Star Wars Star Wars Discussion Thread - LET THE PAST D-! Oh, wait, nevermind

Pretty much this, yes. There's also that blatant - as in rub into your face blatant - description of the main character being woke as though it's the defining trait of their character. I am completely certain KOTOR and SWTOR players who've had their characters enter into same-sex relationships do a better job of being tolerant and accepting, if only because we don't need to smash everyone's faces with that fact every five minutes or so.

“Hey! Did you know I’m gay! I’m gay you know! Totally gay! Completely gay! I’m not just gay, I’m downright flamboyant! Did I mention the fact that I’m gay?!” - most modern homosexual characters.

It’s almost like some writers have completely forgotten what the word subtlety means.
 
“Hey! Did you know I’m gay! I’m gay you know! Totally gay! Completely gay! I’m not just gay, I’m downright flamboyant! Did I mention the fact that I’m gay?!” - most modern homosexual characters.

It’s almost like some writers have completely forgotten what the word subtlety means.
Subtlety is hard. Whereas if you if you spout blatant wokeisms at every opportunity then you can use it as a shield against criticism. It's always easier to call your critics bigots than to explain why you screwed up.
 
What? What is this? 🧐

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Bay... basics? 😵

Role? Like roleplaying? Like a bottom or... the catcher? 🤔

Character defines identity? What? Identity doesn't define them? Them? You mean they? Themme? 😕

Personality? Backstory? Like their relationship status? 😰
 
Subtle is hard and requires careful handling.

Let's look at the following scene. White male scientist. Black Male scientist. White female scientist. Asian female secretary.

The sexy secretary is in a blouse and skirt combo and slowly bends over to pick up something from the floor. All three scientists watch, silently, as she does so. She puts it on her desk then reaches for a wide mouth jar on her desk.

Smiling she walks over to the scientists and holds the jar up to them. Written on it is 'Staring Jar' Both male scientists pull out wallets and drop $5 into the jar. The blonde scientist looks at the asian secretary. She wiggles the jar and has an expectant look on her face.

The blonde scientist sighs. She pulls out $5 and puts it in the jar. The Asian secretary gives her a wide smile and walks away with a sway to her hips. The blonde scientist then starts to lightly bang her head against the wall.

The white male scientist looks at the blonde while the black scientist has his hand covering his mouth as he tries not to laugh. The white scientist speaks. "You do remember that Tina said you don't have to pay for staring at her butt if you date her. So go ask her out!"


A small scene . Subtly showing that at least two of the characters are gay or bi. Sadly Hollywood has forgotten how to do subtle character growth, Hell, I'm a hack as a writer.....
 
The majority of the Jedi are basically fodder as Geonosis showed. Before the clones arrived they were dying like flies.

It really looked like the Jedi hadn't actually fought serious opponents on any scale in many, many years; they were basically police officers thrown into a military situation. What makes it stupid is they put themselves in that situation in the first place.

Well, that and the out-of-character reason that they were minimally trained extras and the scene wasn't choreographed in detail.
 
To be fair, from the Making Of stuff we got, Filoni neither petitioned for or really even wanted that role - he got shoved into because he could do it and then needed someone to. Which means the name it probably poking fun, more than something he drove.

Also: the Loth-wolves were awesome. Dunno why so many people seem to have a problem with them.
I don't really mind Filoni doing his thing, to be clear. It's just retty obviou that he has, eh... "Filoni-isms". That's something creators should be careful with, because it's easy to go overboard with such stuff. (Besides a fondness for wolves and certain references he always likes to include, Filoni's biggest thing is actually the irrepressible urge to always bring in his own favourite characters. Even when that's... maybe not the best for the story. Lots of authors do this, and when they do it too much, it invariably starts to detract from the work.)

Regarding Loth-wolves in general. Well. They're cool. The reason lots of people have a problem with them is that they seem to be something from another setting. The "Filoni-verse" interprets SW in its own way, and apparently a way George Lucas approved of (and had a hand in crafting)... but still a way that differs from the OT. So you get stuff like the Mortis Gods and mystical wolves and interdimensional time travel... and all those things are actually cool. But are they Star Wars?

To me, personally, the Filoni-verse is pretty much a really cool fanfic AU. I don't have a problem with all the stuff Filoni puts in, but it doesn't really jive with my own pre-existing ideas about how the SW universe does-and-ought-to work.
 
The majority of the Jedi are basically fodder as Geonosis showed. Before the clones arrived they were dying like flies to B1 battle-droids.

And yet some people claim the Jedi Order prior to the start of the Clone Wars was at its strongest in its history.

*scoffs*

Even if it was the EU Jedi Order, they'd get stomped if they ever came up against the likes of the Sith Empire from SWTOR. Hell, considering how...concentrated, the Order had been in a single spot i.e. the Coruscant Temple, plus the demilitarized state of the Republic at the time, the Sith could just jump their entire fleet to Coruscant, and then bomb the temple to wipe out the bulk of the Jedi Order in one fell swoop. I mean, there's still the Corellian Jedi, but they wouldn't have the numbers to immediately retaliate in any meaningful way.

The Jedi Order at the end of the so-called Golden Age of the Republic was actually at its weakest in history, for all that some people claim otherwise. If anything, the height of the Jedi Order would have been during the 1000-year period from the Great Hyperspace War to the Galactic Wars that erupted following the Sith Empire's return to known space. This was the era that produced the likes of Nomi Sunrider, Hero of the Great Sith War, Revan the Revanchist, the Prodigal Knight and the Heart of the Force, and of course, Meetra Surik, the Jedi Exile.

*The greatest irony here is that the only one who could possibly save the Republic in such a scenario would be Darth Sidious himself. And even that is not guaranteed, as he could still be overwhelmed by sheer weight of numbers of Sith Warriors.

**Come to think of it, while Darth Sidious would never be able to coexist with other Sith, Darth Plagueis would probably have been just fine with the reconstituted Sith Empire. He'd probably just challenge one of the Dark Councillors to a kaggath, and claim a seat on the Dark Council. More resources for him to continue his experiments with, no further need to hide in the shadows, and most enticing of all, actual peers to test himself against and even bounce ideas off.
 
I do wonder, how interested the Sith would be in Anakin. The author-supported interpretation of his prophecy is after all that he's supposed to destroy the Dark Side, something that would make him a walking mark to any Sith, old or new.

As for the sorry state of the Republic and the jedi, I blame that on the fact that there was no enemy for them to worry about.

EDIT: I checked the Legends section of that "Chosen One" prophecy, and it seems to be fairly clear-cut.
A Jedi will come
To destroy the Sith
And bring balance to the Force.
Now, because of the fact that the Coruscant Jedi have a deep-seated loathing for anything Sith or non-orthodox Jedi teachings, I do believe that their interpretation of that prophecy is flawed. For all we know, "destroy" means that said incarnation is replaced with a new one that is more balanced. The actual prophecy is here.
In the time of greatest despair,
a child shall be born
who will destroy the Sith
and bring balance to the Force.
That, on the other hand, calls the whole matter of Anakin into doubt, as he wasn't really born during a time of "greatest despair". Even when he was discovered on Tatooine, it was a dispute between a corpo power and Naboo.
 
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I do wonder, how interested the Sith would be in Anakin. The author-supported interpretation of his prophecy is after all that he's supposed to destroy the Dark Side, something that would make him a walking mark to any Sith, old or new.

Vitiate likely would aim to corrupt Anakin, but not simply to make him as an enforcer, but to make him his next Voice, thus usurping Anakin's power for himself. Considering Anakin has Celestial-grade potential (he forced the Son and Daughter to kneel before him), if Vitiate succeeds, then he'd have succeeded in making himself into a god without needing to devour the galaxy. But if he fails, it's likely the Dark Council would bow before Anakin and make him the next Sith Emperor.

That said, the really interesting question is if Anakin was found by the Sith Empire after the middle of the Great Galactic War, when the restriction on training Force-sensitive slaves was lifted. Anakin, despite all his idiosyncrasies, is actually quite well-suited to be a Sith, being a very passionate person. He just needed to be taught how to properly channel his passion, something that Lana Beniko implies is part of the standard Sith training curriculum at Korriban.

"You were never taught to properly channel your anger."

- Lana Beniko, while telekinetically choking a Knight of Zakuul

The Jedi Order on the eve of the Clone Wars was really a poor match for Anakin, barring outliers like Qui-Gon, or even Dooku before his fall. Mace might have better chances than most others to properly train Anakin, considering he's also a very passionate man, something he admits to himself in the novelization of RotS. However, the Jedi Order of earlier epochs, such as during the Great Sith War, would have been a better fit for Anakin.

That, on the other hand, calls the whole matter of Anakin into doubt, as he wasn't really born during a time of "greatest despair". Even when he was discovered on Tatooine, it was a dispute between a corpo power and Naboo.

That actually points more to Luke being the Chosen One, and not Anakin. That said, it runs into the problem of Anakin being so much more powerful than Luke. Luke was nowhere near a Celestial's power, easily overwhelmed by the likes of Abeloth, described by the Sith - Tahiri Veila, IIRC - as a volcano in the Force. Anakin, in contrast, like I said earlier, was able to overpower TWO Celestials, and was even described by Darth Tyrannus as a supernova in the Force.
 
Even if it was the EU Jedi Order, they'd get stomped if they ever came up against the likes of the Sith Empire from SWTOR. Hell, considering how...concentrated, the Order had been in a single spot i.e. the Coruscant Temple, plus the demilitarized state of the Republic at the time, the Sith could just jump their entire fleet to Coruscant, and then bomb the temple to wipe out the bulk of the Jedi Order in one fell swoop.
Just like last time.
And the Republic was fully mobilized for war during the Attack on Coruscant during the Great War too and they got crunched really hard.
Pre Clone Wars republic would be insta-killed, Jedi included, and the remainder (not at temple or on mission) would be hunted down by Sith inquisitor teams in Fury class interceptors.
 
It really looked like the Jedi hadn't actually fought serious opponents on any scale in many, many years; they were basically police officers thrown into a military situation. What makes it stupid is they put themselves in that situation in the first place.

Well, that and the out-of-character reason that they were minimally trained extras and the scene wasn't choreographed in detail.

They did seem to have adapted reasonably well by the end of the Clone Wars, operating more as special-forces and battlefield commanders than frontline infantry. But then ... well, Order 66 happened.
 
They did seem to have adapted reasonably well by the end of the Clone Wars, operating more as special-forces and battlefield commanders than frontline infantry. But then ... well, Order 66 happened.

The ones who didn't die learned, yes. Because they weren't actually *stupid* people, they just had the absolutely wrong sort of training and experience at that time. And Palpatine very intentionally set them up to fail like that.
 
Vitiate likely would aim to corrupt Anakin, but not simply to make him as an enforcer, but to make him his next Voice, thus usurping Anakin's power for himself. Considering Anakin has Celestial-grade potential (he forced the Son and Daughter to kneel before him), if Vitiate succeeds, then he'd have succeeded in making himself into a god without needing to devour the galaxy. But if he fails, it's likely the Dark Council would bow before Anakin and make him the next Sith Emperor.

Incidentally, wouldn't Vitiate be doubly-pressed to take in Anakin because IIRC a fair chunk of the infrastructure for him doing a grand galactic nom was outside of Imperial space (Belsavis, for instance). It very well could be that his preparations haven't been taken with and now he's facing a significant setback to his plan. In such a situation the shortcut of Anakin would be mighty tempting compared to spending another century or two setting everything up again.

That actually points more to Luke being the Chosen One, and not Anakin. That said, it runs into the problem of Anakin being so much more powerful than Luke. Luke was nowhere near a Celestial's power, easily overwhelmed by the likes of Abeloth, described by the Sith - Tahiri Veila, IIRC - as a volcano in the Force. Anakin, in contrast, like I said earlier, was able to overpower TWO Celestials, and was even described by Darth Tyrannus as a supernova in the Force.

On the other hand, does one actually need to be the strongest in the force to fulfil that prophecy? It never says anything about them overpowering the Sith, only destroying them. Luke's strength in the force was secondary to his boundless (some would say reckless or even suicidal) compassion for his father in actually achieving it.


Also I had a funny thought about the SWTOR-era Empire being sent forward to the sequel era. If any of them ended up surrendering to House Thul and keeping their position I totally wouldn't put it past the Dark Council to make an Organa the Empire's ambassador to the New Republic, just to twist the knife a bit.
 
Also I had a funny thought about the SWTOR-era Empire being sent forward to the sequel era. If any of them ended up surrendering to House Thul and keeping their position I totally wouldn't put it past the Dark Council to make an Organa the Empire's ambassador to the New Republic, just to twist the knife a bit.
I can only imagine Leia's reaction to that petty slight.
 

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