King Krávoka
An infection of Your universe.
*Slaps @Husky_Khan's face with a war bond* "Like" retracted for incursion by that foul word.
Culture The Downfall of New Atheism
- Thread starter Husky_Khan
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ParadiseLost
Well-known member
Oh, God.
Catholicismaboos.
You wanna bring back indulgences? Prosecuting people for simple scientific realities like "the earth revolves around the sun"? The church being a wing of the state that's easily manipulatable and controllable?
Also, over time Catholicism drastically changed the theology of the Church.
Also, there were no Catholics (in the modern sense) in the 4th century.
Catholicismaboos.
You wanna bring back indulgences? Prosecuting people for simple scientific realities like "the earth revolves around the sun"? The church being a wing of the state that's easily manipulatable and controllable?
Also, over time Catholicism drastically changed the theology of the Church.
Also, there were no Catholics (in the modern sense) in the 4th century.
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This shit again? Galileo wasn't prosecuted for his statement, he was prosecuted for insulting his patron, the very Pope himself, within his statements. The Pope only took the earth-centric model because the numbers added up. Galileo ran on the assumption the world is a perfect sphere rather than a round rock, and that fucked his math up. Rather than admit he made a mistake, he started flinging insults against anyone who disagreed and angered a lot of influencial people.
ParadiseLost
Well-known member
@Urabrask Revealed
Nonsense. Galileo's heliocentrism was why he was prosecuted. His insults to the Pope didn't help his situation, but they weren't the why.
"(1) The sun is the center of the world and completely devoid of local motion.
Assessement: All said that this proposition is foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts many places the sense of Holy Scripture, according to the literal meaning of the words and according to the common interpretation and understanding of the Holy Fathers and the doctors of theology.
(2) The earth is not the center of the world, nor motionless, but it moves as a whole and also with diurnal motion.
Assessment: All said that this proposition receives the same judgement in philosophy and that in regard to theological truth it is at least errouneous in faith."
The primary result of his trial was such:
"Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy" (though he was never formally charged with heresy, relieving him of facing corporal punishment[97]), namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions."
- Galileo Galilei - Wikipedia
The idea that Galileo wasn't tried for heliocentrism is absurd.
Nonsense. Galileo's heliocentrism was why he was prosecuted. His insults to the Pope didn't help his situation, but they weren't the why.
"(1) The sun is the center of the world and completely devoid of local motion.
Assessement: All said that this proposition is foolish and absurd in philosophy, and formally heretical since it explicitly contradicts many places the sense of Holy Scripture, according to the literal meaning of the words and according to the common interpretation and understanding of the Holy Fathers and the doctors of theology.
(2) The earth is not the center of the world, nor motionless, but it moves as a whole and also with diurnal motion.
Assessment: All said that this proposition receives the same judgement in philosophy and that in regard to theological truth it is at least errouneous in faith."
The primary result of his trial was such:
"Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy" (though he was never formally charged with heresy, relieving him of facing corporal punishment[97]), namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions."
- Galileo Galilei - Wikipedia
The idea that Galileo wasn't tried for heliocentrism is absurd.
The Name of Love
Far Right Nutjob
What you are leaving out of your little prooftext of Wikipedia is that Galileo wasn't tried for presenting heliocentrism as a scientific theory, but for presenting it as the correct outcome based on Scripture at a time when the Catholic Church was at war with a sect of Christianity that believed in Private Revelation (Protestantism). Furthermore, Galileo had previously given his word that he wouldn't teach heliocentrism, a promise that he broke. He had no scientific evidence for his claims.
As St. Bellarmine said: "While experience tells us plainly that the earth is standing still, if there were a real proof that the sun is in the center of the universe… and that the sun goes not go round the earth but the earth round the sun, then we should have to proceed with great circumspection in explaining passages of scripture which appear to teach the contrary, and rather admit that we did not understand them than declare an opinion to be false which is proved to be true. But this is not a thing to be done in haste, and as for myself, I shall not believe that there are such proofs until they are shown to me." Again, Galileo had no proofs.
Edit: Great book about Galileo I recommend highly.
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This is not quite right. Galileo had proof and models and they even accurately predicted the motion of the sun and planets over the short term. The fundamental problem with his model was that over the long term they no longer did while a form of hybrid model (one in which the Sun and Inner Planets revolved around the Earth while the Outer Planets revolved around the Sun) could make predictions with high levels accuracy out to hundreds of years. This discrepancy was, as others noted, because Galileo thought that all orbits were perfect circles. It was not until Kepler and his calculations showing orbits were elliptical that the heliocentric model became the most accurate model of the solar system.