Culture The Downfall of New Atheism

[CarlManvers2019]

So they don't believe in God, but really they do? And they want to rebel, but will convert to the most conformist religion there is? You think European will give up their hedonism?

They’ll turn to a more “social” hedonism

They’ll be looking down on lots of people who even enjoy a Dresden Files book while looking for a way to be exalted for beating up some “heretic” or something

Their “rebellion” isn’t based on genuine grievance, but a sort of “fashion” they want to catch up to for its own sake

 

[Fleiur]

They’ll turn to a more “social” hedonism

They’ll be looking down on lots of people who even enjoy a Dresden Files book while looking for a way to be exalted for beating up some “heretic” or something

Their “rebellion” isn’t based on genuine grievance, but a sort of “fashion” they want to catch up to for its own sake

And Islam will be fashionable forever?

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

And Islam will be fashionable forever?

no but by the time progressives move on, Islam will have a strong enough foothold to take down any opposition from essentially punks and hipsters. That's typically how this plays out.


EDIT: (Most) Progressives are oft shallow but they are easily controlled by fear and rage. Look how fast they crumple when people capable of force actually do a follow through. The police were able to clear CHAZ in like two hours once the police were actually allowed to commit to action. if mere cops can make them crumble like that, imagine how fast they will they bow to religious zealots with nailbombs and machineguns

 

[Lanmandragon]

no but by the time progressives move on, Islam will have a strong enough foothold to take down any opposition from essentially punks and hipsters. That's typically how this plays out. Progressives are oft shallow but they are easily controlled by fear and rage. Look how fast they crumple when people capable of force actually do a follow through.

The police were able to clear CHAZ in like two hours once the police were actually allowed to commit to action. if mere cops can make them crumble like that, imagine how fast they will bow to religious zelots with nailbombs and machineguns

Yep because they won't give a shit about PR crap. Instead they'll just kill them enmass until they comply.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Yep because they won't give a shit about PR crap. Instead they'll just kill them enmass until they comply.

And they will remember, that the stuff with Gandhi only worked because those "British Imperialists" were so surprisingly nice given the circumstance

 

[Fleiur]

So like I said, they will be forced.

 

[Lanmandragon]

So like I said, they will be forced.

Some the thing here is the people who follow these ideologies are sheep. More then you'd believe will just bow to whatever authority exists. Not just in Europe but humans in general critical thinking and self discipline are unfortunately rare.

 

[Fleiur]

Some the thing here is the people who follow these ideologies are sheep. More then you'd believe will just bow to whatever authority exists. Not just in Europe but humans in general critical thinking and self discipline are unfortunately rare.

It takes strong values and convictions to overcome that nature. Hedonism and nihilism cripples civilizations.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Some the thing here is the people who follow these ideologies are sheep. More then you'd believe will just bow to whatever authority exists. Not just in Europe but humans in general critical thinking and self discipline are unfortunately rare.

Objectivism's the answer, unfortunately it and libertarianism are labeled fascism or social darwinism

Being religious doesn't prevent you from being a moron like Pope Francis who is well-intended but indoctrinated

 

[Urabrask Revealed]

You think European will give up their hedonism?

Not like being a muslim requires giving that up. Drinking wine is excused, even if their "holy" scripture forbids it, for example. In the middle east they fuck animals and boys, even tho their book forbids that too on pain of death. Don't get me started on where women stand in their societies.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

It takes strong values and convictions to overcome that nature. Hedonism and nihilism cripples civilizations.

Not like being a muslim requires giving that up. Drinking wine is excused, even if their "holy" scripture forbids it, for example. In the middle east they fuck animals and boys, even tho their book forbids that too on pain of death. Don't get me started on where women stand in their societies.

Basically, they're idea of a more "moral society" will be one that violently rejects many things that don't even directly affect people or is just fiction or books.

All while embracing an obsession with "justice" that resonates with the previous Far Left culture/mindset.

Which is, to with barely any effort, show yourself to be "better" than someone else while brutalizing and/or ruining that person's life.

A joy that no amount of drugs, sex, money and alcohol can bring. A sense of "superiority" to others alongside the sheer APPROVAL you will get from everybody else for even doing something in the back of your mind, after much deeper introspection, know to be extremely cruel.

It's a pleasure that comes from unearned pride that also gives the person an illusion of "purpose"

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Eurabia is coming and it's already to late to prevent it.

Not really. There'll be serious civil unrest and perhaps civil war at worst if things keep on going as they are (which isn't even a certainty), but a total Islamic take over of Europe isn't going to happen. Maybe I could see partition of some sort after a series of bloody wars if things got outlandishly bad, but that's a stretch. The Ottoman Empire at its mightiest struggled to keep the Balkans under control from day 1, and this new wave of would-be Muslim conquerors, who (let's be fair) do not even make up the majority of the diaspora, do not have that level of logistics or resources. Even the Islamic world that could back them up is a shadow and an echo of the old caliphates and the power of Istanbul.

The 21st century is going to be a god damn mess but it won't be as dark as some believe. Indeed, the real concern is what happens when the debt based economy runs its course? That's something I'm not looking forward to.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Not really. There'll be serious civil unrest and perhaps civil war at worst if things keep on going as they are (which isn't even a certainty), but a total Islamic take over of Europe isn't going to happen. Maybe I could see partition of some sort after a series of bloody wars if things got outlandishly bad, but that's a stretch. The Ottoman Empire at its mightiest struggled to keep the Balkans under control from day 1, and this new wave of would-be Muslim conquerors, who (let's be fair) do not even make up the majority of the diaspora, do not have that level of logistics or resources. Even the Islamic world that could back them up is a shadow and an echo of the old caliphates and the power of Istanbul.

The 21st century is going to be a god damn mess but it won't be as dark as some believe. Indeed, the real concern is what happens when the debt based economy runs its course? That's something I'm not looking forward to.

They double down on socialism, but find that the population stopped giving a shit about PC-ness and started being so extremely openly “selfish” in both the enlightened and more traditional sense

 

[Lord Sovereign]

They double down on socialism, but find that the population stopped giving a shit about PC-ness and started being so extremely openly “selfish” in both the enlightened and more traditional sense

How can they though? There's no more loans to prop themselves up anymore. From my perspective, the House of Cards would come crashing down soon after as they simply don't have the cash to keep their social programs running. Then it'll be left to the poor saps in 22nd century to pick up the pieces. I don't know what sort of economy they'd build, but I think massive borrowing would be taboo.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

How can they though? There's no more loans to prop themselves up anymore. From my perspective, the House of Cards would come crashing down soon after as they simply don't have the cash to keep their social programs running. Then it'll be left to the poor saps in 22nd century to pick up the pieces. I don't know what sort of economy they'd build, but I think massive borrowing would be taboo.

They print as much cash as possible and keep pretending the problem isn’t occurring

Failing that, they invade Poland and Hungary after what they call a Far Right Terrorist attack in order to get whatever resources its got and redistribute it as a momentary distraction

They didn’t think this far ahead

 

[Fleiur]

Not like being a muslim requires giving that up. Drinking wine is excused, even if their "holy" scripture forbids it, for example. In the middle east they fuck animals and boys, even tho their book forbids that too on pain of death. Don't get me started on where women stand in their societies.

I ask because Carl seems to be saying that Europe will become worse than the Middle East. In reply, he says that even things like the Dresden Files will be looked down upon. I find those statements to be exaggerations, though I think Eurabia is certainly possible.

Probably worse off than the Middle East, but simply put I can see fanaticism and fundamentalism or sheer zeal attracting all the local atheists and local Judea-christian types to them, both because they lack any devotion, not even to themselves, but want a "God" or "philosopher king" and wanna be a "minority"

They’ll turn to a more “social” hedonism

They’ll be looking down on lots of people who even enjoy a Dresden Files book while looking for a way to be exalted for beating up some “heretic” or something

Their “rebellion” isn’t based on genuine grievance, but a sort of “fashion” they want to catch up to for its own sake

 

[almostinsane]

Failing that, they invade Poland and Hungary after what they call a Far Right Terrorist attack in order to get whatever resources its got and redistribute it as a momentary

That isn't how economics work. There is far more debt than whatever wealth they can steal from all of Eastern Europe.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

That isn't how economics work. There is far more debt than whatever wealth they can steal from all of Eastern Europe.

Well, you gotta keep the population distracted somehow

I ask because Carl seems to be saying that Europe will become worse than the Middle East. In reply, he says that even things like the Dresden Files will be looked down upon. I find those statements to be exaggerations, though I think Eurabia is certainly possible.

I say worse than the Middle East, because I've heard it said before that the kids of muslim migrants have at times gone way more "serious" regarding their faith than their more westernized parents

And the Middle East at the very least is slowly progressing in some stuff

The guys invited in en masse may end up having a sort of reaction that involves getting really fucking pissed at whatever they can call "immoral" so that even reading fiction like the Dresden Files or Lord of The Rings could receive a fine or two or at least censors requiring even fictional female characters wear burkas

But yeah, I do think even I'm exaggerating and for this dystopia to occur may take a few decades

 

[Fleiur]

Objectivism's the answer, unfortunately it and libertarianism are labeled fascism or social darwinism

Being religious doesn't prevent you from being a moron like Pope Francis who is well-intended but indoctrinated

Objectivism is not human nature. There is nothing to compel people who make it to the top to continue playing fair. Ayn Rand completely misses how her belief that no one should be altruistic can and will end badly.

As for religious, people, I wouldn't use Pope Francis as an example of them. He is clearly a useful idiot corrupted by leftist influences.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Objectivism is not human nature. There is nothing to compel people who make it to the top to continue playing fair. Ayn Rand completely misses how her belief that no one should be altruistic can and will end badly.

As for religious, people, I wouldn't use Pope Francis as an example of them. He is clearly a useful idiot corrupted by leftist influences.

Being "Altruistic" means you even will fall for Hitler. There exists a "selfish" care/love and it's NOT the "altruistic" kind, it's one that involves putting more thought in it of a sort, like with Equality 7-2521 and Liberty 5-3000 and Equality 7-2521 being "selfish" didn't mean he put off society entirely.

He just went about planning on helping it the smart way, given that even approaching the City, as a known criminal could lead to his death and chose to wait for guys who aren't mentally chained down. And he reinvented electricity only for them to get-issued at that, regardless of his good intentions, because it'd make him "better" than everybody else.

Religion, Nation, Family, Race, the PRAISE of others etc

Those are all forms of collectivism and if it's man's nature to chain oneself for a "higher cause" even should it and its followers go astray, then I pity those men

Pope Francis has good intentions and believes he is right and follows a sort of code he believes is right. As far as he's concerned, God's on his side and the EU and the Far Left. His desire for that "higher cause" or his "altruism" blinds him from actually truly caring about others.

Besides, it's not as if the values of the first Synagogues in Ancient Israel and Judea were always compatible with those of even the 1950s and much theocratic debate required stuff like the base of very educated Rome to even begin to be contemplated and spread. Slavery was a thing long before after Jesus and in the end it required people using logic trying to find a different way with the Bible to decide slavery was wrong even if guys in the Old Testament did it with no lectures from God.

Mankind's weapon against tyrants of the mind are freedom, logic and actual weapons. But most of all logic, without said thorough thinking, you can't question or reform what's long been taught or go against your leaders decisions.