Right, not doing that is the part where he let them go. Basically, he clearly didn't intend to let Ezra and Kanan go, but when they managed to knock him down and get to the shuttle, he chose to let the shuttle go because tracking down the rest of the cell was more important.
Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind
- Thread starter Urabrask Revealed
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There are two Vaders: The first are the years after Revenge of the Sith, and the latter are the years leading up to the original Trilogy.
In the former, a younger Vader (ironically, he still has more Anakin traits here) was far more vengeful and vicious, willing to hunt down Jedi (and by extension Kenobi) by any means necessary -- he even defied Sidious on multiple occasions to do this. This is the Vader we see in Kenobi, as a good example; calculated recklessness.
The latter is when he had become more patient, cool, and calculating. We see this Vader in Rebels and the original Trilogy, letting Jedi escape so he can hunt them and their fellows/other rebels down later, creating plans where they could track them to rebel outposts and bases, et cetera.
He mellowed out from being a hothead over time, but the rage, viciousness, and hatred were still there -- just tempered by wisdom and time and experience.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
This development on Vader's part is one of the rare good things Disney did the franchise right, especially since it set the stage for Vader making his first power play against Sidious after ANH. Unlike in Legends where Vader stayed a content little puppet for Sidious (much to the latter's displeasure), Vader's ambition sparked after Sidious made him responsible for the loss of the Death Star. This tied together all the experience he'd gained over the past couple of decades, leading him to build an impressive power base that only got exposed when Doctor Aphra ratted him out to Sidious.
And even then, Sidious was so impressed at what Vader had managed to put together under his nose, and satisfied that Vader was finally, truly thinking like a Sith, that he didn't hold it against him. Instead, he 'rewarded' Vader by telling him who it was who ratted him out, causing Doctor Aphra to run like hell.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Was that the comics?
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Yes, it's from the comics. Surprisingly well-written, considering it's Disney Star Wars...if only they could write better plotlines for the main movies.
...no matter how well some of their side-stories are, the sheer pile of FAIL that's the sequel trilogy is like a rotting corpse that shackles the entire franchise.
Bigking321
Well-known member
I have heard the comics they did were decent.
But that is small potatoes indeed compared to how badly they destroyed the brand.
But that is small potatoes indeed compared to how badly they destroyed the brand.
Yep.
In less than a decade after acquiring the license, they killed their own golden goose. They can't even do a "redo" of the sequel shits because of Carrie's passing, so we'll never see Luke, Han, and Leia on screen together again outside of CGI deep fakes.
The sequels also basically killed Daisy R's career, too -- everything she's done after Wars have basically been low-exposure projects in comparison to the A List stuff you'd have expected.
In less than a decade after acquiring the license, they killed their own golden goose. They can't even do a "redo" of the sequel shits because of Carrie's passing, so we'll never see Luke, Han, and Leia on screen together again outside of CGI deep fakes.
The sequels also basically killed Daisy R's career, too -- everything she's done after Wars have basically been low-exposure projects in comparison to the A List stuff you'd have expected.
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
She’s basically in poor old Hayden Christensen’s position now.
Hayden somewhat recovered though after his slump. She might too, but...
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
It's actually kinda worse. Hayden was stuck with poorly-written lines, but the prequels had an overall solid plotline. The sequels were just crap through and through, so much so that even ripping off Dark Empire couldn't save the last movie.
DarthOne
☦️
Exactly. The prequels where a good-to-mediocre story told poorly. The Sequels were just bad, as well as lacking a coherent overall vision.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
"George! You can type this shit, but you sure can't say it! Move your mouth when you're typing!"
- Harrison Ford
George always knew what he wanted to show on the screen, but he apparently had a problem putting his vision into words to be spoken with what was on the screen.
DarthOne
☦️
Yeah and by the time of the prequels, everyone was afraid of stepping up and helping him. Either out of fear of screwing up the franchise or other reasons.
StormEagle
Well-known member
What Lucas desperately needed was an editor to clean up the dialogue.
Even if you changed absolutely nothing else about the prequels, the dialogue no longer being dreadfully wooden or horribly cheesy would make them a thousand times better.
Other than that, the prequels are pretty solid films with some minor issues.
Hell, Jar-Jar isn’t that annoying. Even kinda funny. Even if he is largely kindergarten humor. And kid Anakin wasn’t that bad. At least the kid didn’t get many lines to fuck up?
Look, all I’m saying is that even the worst parts of the prequels are tolerable when compared to Rat Wars.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Ehh...
I'd push back on that a bit. There are honestly quite a few problems with the plot.
But there is a solid core there. Really solid.
Palpatine sneaking his way to power, controlling both sides of the war, and killing the Jedi with order 66 were brilliant ideas.
How did the empire take over? By weaking both sides, the loyalists and the separatists, with a long drawn out war that destroyed the strength and leadership of both sides and then completely eliminating the leadership of one side leaving only himself in a position of power and easily consolidating control over a devastated galaxy.
How did he destroy the Jedi? By having the Jedi attached to the army and suffer a long drawn out attrition with battles and intelligence he controlled. All while developing trust with clone troops that were completely loyal to the Jedi until order 66 triggered and they went instantly from valued comrades they fought with for years to ruthless assassins without any warning catching the Jedi totally off guard.
These are fantastic ideas.
But everything about the movies were executed terribly. And ideas are only as good as their execution and a good foundation doesn't matter if everything built on it is garbage.
When compared to the sequels? Absolutely. They look like the Mona Lisa next to literal trash.
Objectively? Still not good movies.
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What George Lucas desperately needed was to still have Marcia Lucas on board; she was literally one of the best script doctors and editors in the business.
Among other things, she's *entirely* responsible for the pacing of the Death Star battle in A New Hope. Y'know the whole constantly rising tension with the repeated cuts back to the Death Star and the Rebel Command center with the countdown to when the Death Star will be in range? That's entirely Marcia's work, made entirely in post-production.
Bigking321
Well-known member
Lucas is a good idea man or visionary. He is not good at all when it come to writing or directing.
Give him control over the direction star wars is going but then add in someone that does great writing, filming, and directing and we could have had some great stuff.
Give him control over the direction star wars is going but then add in someone that does great writing, filming, and directing and we could have had some great stuff.
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Skallagrim
Well-known member
It's all somewhere in the middle. The prequels have serious flaws, and if you focus on those, you can easily make the case that they really suck, as films. They do have very good 'skeleton', though, and some elements that really do dazzle. If you focus on those parts, you can make the case that they're actually very good at what they're meant to achieve. (And note that what Lucas meant to achieve is not, by definition, what most of the audience expected.)
The issue is that you have prequel haters who only focus on all the bad stuff, to the point of accentuating even the tiniest (and often imagined) 'flaw'... and in the other hand, you have prequel defenders who will try to argue that George's crap dialogue is actually "Shakespearean".
Fortunately, these extreme positions aren't actually that over-represented (although the haters rode the wave of the burgeoning internet for a few years). Most people just agree that the prequels are flawed films, but very far from irredeemable dog-shit. They were made with love, and with a vision.
The issue is that you have prequel haters who only focus on all the bad stuff, to the point of accentuating even the tiniest (and often imagined) 'flaw'... and in the other hand, you have prequel defenders who will try to argue that George's crap dialogue is actually "Shakespearean".
Fortunately, these extreme positions aren't actually that over-represented (although the haters rode the wave of the burgeoning internet for a few years). Most people just agree that the prequels are flawed films, but very far from irredeemable dog-shit. They were made with love, and with a vision.
Jaenera Targaryen
Well-known member
Never said the prequels were perfect. They were flawed films, especially the second one (like watching very bad soap in some parts), but overall? Not bad, they had a coherent overall plotline and the major characters were all solid and rounded out. Windu...? Yeah, he's totally badass...but he's also a colossal asshole that played right into Sidious' hands. Sidious himself...? A true evil mastermind and one of the most powerful Dark Lords of the Sith...but also a touch too arrogant, underestimating Windu and leading to getting his face melted off by having his own lightning turned back against him. Likewise for Anakin...the Chosen One of the Force, a nascent god in mortal form...also an arrogant, entitled, whiny prick with major issues that end up biting him in the ass sooner or later, but those same issues don't exist just because. I mean, hey, who'd have thought an ex-slave with phenomenal cosmic power wouldn't have issues?
So on and so forth...
So on and so forth...
Lord Sovereign
The resident Britbong
The romance between Padme and Anakin was also horribly executed. That properly dragged down Attack of the Clones.