Good, then we're moving on from your absurd idea that Starfleet can't use transporters? Finally.
Well, that's important. From what I've seen, I don't think their mobile assets are really integrated with their air defense network systems. Their base defenses certainly are, but that begs the question of what the UNSC uses for target acquisition. Obviously they have laser targeting, heat signatures, but what else? I know the UNSC prowler uses a form of radar. Satellite imagery is also another, probably with some live feeds.
Still, that's not going to be accurate enough for target acquisition. You need radar. And we know from Future's End that starfleet can hide itself from radar. Even something as large as Voyager wasn't able to be detected by using its shields. Depending on the intensity of the radar the US sends into space, that suggests that Starfleet may be able to hide something as massive as Voyager from radar. If that's the case, trying to get a radar cross section from a shielded UFP fighter or shuttle is going to be a pain.
Ok, so shuttlepod hulls are just barely strong enough to resist damage from an M2 browning. Whatever. Tanks are flat out impervious to them but still vulnerable to UNSC AA missiles, so the shuttle is toast.
Again, where is the barely strong enough?
All it managed to do was lodge itself in the hull. Shuttles have multiple layers of material. It may have penetrate a softer material and stopped at the duranium hull. The only real damage came from repeated hits from 90mm flak guns.
Again, that's not the question, or even related to the question since you're now talking about hoppers, not fighters.
It is Battlegrinder. The point is that Starfleet probably trains pilots who are capable at their given assignments. Not incompetent boobs who've never been in a warzone.
Now you're trying to mixing terms together again. Hopper pilots are trained for that rile, shuttle pilots are not. As again your own episodes note, since in Future's End Chakotay, who is trained as a shuttle pilot, proved less than amazing as a ground support pilot, having to hover around practically stationary in order to hit a slow moving semi truck.
He was also firing close to his friends and may have been nervous, given that there was a timeship onboard. Which may have had antimatter as a power source or something worse. Best to hit the front of the truck and probably not kill his friends, rather than risk hitting the timeship and vaporizing everything within a hundred mile radius.
And this proves a complement of fighters is regularly attached to all federation ground forces.....how?
What are you on about now?
We also see Klingons using batleth's a century later, are those supposed to be standard issue in the federation now too? Just because someone else has a weapon doesn't mean the federation does.
I didn't say that was the case.
UNSC Gremlin mobile electronics warfare vehicle, as I cited before, shows the degree to which UNSC forces operate with attached electronic warfare equipment, so it will be trivial to generate interference on par with, say, an electrical substation. Or a mild lightning storm. Or minute levels of nonlethal radiation, or any of the other million things that transporters cannot handle.
How is jamming communications the same as jamming a transporter? The Gremlin is mostly used as a mobile EMP cannon. I mean, what sort of effective range on transporters do you think they'll have? A few hundred meters? A dozen kilometers? You've been pressing me hard on backpacks and pockets, do you think I'm going to let you get away with something so vague?
Also, you are mischaracizing my previous argument to a borderline dishonest degree. I said starfleet ground troops don't carry the sort of equipment UNSC troops do, including basic survival gear, and pointed to the fact that they don't have backpacks or other equipment to carry that equipment. Which they don't.
They do have backpacks. I've presented 3-4 instances of them with backpacks. Literally wearing a standard issue backpack.
You then scoured all of AR-558 looking for someone who was briefly onscreen holding a backpack, and have been running around crowing about ever since, while missing my core point about starfleet troops and what it says about the overall quality of starfleet troops and what level of experience in real conflict can be taken from how they are equipped.
That was one of four examples Battlegrinder and you know it. We're all aware that they don't all have backpacks, but the fact is that we saw an example of those ground troops using backpacks. We know that Paris and Neelix both had backpacks in that shuttle accident. Worf had a backpack in Chain of Command. Nog wore a backpack in another episode.
So if they need backpacks, they'll have backpacks. It's really not a hard concept.
So no, you have no evidence for you claims about infantry weapons, but presumably should a Dominion battleship decided to pick a fight with a single UNSC tank the tank will be at a disadvantage.
Christ, this is getting pathetic Battlegrinder. You can do better than this. You asked for evidence that phasers disintegrate metal like they do biological matter and rocks. The fact is that they do. As you may have noticed in my other post from Sacrifice of Angels. The phaser beam penetrates the ship, then the material around the penetration zone is disintegrated.
We also see the same effect on phasers with rocks and human tissue. Once the phaser impacts, the energy spreads out around the impact zone. This is consistent behavior. This is probably an effect of the phaser beam affecting the nearby material and NDFing it. The fact that you find this inconvenient for your argument, is not my problem.
I don't accept the TM phaser figures as valid, because they visibly are not.
Dude, you don't accept shit from the actual TV shows, do you think any of us believe you're going to accept stuff from the TM without dragging it out of you? The TM is pretty much the best thing we have as far as consistent technology goes for Star Trek.
You forget We've actually seen setting 16, in chain of command, and it vaporized a thin rock wall. No explosive effect, no vast destruction, nothing of what you're claiming, which is a level of destruction that has simply never been seen in a star trek ground engagement. Ever.
And you're acting like that's the only time someone has used setting 16. Sisko used it to vaporize a wall, Picard, Data, and Worf blew out a large chunk of rock with their phasers. You're reaching for whatever you can to try and kneecap Starfleet.
Also. I noted that starfleet could figure out where to shoot at a tank to disable it, and never suggested that was hard, what would be hard is actually making the shot, because this fantasy scenario of phasers slicing tanks in half is just that, a fantasy and its not how phasers react to metal (that once time in TOS aside), and the tank (and it's supporting elements) are not obliged to just sit passively while you slowly cut through the armor.
Ah, of course. The classic Battlegrinder Maneuver.
"X has never done Y"
"Okay, except that one time, so it doesn't count."
And yes, Starfleet could absolutely slice through a tank, even if we only count on the beam penetrating (and of course, ignoring the vast majority of phaser effects), because the phaser discharge is .28 seconds and we know the phaser can fire for longer, because it has more than enough power to sustain the shot for at least a second. Hell, we saw Data and LaForge testing a Phaser III duplicate. That's more than enough time to slice it down the length of the tank. And it won't need to sit there passively, because it'll burrow through 24.5 meters of armor in 0.28 seconds. That's not an especially long dwell time. It's like, what, a meter a milisecond?
I did already, days ago. Have you not been paying attention at all here?
Guess not. Link it to me.
[quite]So, as a mentioned and you're not acknowledging, why are 24th century shuttle phasers weakervthsn 29th century hand phasers?
[/QUOTE]
Who says they are? The guy using the 29th century phaser probably has very little idea what he's doing. Where as Chakotay had every reason to be conservative in his use of the phasers against a truck that should have been carrying a timeship--something possibly loaded with antimatter. Why would he risk trying to nuke Tom and Rain?
en.wikipedia.org
