The Consoomer Menace

[King Krávoka]

For those who say I'm just a holier-than-thou dehumanizer, I'm not speaking about anything I haven't struggled with myself these last two years.

Those aren't like, exclusive behaviors. What is the word for "the amplification of contempt for the violators of a taboo from guilt over personal violation of it", like with stereotypical armored closet gays? There has to have been a monk who noticed it some hundred years ago.

I can better understand the inert blindness & defiant ignorance of the reactionaries from having been one of them. I know how smugly ignorant I was. . . I really had thrown all that haughty, complacent, snobbish, self-centred, intolerant bull, & at a mature age when anybody but a perfect damned fool would have known better! . . . It's hard to have done all one's growing up since 33—but that's a damn sight better than not growing up at all.

 

[Certified_Heterosexual]

Those aren't like, exclusive behaviors. What is the word for "the amplification of contempt for the violators of a taboo from guilt over personal violation of it", like with stereotypical armored closet gays? There has to have been a monk who noticed it some hundred years ago.

You could literally use that comparison to deride anyone who ever had a change of heart about their life. Forgive me for not taking your comparison seriously. If anything, the fact that I once fell into the consoomerist trap should make my testimony even more credible, since you know that when I rail against it I'm acting in defiance of my own innate preference.

Seriously, why are you even in this thread? Your only contributions have been so many repetitions of "let people enjoy things" and "le enlightened individualist" third-rate libertarian guff.

 

[Terthna]

You're acting like a jerk. Stop acting like a jerk.

Perhaps a bit; but I believe it's called for, in this instance.

Consumerism and corporate elitism go hand-in-hand though. Large corporations want you to get addicted to their shitty products so that they can keep insulting you while expecting you to wait on hand and foot to buy the next product. See, nerds and geeks were a large part of the Progressive Hierarchy; they constituted a group of "oppressed" people, freaks shunned by society in spite of their intelligence. However, around the time of Gamergate, the Progressive hierarchy decided to backstab geeks and nerds. "Gamers are dead" they said. That's why there's a tension where there wasn't before. The Gamergaters are basically people who want the Left to go back to how it was in the 90s because then they'd be left alone to play their video games and consume their products in peace. But the corporate overlords are like "NO, BUY THIS SJW NONSENSE AND LIKE IT!" Most nerds go along with it too. Why? Because they're consoomers who can't live without their consumer products. Even if it's crappy SJW stuff.

Stop obsessing over the latest trends made by corporations and do something productive. I made a list.

It's a nice list, I even agree with much of it. Exercise and going outside regularly is a good idea; so is spending some time improving yourself. I just think a balance is better than simply abandoning what you enjoy. As for giving money to corporations that keep pushing SJW nonsense; I have more self-respect than that.

 

[King Krávoka]

You could literally use that comparison to deride anyone who ever had a change of heart about their life. Forgive me for not taking your comparison seriously. If anything, the fact that I once fell into the consoomerist trap should make my testimony even more credible, since you know that when I rail against it I'm acting in defiance of my own innate preference.

I wasn't trying to attack you.

Seriously, why are you even in this thread? Your only contributions have been so many repetitions of "let people enjoy things" and "le enlightened individualist" third-rate libertarian guff.

Give me a breakdown on how that's all I've been saying. After you get some sleep, it's 1:33 CST and that's probably making you irritable.

 

[Scottty]

Ironically there is a decent argument buried underneath all the rhetoric and condemnation; a lot of people have come to believe that corporations have a right to your time and money.

Wait, what?

Thing is, I don't think you can blame that on consumption; they're not addicts trying to protect their dealers. It's simply an exercise in elitism. That some people are just better than everyone else by merit of their wealth, station, or popularity, and therefore deserve to have total control over every facet of your life. The corporation is always right, not because it produces things that you consume, but because they are a corporation, and thus more important than you.

That is starting to sound a bit like some strange religion.

 

[GoldRanger]

I don't think it's time to raise the bloody flag and start singing the Marseillaise just yet?

Clearly this man doesn't have much support for his opinions. So you're right. Not yet.

 

[The Name of Love]

Perhaps a bit; but I believe it's called for, in this instance.

No, it really isn't. YeahOkayCool is making a sound moral critique of consumerism and the consoomers. You are just being defensive.

It's a nice list, I even agree with much of it. Exercise and going outside regularly is a good idea; so is spending some time improving yourself. I just think a balance is better than simply abandoning what you enjoy. As for giving money to corporations that keep pushing SJW nonsense; I have more self-respect than that.

Then why do you disagree with YOC?

That is starting to sound a bit like some strange religion.

It's called Woke Capitalism. It's one of the main reasons why many on the Right are abandoning libertarianism. Capitalists were supposed to be a bulwark against left-wing radicalism. Instead, they are the ones pushing for it.

Clearly this man doesn't have much support for his opinions. So you're right. Not yet.

Please, stop LARPing as a violent revolutionary. Nobody believes you.

 

[Big Steve]

@YeahOkayCool Thank you for your replies, I think it'll help me ask what I'm about to.

As I've said, I've written millions of words of it in the last several years, despite my full time job (I'm an overnight security officer at a call center). About 920,000 of those words were in what is certainly the kind of fanfic that comes off as the most indulgent and least likely to be of creative value, specifically, a "self-insert" fanfic (the only one I've written actually).

Despite that, I've had people over the years (I wrote it from about Christmas 2013 to just after New Year's 2016) tell me that the fic in question inspired them or gave them an uplifting emotional reaction. It made them feel better. Last March someone on SB left a message on my user profile that while they hadn't finished it yet, the fic had already "dragged them kicking and screaming out of depression".

Would you consider any such result a sign of something productive being done by someone? There is no monetary compensation, certainly. But do you think a productive result is still present if your work, as silly or indulgent as it is, produces a genuine emotional reaction in people up to and including aiding them in getting through depression? Can an artist be productive with their hobby even if they receive no pecuniary gain, so long as their work has literary merit and produces an emotional reaction in others?

 

[Big Steve]

Clearly this man doesn't have much support for his opinions. So you're right. Not yet.

Oh for Christ's sake...

Just because people think you should live a certain way and criticize you for failing to live up to their standards doesn't mean they're going to tyrannize you to force you to those standards. It means... they're criticizing you for something they consider a personal or moral failing! That's it!

I may criticize someone for drinking too much alcohol, but the act of criticism does not mean I want to restore the 18th Amendment!

 

[The Name of Love]

Oh for Christ's sake...

Just because people think you should live a certain way and criticize you for failing to live up to their standards doesn't mean they're going to tyrannize you to force you to those standards. It means... they're criticizing you for something they consider a personal or moral failing! That's it!

I may criticize someone for drinking too much alcohol, but the act of criticism does not mean I want to restore the 18th Amendment!

@GoldRanger is virtue signaling about how much of a tough guy he is. He'll fight and die for his right to do anything he wants... all the way from Israel, a place most of us don't even live in. Riiiiiiight.

From what I can tell, he thinks that any attempt to impose a moral standard onto him, even through peaceful dialogue on the Internet, is wrong. As such, he'll react about as rationally as a social justice warrior. In fact, he said that if supporting the right means giving up what he wants, he'll become a leftist.

 

[GoldRanger]

Oh for Christ's sake...

Just because people think you should live a certain way and criticize you for failing to live up to their standards doesn't mean they're going to tyrannize you to force you to those standards. It means... they're criticizing you for something they consider a personal or moral failing! That's it!

I may criticize someone for drinking too much alcohol, but the act of criticism does not mean I want to restore the 18th Amendment!

Isn't criticism the first step toward a forced change in behavior though? I mean, nowhere in this thread did I see the guy showing any respect to the right of these "consoomers" to consume however they see fit, even though he may not like it. I'm sorry but I have to say I find it difficult to believe that people with this mindset are going to leave everyone alone if they ever get close to power.

 

[LordsFire]

Isn't criticism the first step toward a forced change in behavior though? I mean, nowhere in this thread did I see the guy showing any respect to the right of these "consoomers" to consume however they see fit, even though he may not like it. I'm sorry but I have to say I find it difficult to believe that people with this mindset are going to leave everyone alone if they ever get close to power.

So, you're going to make us all to shut up by force of arms then? Because you're criticizing almost everybody else on this thread.

For people with any kind of well-rounded understanding of psychology or philosophy, criticism does not necessitate escalation towards violence.

 

[The Name of Love]

Isn't criticism the first step toward a forced change in behavior though? I mean, nowhere in this thread did I see the guy showing any respect to the right of these "consoomers" to consume however they see fit, even though he may not like it. I'm sorry but I have to say I find it difficult to believe that people with this mindset are going to leave everyone alone if they ever get close to power.

Okay, let's assume the guy is every bit as authoritarian as you say he is. So what? You haven't refuted his argument at all.

Why shouldn't he be allowed to impose his morals on you? Can you prove consoomers have the right to consume how they see fit? Justify your beliefs. Argue for them. If you're a liberal, then surely you believe in the power of rational argumentation and the free market of ideas, right?

 

[King Krávoka]

This thread wasn't about Libertarianism until OP brought it up in a way that implied there was some sort of conflict between him and people who believe reduced governmental interference in human lives was a good thing.
Can we euthanize this thread? It's just been a series of failed deescalation attempts after a shitty first page.

 

[LordSunhawk]

The Boot here, weighing in. This thread breaks no rules and is therefore not going to be euthanized, killed, squashed, crushed, folded, spindled, mutilated, or forced to watch Eikan.

 

[The Name of Love]

This thread wasn't about Libertarianism until OP brought it up in a way that implied there was some sort of conflict between him and people who believe reduced governmental interference in human lives was a good thing.
Can we euthanize this thread? It's just been a series of failed deescalation attempts after a shitty first page.

If you like, I could start a separate libertarian thread discussing libertarianism.

 

[King Krávoka]

If you like, I could start a separate libertarian thread discussing libertarianism.

I'd really like it if we refrained from having masterthreads for political positions be made by people with obvious distaste for them.

 

[The Name of Love]

I'd really like it if we refrained from having masterthreads for political positions be made by people with obvious distaste for them.

Fair enough. I mean, I just keep seeing this debate between libertarians and conservatives popping up time and again, and I'd like to have a debate on the matter on this website.

 

[LTR]

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[Certified_Heterosexual]

DON'T ASK QUESTIONS; JUST CONSOOM POAST AND THEN GET EXCITED FOR NEXT POAST