Movies Starship Troopers: The bugs did nothing wrong

[IndyFront]

Fascism without socialism is not fascism. Socialism is a fundamental aspect of fascism, regardless of whether you are talking about Mussolini, Pavelic, or even Hitler (who is about as much of a fascist as Stalin was, btw).

Lol I see you lot are continuing to ignore the part where I said fascistic. FASCISTIC =/= FASCIST.
And you can absolutely have fascism without socialism, did Hitler suddenly stop being fascist after he purged the socialists from the party and seized absolute power? Why did Hitler purge socialists from the Nazi party?
So Hitler decided to eliminate Rohm and the Strasserists, in order to consolidate his own power - eliminating them allayed the fears of the Germany Army and the upper classes of German society, and removed rivals to his own position. He didn't automatically stop being a fascist after he did this.

 

[Zachowon]

Lol I see you lot are continuing to ignore the part where I said fascistic. FASCISTIC =/= FASCIST.
And you can absolutely have fascism without socialism, did Hitler suddenly stop being fascist after he purged the socialists from the party and seized absolute power? Why did Hitler purge socialists from the Nazi party?
So Hitler decided to eliminate Rohm and the Strasserists, in order to consolidate his own power - eliminating them allayed the fears of the Germany Army and the upper classes of German society, and removed rivals to his own position. He didn't automatically stop being a fascist after he did this.

...NAZI means the National Socialists......
He purged socialists that didn't agree with him.
Like Stalin purged communists who didn't agree

 

[Agent23]

...NAZI means the National Socialists......

Narional-Socialist German Workers Party.
to be exact.

He purged socialists that didn't agree with him.
Like Stalin purged communists who didn't agree

Yeah, and trade unions and more government control were part and parcel of the whole thing.

But lots of people make an exception for some of those that larp like them and eant to destroy what the Nazis considered under people while desiring a totalitarian state and call them "Nazis".

It is all turning in a pointless game of linguistics, and the left loves to stretch the definition onto "anyone who doesn't agree with us".

That does not mean that there aren't some Austrian painter enjoyers with violent tendencies around.

 

[Zachowon]

Narional-Socialist German Workers Party.
to be exact.

Yeah, and trade unions and more government control were part and parcel of the whole thing.

But lots of people make an exception for some of those that larp like them and eant to destroy what the Nazis considered under people while desiring a totalitarian state and call them "Nazis".

It is all turning in a pointless game of linguistics, and the left loves to stretch the definition onto "anyone who doesn't agree with us".

That does not mean that there aren't some Austrian painter enjoyers with violent tendencies around.

Exactly.
The entirety of the Nazi ideals was a socialist state that was run on nationalist grounds. In contrast to communism where you just made them all hate thier lives while spewing bullshit.

 

[Aldarion]

Lol I see you lot are continuing to ignore the part where I said fascistic. FASCISTIC =/= FASCIST.

"Fascistic" is a meaningless term, because to the Left it means "whatever does not conform to my particular brand of socialism". So to Communists, democracy is "fascistic", monarchy is "fascistic", traditionalism is "fascistic", nationalism is "fascistic", and so on. Including brands of Communism they don't like as well. Josip Broz Tito purged significant elements of Croatian Communist Party because they were "fascists", while at the same time letting actual "fascists" (as in, Serbian extremist nationalists) join the ranks of his movement.

Either they are fascist, or they are not. "Fascistic" is a buzzword with no meaning.

And you can absolutely have fascism without socialism, did Hitler suddenly stop being fascist after he purged the socialists from the party and seized absolute power? Why did Hitler purge socialists from the Nazi party?

Hitler never was fascist, he was Nazi. NSDAP - Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Or in English, National Socialist German Worker's Party.

And Nazi Germany didn't suddenly stop being socialist state because Hitler "purged socialists". Because he didn't. He purged a faction of Nazi Party, but socialists consistantly do internal purges - Tito also purged Partisans from people he saw as enemies, including several factions of socialists. Stalin purged Communist Party from Trotskytes. Pol Pot purged... 25% of Cambodian population. He would have purged more if Vietnamese hadn't stopped him.

Are you going to say none of them were socialists, simply because they murdered other socialists?

So Hitler decided to eliminate Rohm and the Strasserists, in order to consolidate his own power - eliminating them allayed the fears of the Germany Army and the upper classes of German society, and removed rivals to his own position. He didn't automatically stop being a fascist after he did this.

You cannot stop being something you never were in the first place. Hitler never was a fascist, how could he stop being one?

And he sure as hell didn't stop being a socialist either.

 

[King Arts]

"Fascistic" is a meaningless term, because to the Left it means "whatever does not conform to my particular brand of socialism". So to Communists, democracy is "fascistic", monarchy is "fascistic", traditionalism is "fascistic", nationalism is "fascistic", and so on. Including brands of Communism they don't like as well. Josip Broz Tito purged significant elements of Croatian Communist Party because they were "fascists", while at the same time letting actual "fascists" (as in, Serbian extremist nationalists) join the ranks of his movement.

Either they are fascist, or they are not. "Fascistic" is a buzzword with no meaning.

Hitler never was fascist, he was Nazi. NSDAP - Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Or in English, National Socialist German Worker's Party.

And Nazi Germany didn't suddenly stop being socialist state because Hitler "purged socialists". Because he didn't. He purged a faction of Nazi Party, but socialists consistantly do internal purges - Tito also purged Partisans from people he saw as enemies, including several factions of socialists. Stalin purged Communist Party from Trotskytes. Pol Pot purged... 25% of Cambodian population. He would have purged more if Vietnamese hadn't stopped him.

Are you going to say none of them were socialists, simply because they murdered other socialists?

You cannot stop being something you never were in the first place. Hitler never was a fascist, how could he stop being one?

And he sure as hell didn't stop being a socialist either.

Serbian ultranationalists aren’t fascists though, especially since the Croatians had the Ustase who were a group that was very pro German, while the Serbs did not have as many collaborators.

 

[IndyFront]

"Fascistic" is a meaningless term, because to the Left it means "whatever does not conform to my particular brand of socialism". So to Communists, democracy is "fascistic", monarchy is "fascistic", traditionalism is "fascistic", nationalism is "fascistic", and so on. Including brands of Communism they don't like as well. Josip Broz Tito purged significant elements of Croatian Communist Party because they were "fascists", while at the same time letting actual "fascists" (as in, Serbian extremist nationalists) join the ranks of his movement.

Either they are fascist, or they are not. "Fascistic" is a buzzword with no meaning.

Hitler never was fascist, he was Nazi. NSDAP - Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei. Or in English, National Socialist German Worker's Party.

And Nazi Germany didn't suddenly stop being socialist state because Hitler "purged socialists". Because he didn't. He purged a faction of Nazi Party, but socialists consistantly do internal purges - Tito also purged Partisans from people he saw as enemies, including several factions of socialists. Stalin purged Communist Party from Trotskytes. Pol Pot purged... 25% of Cambodian population. He would have purged more if Vietnamese hadn't stopped him.

Are you going to say none of them were socialists, simply because they murdered other socialists?

You cannot stop being something you never were in the first place. Hitler never was a fascist, how could he stop being one?

And he sure as hell didn't stop being a socialist either.

Ok so you've got 1. Leftist-derangement syndrome. 2. Hitler and the Nazis weren't fascists LMFAO

Saying "iT sAyS iT iN tHEiR nAmE" is like saying North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic. It is not.

Yeah I'm done with this conversation and idiotic fantasy reasoning probably gotten from somewhere like Drudge Report or InfoWars

 

[Agent23]

Ok so you've got 1. Leftist-derangement syndrome. 2. Hitler and the Nazis weren't fascists LMFAO

Saying "iT sAyS iT iN tHEiR nAmE" is like saying North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic. It is not.

Yeah I'm done with this conversation and idiotic fantasy reasoning probably gotten from somewhere like Drudge Report or InfoWars

Would you like a pinch of pepper with your bags of salt, sir?

 

[IndyFront]

Would you like a pinch of pepper with your bags of salt, sir?

Beginning of the second paragraph, 4 different sources agree with me

 

[Agent23]

Beginning of the second paragraph, 4 different sources agree with me

>2024
>Believes Wikipedia.

Yes, Nazism is a form of fascism, which is another form of nationalist collectivism with lots of leftoid, commie inspired components.

Mussolini was a communitlst before he invented "fascism".

 

[IndyFront]

Nazism is a form of fascism

Thank you for agreeing with me. Aldarion was arguing that it wasn't. And when there's four different sources agreeing that

Nazism is a form of fascism

then Nazism is a form of fascism, regardless of whether or not its wikipedia

 

[Agent23]

Thank you for agreeing with me. Aldarion was arguing that it wasn't. And when there's four different sources agreeing that

You don't get it, both the common olcold and aids are s type of virus, are you saying they are of the same level of badness?

then Nazism is a form of fascism, regardless of whether or not its wikipedia

And dressing in Hugo Boss clothes does not make you a Nazi, it just makes you a person with good fashion sense, or gay.

Oh, and we shouldn't forget that the commie secret police had a fetish for black shiny leather, too.

And there is the whole S&M subculture those outfits helped create.

 

[Zachowon]

Behind a pay wall, but at least one can find more about it

https://www.jstor.org/stable/1855138

The book breaks down why it isn't Fascism.
And it was made closer to the two when they were at thier height then any source Wikipedia has

 

[Husky_Khan]

Ok so you've got 1. Leftist-derangement syndrome. 2. Hitler and the Nazis weren't fascists LMFAO

Saying "iT sAyS iT iN tHEiR nAmE" is like saying North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic. It is not.

Yeah I'm done with this conversation and idiotic fantasy reasoning probably gotten from somewhere like Drudge Report or InfoWars

Nazis were fascists and socialists.

There's nothing that contradicts practice of one with another.

I dunno about being fascist without a heavy amount of socialism put into it. I think a lot of forms of modern Authoritarian governments would require Big Government and State Control of many things, with the mechanism being whether its the State in cooperation with corporations and big business or the State in control of corporations and big business through nationalization or state run institutions and the like.

I'm sure you could make an argument for "Right Wing" authoritarianism when it comes to say, foreign corporations or even domestic ones having undue influence over a weak government like you'd see stereotypically in the Third World, or in earlier eras with Mercantilism/Colonialism/Imperialism and the like. And looking forward to the fears of things like Mega Corporation Oligarchies and other Cyberpunk level Corporatism perhaps.

I'm not sure you'd call it Fascism, except perhaps as an interchangeable term for generic Despotism or Dictatorships or Authoritarianism though.

 

[stephen the barbarian]

Nazis were fascists and socialists.

they were honest socialists

 

[Poe]

Exactly.
The entirety of the Nazi ideals was a socialist state that was run on nationalist grounds. In contrast to communism where you just made them all hate thier lives while spewing bullshit.

*sigh* it's like you people have no idea what socialist means and believe all civilizations that aren't liberal democracies, or at least capitalist, are socialism. The Nazi state was not socialist in any real use of the term outside of maybe Spengler. Socialist != the government controlling things or doing things for the good of citizens. It is a mode of production where the workers own the productive assets, either directly through committees or via the state proclaiming to represent the workers. Fascism, and especially Nazism, is not at all like this and the "socialism" in the name is a leftover and as the other poster said they purged all real socialists, or even socialist leaning people, out of the party. Literally one of the first things the Nazis did was privatize public services.

Like this isn't an argument to be had dude, and it's annoying seeing the handful of users here push such nonsense. Saying Nazis are socialists is like saying Spartans are socialist, at that point socialism ceases to be a meaningful term to describe societies because most every society has some aspects of "social" goods they subsidize for the citizens, definitely 90% of societies prior to the enlightenment were totally at the whim and control of the government, and all of this isn't at all what the term socialism describes.

 

[Aldarion]

Ok so you've got 1. Leftist-derangement syndrome. 2. Hitler and the Nazis weren't fascists LMFAO

Saying "iT sAyS iT iN tHEiR nAmE" is like saying North Korea is a Democratic People's Republic. It is not.

Yeah I'm done with this conversation and idiotic fantasy reasoning probably gotten from somewhere like Drudge Report or InfoWars

It is in their name. And their political program. And their actual actions.

Literally the only way for anyone to say that Nazis weren't socialists is burying head in the sand and screaming LALALA at the top of his lungs.

But you apparently think that marxists.org is an objective source.

Serbian ultranationalists aren’t fascists though, especially since the Croatians had the Ustase who were a group that was very pro German, while the Serbs did not have as many collaborators.

I know. In fact, neither Chetniks nor the Ustashi were homogenous movements... no matter how much Communists like to pretend they were.

 

[Poe]

It is in their name. And their political program. And their actual actions.

Literally the only way for anyone to say that Nazis weren't socialists is burying head in the sand and screaming LALALA at the top of his lungs.

I know. In fact, neither Chetniks nor the Ustashi were homogenous movements... no matter how much Communists like to pretend they were.

No dude, there was nothing socialist about them. Not a single thing. I'm not going to go down this route with you again, you're just objectively wrong here and no one with an actual understanding of what socialism means as an economic system or familiar with fascism and/or nazism as governmental systems would hold such fringe beliefs as what you're stating here.

The only way you can claim they were socialists is by completely ignoring what makes a society socialist, failing to grasp how 99% of societies were ran historically, and instead repeat over and over that they are while shouting with your fingers in your ears. Just because they chose a popular word to put in their name at the time (despite large amounts of their rhetoric being vehemently anti-socialist) means jack shit.

 

[Aldarion]

No dude, there was nothing socialist about them. Not a single thing. I'm not going to go down this route with you again, you're just objectively wrong here and no one with an actual understanding of what socialism means as an economic system or familiar with fascism and/or nazism as governmental systems would hold such fringe beliefs as what you're stating here.

The only way you can claim they were socialists is by completely ignoring what makes a society socialist, failing to grasp how 99% of societies were ran historically, and instead repeat over and over that they are while shouting with your fingers in your ears. Just because they chose a popular word to put in their name at the time (despite large amounts of their rhetoric being vehemently anti-socialist) means jack shit.

I am just objectively right here. But you are the one who is shouting with fingers in your ears because you are a socialist and you don't like the idea of your favorite ideology being outed as a genocidal crackpot theory that it really is.

But the fact remains that Nazis were socialist in their name, beliefs, program, political system, everything.

Look at the Communist Manifesto and try to find one thing Nazis didn't do. I dare you.

The "Communist Manifesto" was a call for totalitarianism. Its ten points are essentially a totalitarian program (points in normal, my comments in the itallics):

1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.​
   1. Nobody is allowed to own any land – all land will be owned by the State. Anyone who wants to use the land will have to pay a rent in order to use it – which is what has happened now with the tax on land.​
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.​
   1. People who earn more will pay progressively more tax. What this does is disincentivize people from earning more, ensuring that there is always a wide class of the State-dependent proletariat. The end goal is the destruction of the middle class.​
3. Abolition of all rights of inheritance.​
   1. You will own nothing and you will be happy. This point would make it impossible to pass one's own property onto children and grandchildren, as everything will belong to the State.​
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.​
   1. Nobody is allowed to oppose the Government by any means, nor to leave it should the oppression become too great. Anyone attempting to do so will have his property taken by the State.​
5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.​
   1. Nobody is allowed to do business without permission from the Government, nor to create inheritance without permission of the Government. This would be done by a creation of a national central bank with a central State fiat currency and the State monopoly. This is literally the Fascist so-called "state capitalism".​
6. Centralization of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.​
   1. Nobody is allowed to communicate with each other without permission by the State. This is clearly intended to prevent any resistance against the State.​
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.​
   1. All instruments of production are to be owned by the State, and State will organize projects according to the centrally-imposed plans made by the Government.​
8. Equal liability of all to work. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.​
   1. Individual is to be impressed into the State-managed industrial army (good example of such an organization is Organization Todt). Individual has no right to his own being and his freedom; everything he is belongs to the State.​
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of all the distinction between town and country by a more equable distribution of the populace over the country.​
   1. There can be no escape from the State. Everyone is to become a slave of the State, with no distinction allowed. This point calls for central planning of agriculture and industries as well as control over the populace.​
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.​
    1. Children will be brainwashed in the State-run schools to serve as perfect little foot soldiers for the Glorious Revolution.​

Nazis did all of the above.

They confiscated private property, established central state control of the economy, hell, they even had the Five Year Plans!

 

[Agent23]