The Homeless; is it their own fault?

[Terthna]

So, I've been homeless before. I've stayed at a homeless shelter before. It kind of sucked.

One of the things that stands out to me the most, is that the most part of the people at that shelter, were visibly making bad decisions and/or had horrible attitudes. Several of them were literally comparing the shelter to a prison, because it had rules (no fighting, no weapons, etc), and also, some of them were visibly massively fat.

There were also some people who clearly were just in a bad spot, and actively looking for jobs/trying to get out of the situation. Those tend not to be the kind of people who end up as chronically homeless.

The reason I was there myself, was a mixture of rough circumstances, and me making bad decisions in response to those rough circumstances.

I saw far too many people though, that were obviously chronically staying at such places, and were outright resentful of the people providing them.

Simply put, some people are unwilling to accept any kind of rules that they don't decide for themselves, and some people are not willing to work a lick more than they have to to survive.

Yes, some people are poor, unemployed, or outright homeless because of circumstances beyond their control. Most people though, if they are in those circumstance long term, are in them because they made (and usually are continuing to make) bad decisions, and they refuse to learn.

Meanwhile I've volunteered handing out food to the homeless for years, know some of them personally, and my experience tells me that the vast majority of those who are homeless are in that situation through no fault of their own. I think you had a bad experience, and that's colored your perspective on the homeless. Sure, there's a couple of bad eggs (some really bad), but from what I've seen most of them are kind, intelligent people who did little if not nothing to deserve their current situation.

 

[Lanmandragon]

Like any other group of people it depends on specifics. Which is why each person should be judged inividually.

 

[FriedCFour]

Meanwhile I've volunteered handing out food to the homeless for years, know some of them personally, and my experience tells me that the vast majority of those who are homeless are in that situation through no fault of their own. I think you had a bad experience, and that's colored your perspective on the homeless. Sure, there's a couple of bad eggs (some really bad), but from what I've seen most of them are kind, intelligent people who did little if not nothing to deserve their current situation.

https://www.innovations.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Baumohl%20and%20Huebner.pdf

did anyone force a bottle or drugs into their system? Because most homeless have significant abuse problems of these substances.

 

[Emperor Tippy]

Ignoring those with mental health issues (who really should be in care facilities, but you can blame Kennedy for deciding that reforming asylums was just too hard and instead shutting them all down), most people who are in extreme poverty in the US are in that situation because of their own poor life choices.

Granted, they may have made those poor life choices because their family/school/environment failed them in the past but the direct cause of their situation is choices that they have made.

I urge everyone to put all expenses on a credit card for a month and, at the end of the month, go through and see what you bought and whether or not it was worth it. You will be amazed how much money you are throwing away on what are essentially pointless luxuries or indulgences.

Do you buy candy/soda in the check out aisle at the grocery store? Congratulations, that is a dollar or two that you throw away.

Do you buy coffee every day instead of making it yourself? Congratulations, that is a hundred or so dollars per month that you are drinking away.

Do you buy lunch instead of bringing a bag lunch? That is a hundred plus dollars per month.

For someone making fifteen to twenty bucks an hour, these are all non-trivial expenses. And lets not get started on the death sticks and alcohol.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Ignoring those with mental health issues (who really should be in care facilities, but you can blame Kennedy for deciding that reforming asylums was just too hard and instead shutting them all down), most people who are in extreme poverty in the US are in that situation because of their own poor life choices.

Granted, they may have made those poor life choices because their family/school/environment failed them in the past but the direct cause of their situation is choices that they have made.

I urge everyone to put all expenses on a credit card for a month and, at the end of the month, go through and see what you bought and whether or not it was worth it. You will be amazed how much money you are throwing away on what are essentially pointless luxuries or indulgences.

Do you buy candy/soda in the check out aisle at the grocery store? Congratulations, that is a dollar or two that you through away.

Do you buy coffee every day instead of making it yourself? Congratulations, that is a hundred or so dollars per month that you are drinking away.

Do you buy lunch instead of brining a bag lunch? That is a hundred plus dollars per month.

For someone making fifteen to twenty bucks an hour, these are all non-trivial expenses. And lets not get started on the death sticks and alcohol.

Huh, I don't think many people even realise those stuff are luxuries on the basis that it's not super-fancy enough like all those rich people's stuff on TV

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

https://www.innovations.harvard.edu/sites/default/files/Baumohl%20and%20Huebner.pdf

did anyone force a bottle or drugs into their system? Because most homeless have significant abuse problems of these substances.

Nobody chooses to become a drug addict; hard drugs like heroin exploit human neurology too well for them to be anything other than horrifically addictive. That said, people choose to put themselves into situations where those drugs are present, and choose to consume them.

It's a difficult question, and not one I feel can be very generalized.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Nobody chooses to become a drug addict; hard drugs like heroin exploit human neurology too well for them to be anything other than horrifically addictive. That said, people choose to put themselves into situations where those drugs are present, and choose to consume them.

It's a difficult question, and not one I feel can be very generalized.

Choice isn't worth much against your environment

That said, they need rehabilitation in a hospital, will have to go cold turkey and educated and reintroduced to society instead of being allowed to roam the streets wherein more drugs will be pushed into them.

 

[FriedCFour]

Nobody chooses to become a drug addict; hard drugs like heroin exploit human neurology too well for them to be anything other than horrifically addictive. That said, people choose to put themselves into situations where those drugs are present, and choose to consume them.

If you choose to do them and then choose to do them again and again you choose to be an addict.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

If you choose to do them and then choose to do them again and again you choose to be an addict.

It's hard to stop being an addict

Free will isn't exactly worth much in the face of adversity and bodily addictions & needs

 

[Doomsought]

Sometimes they are not at fault because they are so mentally ill that they can't really take care of themselves, those people need an insane asylum, but can't get in one for whatever reason.

Some have gone into drugs so far that they are nearly indistinguishable from the first group.

There are a couple other groups, but I have the impression that they in total are a minority. Those that are down on their luck but will recover. Those who have been rendered homeless because they fell into legal troubles that they can't get out of, like child support. Those that are only technically homeless becuase they live out of a vehicle such as a person spending their retirement traveling around in an RV.

 

[FriedCFour]

It's hard to stop being an addict

Free will isn't exactly worth much in the face of adversity and bodily addictions & needs

It’s hard to stop being one. You still choose to be one in the first place.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

It’s hard to stop being one. You still choose to be one in the first place.

What if it was jammed into you by somebody else?

Drug pushers and dealers and other criminals can do that to get a constant buyer and somebody they can push around

 

[FriedCFour]

What if it was jammed into you by somebody else?

The only ones where you can remotely make that argument would be opioid addicts off prescribed opioids and other drugs of that nature.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

The only ones where you can remotely make that argument would be opioid addicts off prescribed opioids and other drugs of that nature.

You replied before my edit above about how people can be forcibly addicted

Also, that sounds like a case of medical malpractice

 

[FriedCFour]

Drug pushers and dealers and other criminals can do that to get a constant buyer and somebody they can push around

I sincerely doubt that is true, that they will force a needle into a random person on the streets arm until they become forcibly addicted.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

I sincerely doubt that is true, that they will force a needle into a random person on the streets arm until they become forcibly addicted.

What about if they abduct that person and then forcibly addict him/her to drugs?

 

[FriedCFour]

What about if they abduct that person and then forcibly addict him/her to drugs?

You’re just talking nonsense now.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

You’re just talking nonsense now.

They don't do that with human trafficking?

 

[LordsFire]

You’re just talking nonsense now.

There are cases where that actually happens. It usually involves much nastier crimes too though, like forced prostitution or outright kidnapping and trafficking.

Addiction is a choice though. It is often a very hard choice once you're already in it, but it is still a choice. Treating it like it's basically unbeatable, is the first step in making it unbeatable, and telling people it's not under their control is helping trap them there, not let them out of it.

If they try and fail, and try and fail, and try and fail, but keep trying, they'll be able to make it out eventually, if they are genuinely trying.

To say otherwise, is to rob them of their agency, their ability to make their own choices, and thus their dignity. Don't do that to people.

Life is tough. Coping with that is hard. If it hadn't been for God, I'd have committed suicide a decade ago most likely, I know life is hard.

Acting like people don't have agency until circumstances are less difficult, just about guarantees that their circumstances will keep getting more difficult.

Yes, there are a number of poor and homeless people who just flat-out need to be institutionalized for their own good, but trying to make programs oriented around them, that enable the people who aren't in those kinds of circumstances, isn't doing anyone favors.

 

[Shipmaster Sane]

The steep majority of the Chronically homeless are mentally handicapped, so technically speaking it may not be their "fault" considering they're certifiably incompetent. They're the people who used to fill asylums. We went from a poor solution (asylums) to no solution at all (just let them wander the streets till they die).

Those persons without mental handicaps, who are not drug abusers (the majority of the remaining minority after the first group) do not stay homeless perpetually.