katsumoto's legacy.

It was a dreadful job, but somebody had to do it . . . . .
 
D

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Thank you all for the kind reception. I based the height of the tripods on the Martian description relative to church steeples.
 

Battlegrinder

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Obozny
The depiction of the martians in the original book ve later works and particularly the cruise movie has always bothered me. In the orginal book, as noted, they're not invincible, merely superior, but they can still lose conventional engagements. In later adaptations, that tends to be scaled up into complete invulnerability....for some reason. In the book, having the military show up really made it worse, because for all thier valor and occasional victories, they were still getting crushed and thier best effort wasn't good enough.

In the tom cruise version, having the military show up just made them look dump, because we know they can't possibly do anything to meaningfully harm or fight back. There's no tragedy to it, we're just watching them get themselves killed for no gain.
 

Francis Urquhart

Well-known member
I think it comes from a general assumption that "having 'powers' equals invincible". that's subverted in J.K. Rowling's books (I think) where somebody says "a muggle with a shotgun beats a wizard with a wand". It's certainly and quite deliberately subverted in The Salvation War where 'powers' are almost completely irrelevant when faced with superior science and engineering. H.G. Wells realized this and gave the Martians distinct liabilities including (IIRC) almost complete inability to counter indirect fire. A line-of-sight heat ray is great unless there is a hill in the way.

There was another story "The Way Not Taken" that picks up the same line. That posits the secret to interstellar travel is very simple, so simple that Ancient Greek or Roman level technology could achieve it. As a result, societies discover the secret and concentrate on developing and refining it. Only, people on Earth didn't find it and concentrated on other areas of science. When the space invaders (whose art of war is essentially 17th century) land on Earth they get their asses handed to them. (IIRC they landed in Camp Pendleton which didn't go well for them).
 

FriedCFour

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There was another story "The Way Not Taken" that picks up the same line. That posits the secret to interstellar travel is very simple, so simple that Ancient Greek or Roman level technology could achieve it. As a result, societies discover the secret and concentrate on developing and refining it. Only, people on Earth didn't find it and concentrated on other areas of science. When the space invaders (whose art of war is essentially 17th century) land on Earth they get their asses handed to them. (IIRC they landed in Camp Pendleton which didn't go well for them).
I believe it was army forces that showed up. I think it was just a normal city, they show up, volleyfire down a peace envoy and then the army mows them down in seconds.

Just reread the story. It's Army, the landing is on UCLAs campus, they blow away the envoy that includes LAs mayor, then are slaughtered by the military.
 
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Francis Urquhart

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I believe it was army forces that showed up. I think it was just a normal city, they show up, volleyfire down a peace envoy and then the army mows them down in seconds. Just reread the story. It's Army, the landing is on UCLAs campus, they blow away the envoy that includes LAs mayor, then are slaughtered by the military.
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I found it as well. https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf. You're quite right, sorry about the inaccuracy; its been years since I'd read it. I always thought this was one of Turtledove's better stories. It drives home just how lethal modern weaponry is compared with kit from only a few generations ago. In some ways, it forms an interesting counterpoint to H.G. Wells story. War Of the Worlds is sort of half way between the old days and the modern warfare exhibited in Way not Taken. I couldn't help thinking, based on the Captain-General's analysis that, even in the War of the Worlds era, its quite likely the humans would have won eventually, albeit at horrible cost. And then may the gods help the Martians.

You know, there's some good fan fiction ideas there. . . .
 

FriedCFour

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\

I found it as well. https://eyeofmidas.com/scifi/Turtledove_RoadNotTaken.pdf. You're quite right, sorry about the inaccuracy; its been years since I'd read it. I always thought this was one of Turtledove's better stories. It drives home just how lethal modern weaponry is compared with kit from only a few generations ago. In some ways, it forms an interesting counterpoint to H.G. Wells story. War Of the Worlds is sort of half way between the old days and the modern warfare exhibited in Way not Taken. I couldn't help thinking, based on the Captain-General's analysis that, even in the War of the Worlds era, its quite likely the humans would have won eventually, albeit at horrible cost. And then may the gods help the Martians.

You know, there's some good fan fiction ideas there. . . .
It's a great story. Had an RP setting inspired by it that got shelved where whales are discovered to be interdimensional travelers and via whale oil ships can travel to these dimensions, occurring around the scramble for Africa. Something about pith helmed brits with martini henrys fighting for territory among aliens and interdimensional horrors just sounds great to me.
 

Francis Urquhart

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Oh dear. Still. I'm quite sure we can do better than that. The really interesting thing, though, is the impact the fighting would have on history throughout the 20th century. I very much doubt that WW1 would have happened and that would probably take out WW2 as well, at least in the form that we know it. In fact a 2019 historian in the WoW timeline might well argue that the Martian Invasion ultimately did humanity a great favor. Suddenly, I'm getting interested in this.
 
D

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I actually think it might have led to Imperial Federation because the Dominions and Ireland could demand political parity with England after the London area was wrecked, and England would want the Dominions to actually pay their fair share of Imperial defence, so the two things making it impossible in our timeline would be removed.

And the UK wouldn’t necessarily lose premier power status because it has a grip on Martian technology to reverse engineer.
 

S'task

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And the UK wouldn’t necessarily lose premier power status because it has a grip on Martian technology to reverse engineer.
That's making a major assumption that they COULD reverse engineer it. Even if we assume they could identify what things are made of, that doesn't mean they could replicate them. Give early 20th century scientists infinite money and a bunch of early 21st century tech and, well, there's no way they could replicate it, and may potentially even have trouble understanding it. The electronic systems in a smartphone would be completely beyond them to analyse, to say anything of duplicate. Plastics, more modern metal alloys and processing (if the Martians were using Titanium rather than Aluminum they would be SOL for replicating anything) also serve as MASSIVE hurdles for late 19th century science to replicate. Also, the Martians clearly had some form of high energy capacitors or generators to run their Heat Rays off of... and given those weapons showing we with our MODERN tech couldn't replicate them or even begin to figure out an energy supply system for them.

Possibly the MOST replicatable weapon the Martians had was the Black Smoke, as that appears to be a simple chemical weapon and thus able to be broken down and analyzed by turn of the 19th century technology... but the Black Smoke is actually a TERRIBLE weapon for those who know how it works, since it can be dispersed with just steam. The chemical weapons that we ended up using in WW1 are arguably just flat out better weapons than the Black Smoke, as they don't have an easy counter. Heck, if Black Smoke is neutralized by vaporized water, it may even have reduced effectiveness in high humidity areas. In fairness, this is actually a logical weakness to the weapon, given it was developed on a mostly cold desert planet where 100% humidity is likely an alien concept.

Another thing to bear in mind is that many of the Martian's technologies may also be hard to understand since they used divergent technology bases. There's a reason Martians use walkers after all, they eschew the wheel.

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One thing you are forgetting though, in your long term analysis, is that the Martians never planned on limiting themselves to their Fighting Machines. They did have other support machines, one of which would potentially made the entire Royal Navy Obsolete: the Flying Machines. If these even had a fraction of the capability of the Fighting Machines and featured downward pointing Heat Rays and decent maneuverability, these would have been a near complete out of context problem for the Earth at the time, as heavier than air flight was still very much a dream (the first successful heavier than air flight was still about 5 years off at the time the novel was published).

As an interesting aside, there's an old hybrid Strategic and RTS computer game based on War of the Worlds and the Jeff Wayne Rock opera that actually does tend to side in some respects with your analysis. Basically, the British warships are, in fact, hell against Martians War Machines and can typically handle considerable numbers of them and are, arguably, the single most powerful unit in the game. That said, they DO have a weakness to Martian Flying Machines as they cannot easily target the flying craft which allows them time to destroy the ships.
 

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