Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

[Agent23]

There's a very fine line these days -- unfortunately, most people, especially public figures, don't understand that's how people perceive their words/statements regardless of their intentions. shrug

Then again, there are clear cut cases, like Margot Robbie -- physically hot as fuck, but a crazy feminist through and through (though, the Barbie Movie thing was hilarious; being immediately disavowed by Mattel must have stung her ego, lol).

Feminists need to be ridiculed and disregarded, any Hollywood idiot that tries to push that shit needs to be totally ignored and have her career ruined.

Cuckservatives might have tolarated that shit, bit they are only good at losing gracefully.

 

[Bassoe]

Yeah ol sheeve had creepy pedo tones

Not really.

Palpatine's one true fetish was power and he refused to be kinkshamed for it.

In any realistic take, Palpatine had to be super careful about hiding his interest in Skywalker for exactly that reason -- he's enough of a details guy to absolutely realize that was the biggest danger, and he's certainly capable of being very, very careful to ensure his interest was percieved as, "kindly grandfather figure" and later on, "warmhearted mentor and confidant".

I am now imagining an AU where Palpatine’s whole plan crashes and burns because the galactic equivalent of Chris Hansen got the wrong idea from his meetings with Anakin.

 

[Skallagrim]

I am now imagining an AU where Palpatine’s whole plan crashes and burns because the galactic equivalent of Chris Hansen got the wrong idea from his meetings with Anakin.

There was a crackfic based almost exactly on this premise, except it's Obi-Wan and Mace, after Anakin innocently tells them about his time with ol' Sheev. They immediately and correctly conclude that it's all extremely shady, and incorrectly conclude that Palpatine is a creepy paedophile who's grooming Anakin.

But his only defence would be "no, not at all, it wasn't like that, I'm trying to manipulate him in a completely different way!" -- And so Palpy goes down in a very public scandal...

 

[The Whispering Monk]

So Palpy goes publicly...

But does Sidious get removes as the Sith Apprentice?

If so, who fills the gap, and what happens to the TL?

 

[Causeimboredrightnow]

There was a crackfic based almost exactly on this premise, except it's Obi-Wan and Mace, after Anakin innocently tells them about his time with ol' Sheev. They immediately and correctly conclude that it's all extremely shady, and incorrectly conclude that Palpatine is a creepy paedophile who's grooming Anakin.

But his only defence would be "no, not at all, it wasn't like that, I'm trying to manipulate him in a completely different way!" -- And so Palpy goes down in a very public scandal...

I remember that one, I can’t find the link anymore though. Can you link it?

So Palpy goes publicly...

But does Sidious get removes as the Sith Apprentice?

If so, who fills the gap, and what happens to the TL?

Palpatine by the time he’s the chancellor has taken care of his master. So Sidious is the Sith Master, and now he needs a new apprentice because he doesn’t have Dooku yet and is thought dead/too insane to be of use.

 

[The Whispering Monk]

Palpatine by the time he’s the chancellor has taken care of his master. So Sidious is the Sith Master, and now he needs a new apprentice because he doesn’t have Dooku yet and is thought dead/too insane to be of use.

Point. For some reason I was thinking we were still in young Anakin time. NOTHING in this supports that so...I'm just a big dummy!

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Speaking of which, it makes me wonder how things would have gone if Sidious had failed in his attempt to kill Plagueis. Similar to what happened in Darth Vader: Hero of Naboo, only without a time-travelling Darth Vader to further muddy the water, Darth Plagueis gets a bad premonition and decides to take certain precautions. This leads to Sidious making his move ala OTL, only to discover that 'Plagueis' was just an illusion, and the real Dark Lord of the Sith is behind him and very unhappy.

Assuming Darth Plagueis kills Darth Sidious - not impossible, Darth Sidious did not directly confront Darth Plagueis for a reason, and IIRC there was some mentions about how Sidious was afraid for some time that Plagueis might have a contingency in place and literally rise from the dead - how would the Grand Plan have proceeded under him? Would he still try and turn Anakin to the Dark Side? If so, would the relationship between master and apprentice be much more...healthy, or at least healthier by Sith standards than under Darth Sidious?

EDIT: Thinking on it some more, yeah, it would probably be healthier, at least by Sith standards. Darth Plagueis wanted to be rid of the Rule of Two, and a relatively-content Darth Vader probably wouldn't turn on him either. Even more so, since Darth Plagueis was somewhat willing to share his secrets, and considering how even as a Jedi Anakin already coveted power deep down (as a side-effect of his slave background) which would only grow as a Sith, Plagueis could keep him sated by that.

Especially once they've gotten rid of the Jedi, and can freely plumb the forbidden depths of the Force for the next few centuries, on a scale unseen since the reign of Darth Vitiate, or perhaps even the Infinite Empire of the Rakata.

 

[Skallagrim]

I remember that one, I can’t find the link anymore though. Can you link it?

Sorry, I can't mamage to find it, either. It's been a while since I read it. Frankly, I don't reacall it being especially great, but the premise is just so funny.

Speaking of which, it makes me wonder how things would have gone if Sidious had failed in his attempt to kill Plagueis. Similar to what happened in Darth Vader: Hero of Naboo, only without a time-travelling Darth Vader to further muddy the water, Darth Plagueis gets a bad premonition and decides to take certain precautions. This leads to Sidious making his move ala OTL, only to discover that 'Plagueis' was just an illusion, and the real Dark Lord of the Sith is behind him and very unhappy.

Assuming Darth Plagueis kills Darth Sidious - not impossible, Darth Sidious did not directly confront Darth Plagueis for a reason, and IIRC there was some mentions about how Sidious was afraid for some time that Plagueis might have a contingency in place and literally rise from the dead - how would the Grand Plan have proceeded under him? Would he still try and turn Anakin to the Dark Side? If so, would the relationship between master and apprentice be much more...healthy, or at least healthier than under Darth Sidious?

Plagueis would seek to kill Anakin, if at all possible. He (correctly) viewed this 'creation of the Force' as the response and antithesis to his own experiments, and perceived that this being would have the power to vanquish the Sith.

As far as plans went: the idea to get Dooku on board was his to begin with, and all the ground work for the Naboo crisis was there. Problem: Palpatine is now dead. We may assume events on Naboo play out as intended, even to the point of Qui-Gon still dying, so Plagueis can convince Dooku, same as Palpy did. Conceivably, instead of getting him to found the CIS, Plagueis convinces Dooku that he (Plagueis) can make Dooku Chancellor within a few years? Then Dooku can essentially take the role of Palpatine, and they find another stooge to take charge of the would-be CIS.

Plagueis would be perfectly content sharing power, after their victory. (And their victory is still very possible: Dooku being an ex-Jedi who left the order "as an idealist, to enter politics in the hope of saving the Republic" is a great cover, and would keep the Jedi from suspecting Dooku of anything for a long time.)

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Plagueis would seek to kill Anakin, if at all possible. He (correctly) viewed this 'creation of the Force' as the response and antithesis to his own experiments, and perceived that this being would have the power to vanquish the Sith.

Yes, I know this, and this would be the safest option. That said, Plagueis being Plagueis, I wouldn't put it past him to try and turn the tables again, or at least scheme to do so, while putting in place various contingencies in case it wouldn't work.

As far as plans went: the idea to get Dooku on board was his to begin with, and all the ground work for the Naboo crisis was there. Problem: Palpatine is now dead. We may events on Naboo play out as intended, even to the point of Qui-Gon still dying, so Plaguis can convince Dooku, same as Palpy did. Conceivably, instead of getting him to found the Sith, Plagueis convinces Dooku that he (Plagueis) can make Dooku Chancellor within a few years? Then Dooku can essentially take the role of Palpatine, and they find another stooge to take charge of the would-be CIS.

Plagueis would be perfectly content sharing power, after their victory. (And their victory is still very possible: Dooku being an ex-Jedi who left the order "as an idealist, to enter politics in the hope of saving the Republic" is a great cover, and would keep the Jedi from suspecting Dooku of anything for a long time.)

General Grievous, perhaps? IIRC, Darth Plagueis was also involved in what turned him into a cyborg monster, via his colleagues in the Banking Clan. Then again, even before getting flanderized, Grievous probably wouldn't have the subtlety and patience to be a political figure, and would still be better suited as a field commander.

...maybe instead of becoming co-chancellor, Plagueis takes charge of the CIS as Magister Damask, before faking his death at the end and withdrawing to the shadows, with Tyrannus and/or Vader (if he decides to and actually succeeds in subverting him) as the public face/s of the Sith?

 

[Lord Sovereign]

Makes one wonder what Darth Plagueis's Empire would have looked like, if he wasn't happy to simply puppeteer the Republic from the shadows.

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Makes one wonder what Darth Plagueis's Empire would have looked like, if he wasn't happy to simply puppeteer the Republic from the shadows.

Yeah, this is probably more likely. Character-wise, Darth Plagueis seems more the type to stay the puppeteer from the shadows, conducting the music behind the curtains, with the Republic dancing to his tune, instead of openly ruling as Sith Emperor. It would certainly make things much harder for the Jedi survivors and their allies to oppose him if the Republic remains a formal democracy. Assuming a similar Jedi Purge, the narrative of Jedi traitors plotting to overthrow the elected government and set themselves up as theocratic dictators would be so much stronger when the Senate - on the surface - retains power and is led by an elected Supreme Chancellor.

Even accusing the Sith of being the puppet masters would be difficult to pull off without any hard evidence. After all, they'd be in the position of supporting the democratic government (at least it appears that way), with Jedi attempts to get rid of them coming as just another power play, much like what they apparently to get where they ended up in.

EDIT: That, or the Jedi survivors end up rallying the Separatists and revive the CIS. The Clone Wars continues/restarts, only with the tables flipped.

 

[Zyobot]

Well, since we're talking "Darth Plagueis lives!" scenarios, perhaps this will be of interest to you all?

Author got banned a few years back, unfortunately, though what they've posted in their time on SV is quality writing and no less enjoyable. Heck, if I didn't know better, I might've assumed this was James Luceno's work, in the event he were a part-time fanfic author or something.

 

[Allanon]

The original trilogy is the real true "Star Wars."

The prequels, all right they were flawed, but they did have the original spirit and they did give us some great world-building, not to mention Anikin's anti-Hero's Journey. They also gave us a couple of great villains- when those doors opened and there was Darth Maul it was a great moment, and the actor was in fact a real martial artist. And Christopher Lee? Yeah he was old and such but he was evil in the movie and he was great.

But what exactly did the Disney "Star Wars" give us? Nothing. Years from now who will know or even care about any of it? There was absolutely no legacy from any of it. Heck, I'm the last one to speak up for J.J. Abrams, but in that third movie it was obvious he doesn't hate the fans and he did try to get things back on track, but it was hopeless at that point. Yes, it got so bad I'm standing up for J.J. Abrams!


What really depresses me is how things were. After the first "Star Wars" movie in 1977 Marvel came out with a "Star Wars" series. Since the 1980 sequel had not come out yet (obviously) that series went off in its own direction, with light saber-wielding anthro-bat women, wreckers on an ocean planet with sea dragons,* biological star ships, robots with laser swords able to match Jedi, vengeful cyborgs, flying city-ships in vortexes, space pirates in hijacked Imperial Star Destroyers, and so much more.

If you've never read Alan Dean Foster's "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" get a copy now. It was a 1978 book which amazingly took place on a swamp planet! It was eerie at times, imaginative, gave us "Old Halla," and Foster's vision of how The Force worked at that point was unique. If they had made a movie based on it and kept true to the source material it would have been a guaranteed hit.


* At one point Luke said "Why you fat-faced excuse for a leader! My friends were aboard that ship! I'm just sorry you weren't on that skimmer when I blasted it!" after he believed Chewbacca, Leia, and Han had been murdered. Imagine getting that in the comics today. Or the silhouette of a hanged man from a ship's mast in the moonlight.

 

[Husky_Khan]

But what exactly did the Disney "Star Wars" give us? Nothing.

Actually now that I think about it The Last Jedi did give us a powerful metaphorical example of the Uniparty globalist (galactic?) Elite being engaged in mass child trafficking on that Casino planet where the ethnic supporting characters had that pointless side quest freeing the space camels and recruiting the Sicario.

Shocking to think that just a few years later such stories would be suppressed by Hollyweird.

 

[Allanon]

Look, the biggest problem is that a beloved franchise is hijacked by the woke and mutated into propaganda. They have absolutely no idea of what made that franchise beloved in the first place, only a superficial understanding at best, the surface. The original "Star Trek" had messages in it of course but it was obvious Roddenberry loved his creation and knew to put the characters, GOOD characters, and the stories first. What's more the writers wanted traditional morality and heroics in it.

 

[Allanon]

Actually now that I think about it The Last Jedi did give us a powerful metaphorical example of the Uniparty globalist (galactic?) Elite being engaged in mass child trafficking on that Casino planet where the ethnic supporting characters had that pointless side quest freeing the space camels and recruiting the Sicario.

Shocking to think that just a few years later such stories would be suppressed by Hollyweird.

Which no sane animal rights people would ever do. Let's see, in a universe with force fields, lasers, drones, droids, blasters, etc. you free a bunch of animals and let them run amok- so they get killed or recaptured shortly afterwards? The lesson there was actually ANTI-woke, and the writers didn't see it- their original mission was simple, then an even simpler side quest, and they couldn't even get any of that right.

 

[Allanon]

Another problem was that to patch up the endless mistakes and flaws in the sequels the canon was ruined. Take ramming a ship into another by going into hyperspace- in that reality hyperspace had been around for centuries but NOBODY except for purple-haired annoying woman thought of that? Here on Earth you invent something new two minutes later the military will try to figure out a way to use it as a weapon!

1977...

"...Look Rebellion, to hell with that fly-down-the-trench and slam-dunk a torpedo down the exhaust port. Just get a few junkers from Crazy Jabba's Used Spaceship Lot, point them at the Death Star, rig a remote control to throw them into gear, and problem solved!"

 

[Jaenera Targaryen]

Look, the biggest problem is that a beloved franchise is hijacked by the woke and mutated into propaganda. They have absolutely no idea of what made that franchise beloved in the first place, only a superficial understanding at best, the surface. The original "Star Trek" had messages in it of course but it was obvious Roddenberry loved his creation and knew to put the characters, GOOD characters, and the stories first. What's more the writers wanted traditional morality and heroics in it.

No shit. I won't deny I simply love tearing down TNG and the rest of the 24th Century Federation (hell, I wrote two fanfics on that theme and even finished one!) but even I can't deny there was heart and a vision behind what Roddenberry did. But ever since they rebooted the franchise, it's turned into garbage and progressive propaganda.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Another problem was that to patch up the endless mistakes and flaws in the sequels the canon was ruined. Take ramming a ship into another by going into hyperspace- in that reality hyperspace had been around for centuries but NOBODY except for purple-haired annoying woman thought of that? Here on Earth you invent something new two minutes later the military will try to figure out a way to use it as a weapon!

You do realize that hyperspace ramming was in fact used in the EU books, in a way that demonstrated exactly why it isn't a viable general use tactic?

The big part is that it only works when the ship you're sacrificing is sufficiently tough relative to the ship you're ramming; three ISDs ramming the much larger Executor only temporarily knocked out her battle shields. The large and heavily shielded Raddus was pretty much the only ship the Rebels / New Republic ever had that could ram Supremacy. Moreover, it clearly wouldn't have destroyed the rest of the First Order fleet except the arrogant SoBs were so arrogantly overconfident that they weren't spread out in battle order; they were closely clustered, possibly with shields down, and got shotgunned by the Supremacy's debris.

 

[Husky_Khan]

Ships were about as spread out as every other fleet seen in Star Wars.

The Rebel Fleet at Endor could've taken one of their soon to be Superlaser exploded ships and hyperspace launched it at the Imperial Fleet... and take a few of them with us!

And by few... I mean the entire fleet of Imperial warships.