There is something about homosexuality that triggers a gut-level revulsion in many people, in a way that most other sins simply don't. It's not that they "just hate gays", it's that we find gays and gayness disgusting.
Religion The ethics of disowning degenerate family members
There is something about homosexuality that triggers a gut-level revulsion in many people, in a way that most other sins simply don't. It's not that they "just hate gays", it's that we find gays and gayness disgusting.
So? Finding something disgusting is not a moral defense. If someone finds a racial mixing disgusting, that doesn't legitimize kicking out their kid for dating that race. Same for gays. But thanks for admitting not doing this because of religious belief, but instead because of homophobia. Finding gays disgusting, and acting on that, is exactly what homophobia refers to. Different bigotries manifest in different ways. For gays, its a fear/disgust reaction. For blacks, it's a contempt/disgust. For jews, it's fear/jealousy. All of which can evolve into hatred.
I haven't kicked anyone out of my house, nor defended others doing that, so careful with those accusations there, kiddo.
Telling people that they are wrong to be disgusted by disgusting things? Do you even human?
By doing, I should have said supporting.
And no, I'm not saying you've done something morally wrong, just that you are homophobic, as gays disgust you. From your own quote, it wasn't just gay sex that disgusted you, but gays themselves. That's what homophobia is. Just like if you found jews disgusting you'd be antisemitic.
If you don't act on this, I really don't care, tbh. But I'm still going to call a spade a spade, especially when it starts describing itself as a shovel.
Curved_Sw0rd
Just Like That Bluebird
Is the act of disowning one's own flesh and blood going to propel such a wayward son or daughter towards God, though? I can imagine it might in some very limited cases, but it's much, much easier to follow that through to a different result. That child has the absolute worst day of their life, love and familial ties severed, thrust into a fire state of early independence at the least and homelessness at the very worst. It would almost always come off as a betrayal of the highest order imaginable.
That's a recipe for resentment, if not outright rejecting God for the cold clinical embrace of Dawkins.
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
"Why aren't you loving God after I told you that he'll send you to hell?"
This. It amounts to pretty much giving up on them. Which isn't something anyone should do lightly, or before trying seriously to turn them right.
Let me quote some words of Jesus:
If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
In the modern world, this seems to have gotten twisted into either immediately forgiving, with no repentance needed, or going straight to making the offender an outcast, with no repentance sought or accepted.
Even the person who is being shunned by the whole community there, should be welcomed back if he seeks it.
Repentance and Forgiveness are concepts very central to Biblical Christianity. But contemporary Churchianity seems to treat both as optional.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
Save your kids from a fuckload of useless debt? Sounds like good parenting to me.
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
Failing college implies you already have the debt.
Shipmaster Sane
You have been weighed
One year of debt is better than five.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
There are justifiable reasons for a parent to kick out a child. A teenager who, for example, molests a younger child or a child so violent or destructive that he puts his family in danger.
Being gay isn’t in that category though. Well, I’m not a Christian and I don’t have a moral objection to homosexuality, so I would especially object to parents disowning gay kids, but even for behaviors that I do think are bad, a parent shouldn’t disown a minor unless that minor is dangerous.
Parents have a moral and societal obligation to take care of their children, to guide and teach them, to help them to grow into adults, and to provide for their well-being to at least a minimum level. This isn’t a matter of baking wedding cakes. A baker has no obligation to bake a cake for another adult and is justified in turning away customers for any reason. That is radically different from a parent rejecting a minor child.
If a child or teen is doing bad things, self destructive things, then parents should take action. But not kicking the kids out of the house and leaving them with nothing! A kid with those sorts of problems needs the guidance of a parent then more than ever. What kind of parent stabs their kid in the back when the kid needs them the most?
Now, once the child is a legal adult, then it is a little different. At that point, a parent is no longer obligated to provide for and guide the child, who is now an adult. But, it may still be the best thing to stay in touch with your wayward adult child and be there for them. Entirely cutting a loved one loose, child or adult, is likely to put them in greater risk of negative influence. I would say that it is best to maintain your relationship without actively supporting misbehavior.
I’m an atheist, but I don’t dislike what is sometimes called “the religious right.” They are generally nice people who are well intentioned and live healthy lives. That said, I think that they can sometimes be hypocrites about homosexuality. I say this because there are so many “sinful” behaviors that are common place in our society, often that cause massive harm to society, that many religious people don’t seem to care much about, but they make a big deal about gays. I think that this happens in large part that those other destructive sins are things that religious people actively commit or at least struggle with, but if you’re straight and not attracted to members of the same sex, then resisting that “sin” is no difficulty at all.
How many of the parents who kick out their gay kids act sinfully themselves from time to time? 100% that’s how many.
Being gay isn’t in that category though. Well, I’m not a Christian and I don’t have a moral objection to homosexuality, so I would especially object to parents disowning gay kids, but even for behaviors that I do think are bad, a parent shouldn’t disown a minor unless that minor is dangerous.
Parents have a moral and societal obligation to take care of their children, to guide and teach them, to help them to grow into adults, and to provide for their well-being to at least a minimum level. This isn’t a matter of baking wedding cakes. A baker has no obligation to bake a cake for another adult and is justified in turning away customers for any reason. That is radically different from a parent rejecting a minor child.
If a child or teen is doing bad things, self destructive things, then parents should take action. But not kicking the kids out of the house and leaving them with nothing! A kid with those sorts of problems needs the guidance of a parent then more than ever. What kind of parent stabs their kid in the back when the kid needs them the most?
Now, once the child is a legal adult, then it is a little different. At that point, a parent is no longer obligated to provide for and guide the child, who is now an adult. But, it may still be the best thing to stay in touch with your wayward adult child and be there for them. Entirely cutting a loved one loose, child or adult, is likely to put them in greater risk of negative influence. I would say that it is best to maintain your relationship without actively supporting misbehavior.
I’m an atheist, but I don’t dislike what is sometimes called “the religious right.” They are generally nice people who are well intentioned and live healthy lives. That said, I think that they can sometimes be hypocrites about homosexuality. I say this because there are so many “sinful” behaviors that are common place in our society, often that cause massive harm to society, that many religious people don’t seem to care much about, but they make a big deal about gays. I think that this happens in large part that those other destructive sins are things that religious people actively commit or at least struggle with, but if you’re straight and not attracted to members of the same sex, then resisting that “sin” is no difficulty at all.
How many of the parents who kick out their gay kids act sinfully themselves from time to time? 100% that’s how many.
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Fleiur
Well-known member
That wasn't my experience. I was able to do that while living at home. Why is it necessary to live on campus?
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
There are some people who benefit more from living away from parents and the safe space of familiarity/home to develop their social skills. I'd say generally living away from parents during college years is a healthy choice. Unfortunately paying for a dorm is a fucking rip off that colleges have been milking with bullshit like "college experience" and "dorm life" and trying to make colleges/universities insular communities.
If you have a good social life/healthy relationship with parents (they give you space, mutual respect, etc.) and are only going to college for the degree and post-graduating networking opportunities, then by all means live as cheaply as possibly and stay at home.
Theyre homeless because the adult LGBT people who groom them and rape them and condition them to not see pedophilia and predation as what they are, often convince them its safer to be homeless than with their own blood.
Sometimes they're right, but that.doesnt alter the reality the Alphabet soup is largely responsible for the darkest chapters of its own history and has a serious,serious problem with child sexual abuse and grooming.
One that is glorified no less.
almostinsane
Well-known member
True enough. Though, you can't deny that many of those same kids were also tossed out by their parents. Gay culture being toxic regarding the age of consent and parents throwing out their kids aren't mutually exclusive. Rather, I think there's a symbiotic relationship there.
Oh I dont dispute it at all! Hell near where I live a black American Family burned their son to death for coming out about a decade before I bought my house.
Father was a local pastor and it was a bit of a shitstorm in the local news.
These poor kids are being slammed from both sides of this and suffer immensely as a result. But to claim its only the Christian's when the lionshare of the abuse comes from the predatory adults who "are just helping then explore" is a bit much.
And its not just gay kids over 80% of trans kids that have cropped up over the last decade are molested and groomed into it.
Again I restate these poor kids are being degraded in horrific ways from both ends of this but I reserve my rage for the group that the media presents as positive and morally virtuous for raping, brain washing and destroying innocent life.
Not the one we already condemn and whose responsibility is often overstated.
edit- So none of the lefties or the Rino Squad can call me a homophobe.
Anyone who disowns their kid solely because they happen to be gay is an abomination against evolution, nature and mocks God in the doing. Our job is to proliferate our genetic material and then ensure the hardiest of our children proceed to pass that material on..I do think..pruning the family tree of fuck ups is a good thing..but you wait til they're an adult, give them as many chances as you can reasonably give them and if they remain a fuck up? Then you kick them to the curb and isolate them from the rest of their siblings so they can't become an anchor that drags down the viable ones.
One of my kids bats for both teams, it's never been an issue, except that she tends to fall for neurotic people far too often for my liking...I told her from the start, it didn't matter to me.
But that if she got into pride culture and became a militant? if she was so weak to let her sense of self become defined solely by who she fucks? I'd be heart broken..but she'd be out on the streets.
But that has more to do with pride culture being incredibly destructive, harmful to the LGBt community and me not wanting my girl raped...Or associating with pedophiles..
And the closest thing heterosexuals have to it are cults or Antifa and in all fairness, I'd straight up eject then slap a restraining order on any one of my straight kids who got into any of that.
Disowning Degeneracy applies to both genders and all three orientations. And you only do it if all hope is lost...admitting that all hope is lost as a parent is the hardest, most despairing thing you can do..but if you love your children..you do it..to protect those who aren't and in the forlorn hope the one who you have to cut loose..will learn from the experience and grow.
Never take 'em back..but you can be happy for them from afar.
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ShieldWife
Marchioness
I’m not sure if your causality is going the right direction. I don’t know if a teenager with a good relationship with their parents is going to voluntarily become homeless because they were groomed by a gay adults. In fact, if that did happen, they probably wouldn’t be homeless, they would be taken in by the pedophile/ephebophile.
Far more likely is that homeless minors, including gay ones, are far more vulnerable to being grooms, molested, or otherwise exploited.
When it happens over a period of several years though? Most of these kids don't get nudged, its a slow thing and involves peer pressure and trends as much as it does predatory conduct by adults.
The sheer volume of autistic children who come out as trans say otherwise, not that I don't agree, that the desperate are subject to the worst abuses.
Fleiur
Well-known member
Developing social peer groups? You started to develop that the moment you go out and play with your neighbours. During preschool, elementary through high school. You can still do that in college while staying at home. I don't see how you cannot do that.
Like I said, the parents should monitor their kids. It is nessesary while it is also beneficial in a practical sense.
It's overall working out things together as a family.
Guncannon
Pessimistic Pilot
I didn't say develop social peer groups. Nice reading skills, your monitoring parents help you with those?