Anime & Manga RWBY General discussion thread.

Free-Stater 101

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Apparently some sort of epilogue for season 9 of RWBY dropped, and the main thing in it that people are talking about is the reveal that Salem nuked Vale offscreen
Wut? First I heard!

...

...

Edit I just looked into it and Sweet Mother who thought that was a good decision? It's almost like they wanted people to shut up about Vale and did it just to emphasize that we aren't going back their and also RIP Goodwitch.
 

Zachowon

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That kills a whole bunch if people off.
All the professors.
All three of which were probably never going to return due to the VAs
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
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All the professors.
All three of which were probably never going to return due to the VAs
Bart and Port were in the epilogue it didn't show Vale being destroyed but showed Qrow arriving in Vacou with the refugees and both of them arriving afterward and it is they who relay Vale's destruction to them, Glynda is MIA.
 
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Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
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Bart and Port were in the epilogue it didnt show Vale being destroyed but showed Qrow arriving in Vacou with the refugees and finding both of them already their and it is they who relay Vale's destruction to them, Glynda is MIA.
Surprising.
Given Ports VA.

Glynda may be alive.
If 10 does happen, maybe answers?
 

ATP

Well-known member
Apparently some sort of epilogue for season 9 of RWBY dropped, and the main thing in it that people are talking about is the reveal that Salem nuked Vale offscreen.
They abadonned story - so it do not matter.Either story remain not finished,or somebody remade it from seazon 2 or 3.
In both cases their epilogue do not matter.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
Oh wonderful, so Salem actually destroyed two kingdoms back-to-back, the latter of which was the one the story started in. Any hope represented by that airfleet at the end of V9 has been dashed, Vacuo & Mistral are looking pretty boned. They also took some time to crap on Ironwood('s grave) again, as had first been rumored when news that the epilogue was cut first broke a while back (I think I posted about it somewhere here). And had the story continued we will probably not see Glynda ever again, despite her having a striking design like so much of the Monty-designed cast & probably being the most popular of the professors. I wonder how much of that has to do with her VA, Kathleen Zuelch (incidentally also one of RWBY's first producers!), getting fired from RT on dreadful terms and vocally supporting Shane back in the day.

This epilogue's contents just solidify my impression that the story really cannot continue as it had been left off by V8-9, unless the endgame is supposed to be Salem winning period (making the whole series a nihilistic waste of time). The Gods being summoned back by the Relics and Ruby talk-no-jutsu'ing them into just killing Salem instead of destroying everything again is about the only way I can still see the good guys pulling a last second W, and that doesn't seem like it would be particularly satisfying or even logically earned at this point. A reboot by whoever buys this IP off RT's hands, if it happens at all, is looking more necessary than ever before to un-screw this plot. And the less involvement by the current writers, the better.
 

ATP

Well-known member
Oh wonderful, so Salem actually destroyed two kingdoms back-to-back, the latter of which was the one the story started in. Any hope represented by that airfleet at the end of V9 has been dashed, Vacuo & Mistral are looking pretty boned. They also took some time to crap on Ironwood('s grave) again, as had first been rumored when news that the epilogue was cut first broke a while back (I think I posted about it somewhere here). And had the story continued we will probably not see Glynda ever again, despite her having a striking design like so much of the Monty-designed cast & probably being the most popular of the professors. I wonder how much of that has to do with her VA, Kathleen Zuelch (incidentally also one of RWBY's first producers!), getting fired from RT on dreadful terms and vocally supporting Shane back in the day.

This epilogue's contents just solidify my impression that the story really cannot continue as it had been left off by V8-9, unless the endgame is supposed to be Salem winning period (making the whole series a nihilistic waste of time). The Gods being summoned back by the Relics and Ruby talk-no-jutsu'ing them into just killing Salem instead of destroying everything again is about the only way I can still see the good guys pulling a last second W, and that doesn't seem like it would be particularly satisfying or even logically earned at this point. A reboot by whoever buys this IP off RT's hands, if it happens at all, is looking more necessary than ever before to un-screw this plot. And the less involvement by the current writers, the better.
All true.Another reason why it is good thing,that story died.If it survive, it must be done by somebody else from volume 2.
P.S Merry Easter !
 

Free-Stater 101

Freedom Means Freedom!!!
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And had the story continued we will probably not see Glynda ever again, despite her having a striking design
I doubt it, my theory was that Glynda was the Relic of Choice given human form or at the very least a person who was aware of its current location/ guardian given the crown on the back of her cape.
43700a56acbb75e86bfccf20f07b635c.png

e23b3d03d78d603e96d7b3373c461b921f9a7160r1-1920-1080v2_hq.jpg

Although, granted the designs are different even if they do bear some similarities as Glynda's tiara isn't a full circlet although it could be misdirection, they explicitly showed her in Vale at the end of Volume 8 I doubt they would have if they didn't plan to use her again or alternatively Port could have just stated she died in the attack on Vale fighting Salem directly if they wanted her out of the show that badly.
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
I doubt it, my theory was that Glynda was the Relic of Choice given human form or at the very least a person who was aware of its current location/ guardian given the crown on the back of her cape.
43700a56acbb75e86bfccf20f07b635c.png

e23b3d03d78d603e96d7b3373c461b921f9a7160r1-1920-1080v2_hq.jpg

Although, granted the designs are different even if they do bear some similarities as Glynda's tiara isn't a full circlet although it could be misdirection, they explicitly showed her in Vale at the end of Volume 8 I doubt they would have if they didn't plan to use her again or alternatively Port could have just stated she died in the attack on Vale fighting Salem directly if they wanted her out of the show that badly.
My counterpoint is that CRWBY has a really bad track record with misusing & screwing up the potential of their characters, as well as bringing those they know/think are fan-favorites back out of the blue to pander for views. Raven is probably the best example of this and certainly the first that comes to my mind - theoretically an important character as Yang's mother and the figure underpinning what her arc is supposed to be about early on (finding answers re: her missing mom and resolving her abandonment issues) with another striking design that both resembles & contrasts against her daughter's but then gets her V2 post-credit scene retconned for no readily apparent reason; then said to be the badass leader of a gang of Darwinist bandits only for said bandits to turn out to be failtastic scrubs and herself to be a cowardly unlikable douche despite having Maiden powers; and ultimately parts on bad terms with Yang, even crying about completely failing to reconcile with or otherwise keep her around (meaning both of Yang's non-Bumblebee arcs, the other being her PTSD after losing her arm, have concluded on unsatisfying notes).

Then she pretty much totally disappears from the narrative until reappearing at the tail end of V9 in a cameo/flashback that implies she does...something? With Summer Rose (attempting to go right after Salem perhaps) even though this pretty much completely flies in the face of everything that has been previously established about Raven's character. Of course, this also happens to be the volume produced & released at a time when, IRL, Rooster Teeth is imploding and Barbara Dunkelman admitted that not only are they having severe money problems & difficulties trying to continue the show, but also that RWBY hadn't been profitable in a long time and RTX had never turned a profit. (I've heard the argument that she only became an apathetic, selfish coward after facing Salem and realizing she can't be beat, but by her own account she was a scumbag long before that and didn't even enroll at Beacon for the greater good, but rather to learn how to kill other Huntsmen.)

I'm sure there's many other examples of this. Team FNKI is a considerably smaller case that has less impact on the plot/characters compared to Raven, they too reappear in Atlas after having first wowed fans in the Vytal Festival four volumes prior only to then not actually amount to much. Adam is a fantastic example of a character with way more stuff established about him than the similarity between the tiara on Glynda's cape & the Relic of Choice (as you say, they aren't even the exact same design) that was retconned for - as far as I can tell - the writers' intense out-of-show personal dislike for him per the commentary tracks (and they certainly aren't lacking reasons, albeit different ones, to also hate Glynda due to how poorly they parted with her VA) and to speed up Bumblebee. Etc, etc. Basically, what I'm trying to say is that it is far, far likelier that CRWBY is just incompetent and making things up as they go along, in this case showing Glynda off in a cameo as a member-berry for a flailing attempt to get some viewers back at a time when (as we now know in hindsight) they really were on the verge of getting shut down, than that they actually have some genuinely well-thought-out plan to figure Glynda back into the story when she's been out of the picture for so long.
 

Free-Stater 101

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My counterpoint is that CRWBY has a really bad track record with misusing & screwing up the potential of their characters
I agree but that doesn't mean they won't use her again, it just means that the writers treat characters like toys to disregard on a merry go around where they only pick them up again when they come back and the plot calls for it.

Glynda is a fan favorite side character with more relation to the cast than others and RT has shown repeatedly they lack the balls to make big story decisions like killing one offscreen, I can understand Vale because as someone would put it.
2193d101b1504855d14b93633084f68e.jpg

I have severe doubts that she would never have come up again. Yes, they had problems with her voice actress in the past, but given what happened with Qrow's RT has shown that they aren't above simply replacing a voice actor and it's not like Glynda had many iconic lines for any would be voice aspect to live up to anyways.

Most likely the entire thing with Glynda being MIA along with her cameo appearance in V8 was to build up shock value of where people endlessly hype up her return, RT brings her back, she does one thing of badassery or irrelevance and is then summarily killed off while again none of the main cast dies.

In short, I agree on almost all points but at the end of the day saying we wouldn't see Glynda again is supposition that we will never have proven or disproven given what has happened to RT and RWBY as a whole.

And at the end of the day does it matter? If she lives, she lives and dies by shitty writing and if she died in Vale she again dies to shitty writing, it all proves RT's incompetence all the same in the writing department.
 

What's the sitch?

Well-known member
Did people from the Walking Dead take over or something lol? I remember the constant doom and gloom and killing off lots of characters is why I stopped watching it, it just became a "what's the point", instead of escapism, fantasy and wonder that fiction is supposed to bring. Too many edge lord writers thinking they are treading new, undiscovered ground making series and endings like that. Leave that to one shot movies, explicit horror movies where everyone is expected to die and fanfics. If you keep strangling peoples hope, don't be surprised when you strangle their hope and they stop caring about whether your series dies off.
 
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ATP

Well-known member
Yes,Raven was wasted just like many other characters.Her enter in vol 2 was really something,but later....
 

Val the Moofia Boss

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Destroying Vale is a curious story choice. It is the home of the protagonist. The audience spent three seasons hanging out in Vale with it being the "home" that the heroes were defending. Season 3's ending promised the fans that eventually the heroes would become strong in exile, rally an army and the come back and slay the huge bird and reclaim their homeland. If Vale was completely wiped out, then there goes a lot of not just the character's motivations, but also the audience's motives to see the story through to the end if we're just fighting for scraps off an offscreen world we are not invested in.

This epilogue's contents just solidify my impression that the story really cannot continue as it had been left off by V8-9, unless the endgame is supposed to be Salem winning period
I doubt they had planned how Salem would be defeated when they wrote the "Salem is immortal" part.

Too many edge lord writers thinking they are treading new, undiscovered ground making series and endings like that.
I think consequences are a good thing. Too often I get bored watching or reading something knowing that nothing bad is ever going to happen. There is no more tension, no impetus to continue turning the page to find out if they succeeded or not. The issue with a lot of modern stories isn't the consequences, but rather the writers' inability to 1. stay on track and make the audience feel that the story is going somewhere and an ending is in sight, and 2. an inability to create likeable characters and get the audience to care about them. This combination of two failings has been particularly lethal for TV shows like The Walking Dead and Game of Thrones. You have these shows with hour long episodes and many seasons - dozens of hours of watchtime - that go on and on and on, and the likeable characters are killed off (or become evil), and before you know it you're 40 hours into this story and there isn't anyone likeable left and there is no end in sight, so you stop caring and turn it off. Writers need to relearn the lost art of brevity, and learn the fundamentals of making heroic characters you want to root for.
 

What's the sitch?

Well-known member
I could be wrong but from what I have heard from other people and read in fanfics, "cannon" is basically Salem/Salem related/adjacent winning in general and "wins" from the protagonists are less wins and more "we lived to fight another day, but lost ground/suffered casualties". Losing Vale is just the next step of that.

I don't really have much of a horse in that race, Like many fandoms I have never actually seen an episode or read the source material despite reading tons of fanfics. It is sad with a series source dying though, that usually cuts off lots of new fics from spawning comparatively, but they will still keep coming.
 

Free-Stater 101

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The only way I can see Salem as being truly defeated is before the final confrontation they have parley and refreshments, said refreshment for her is tea made from a leaf of the tree.

I mean correct me if I am wrong but since the tree created the brothers doesn't that mean it Trumps them by default?
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
The only death I know that was planned by Monty was Pyrrhas.
Jen Brown even said she was told when she got the part she would be dying
Which I still think was a terrible idea, that wouldn't have resulted in anything worth watching even if Monty hadn't died; the guy just wasn't any good as a storyteller.



The only way I can see Salem as being truly defeated is before the final confrontation they have parley and refreshments, said refreshment for her is tea made from a leaf of the tree.

I mean correct me if I am wrong but since the tree created the brothers doesn't that mean it Trumps them by default?
I always figured they planned on solving the whole "Salem" problem by having Ruby spout some half-assed and out-of-nowhere speech about "the power of friendship/dreams/believing in yourself", or other such bullhonky, and talk her into not being evil. Either that, or she somehow unlocks the Mangekyō for her bootleg Sharingan at the last minute, and uses it to beat Salem in the most anticlimactic and uninteresting final battle you could imagine.
 

Zachowon

The Army Life for me! The POG life for me!
Founder
Which I still think was a terrible idea, that wouldn't have resulted in anything worth watching even if Monty hadn't died; the guy just wasn't any good as a storyteller.




I always figured they planned on solving the whole "Salem" problem by having Ruby spout some half-assed and out-of-nowhere speech about "the power of friendship/dreams/believing in yourself", or other such bullhonky, and talk her into not being evil. Either that, or she somehow unlocks the Mangekyō for her bootleg Sharingan at the last minute, and uses it to beat Salem in the most anticlimactic and uninteresting final battle you could imagine.
I am just saying death wise Pyrrha was planned
 

Circle of Willis

Well-known member
I agree but that doesn't mean they won't use her again, it just means that the writers treat characters like toys to disregard on a merry go around where they only pick them up again when they come back and the plot calls for it.

Glynda is a fan favorite side character with more relation to the cast than others and RT has shown repeatedly they lack the balls to make big story decisions like killing one offscreen, I can understand Vale because as someone would put it.
2193d101b1504855d14b93633084f68e.jpg

I have severe doubts that she would never have come up again. Yes, they had problems with her voice actress in the past, but given what happened with Qrow's RT has shown that they aren't above simply replacing a voice actor and it's not like Glynda had many iconic lines for any would be voice aspect to live up to anyways.

Most likely the entire thing with Glynda being MIA along with her cameo appearance in V8 was to build up shock value of where people endlessly hype up her return, RT brings her back, she does one thing of badassery or irrelevance and is then summarily killed off while again none of the main cast dies.

In short, I agree on almost all points but at the end of the day saying we wouldn't see Glynda again is supposition that we will never have proven or disproven given what has happened to RT and RWBY as a whole.

And at the end of the day does it matter? If she lives, she lives and dies by shitty writing and if she died in Vale she again dies to shitty writing, it all proves RT's incompetence all the same in the writing department.
I did throw in a 'probably' qualifier in my previous statement. But in any case, personally I think that not only is it still unlikely had the show miraculously gotten V10 greenlit somehow, but it's for the best that that never happens. Even if RT were to bring Glynda back, I have full confidence in the writers' ability to somehow find a way to horribly bungle her so as to leave the fandom (even those who previously adored her) hating her given their past track record, as they already did Ironwood.

Given their record of pettiness, unwelcome injections of RL politics and hate for her old VA I wouldn't put it past said writers to jump all-in into the 'he who fights monsters' trope and turn Glynda into an overzealous madwoman who's become worse than Salem in trying to stop her post-Vale & now has to be put down by Team RWBY. Make her into another allusion to Trump even (this time seeking reelection), because this is an American election year after all and you just know there's no way the Current Year™ Rooster Teeth that insists on repeatedly & loudly antagonizing right-of-center fans online, made Jacques into a Trump strawman and Salem's forces into one of the Russians with their own 2016 election analogy, and made Ironwood into a 1970s far-left caricature of the US military would be able to help themselves.
Yes,Raven was wasted just like many other characters.Her enter in vol 2 was really something,but later....
I was tempted to splurge about my ideas for a Raven rewrite as I already have with some other characters & the WF conflict earlier in this thread, but honestly, I think I can just leave it at 'literally anything would have been better than the Raven we actually got'. Lame AF doesn't even begin to cover how disappointing she's turned out to be in CRWBY's hands.
Which I still think was a terrible idea, that wouldn't have resulted in anything worth watching even if Monty hadn't died; the guy just wasn't any good as a storyteller.




I always figured they planned on solving the whole "Salem" problem by having Ruby spout some half-assed and out-of-nowhere speech about "the power of friendship/dreams/believing in yourself", or other such bullhonky, and talk her into not being evil. Either that, or she somehow unlocks the Mangekyō for her bootleg Sharingan at the last minute, and uses it to beat Salem in the most anticlimactic and uninteresting final battle you could imagine.
I agree that the death of Pyrrha was a really bad idea, especially at the time when they insisted on carrying it out, and that it was a mistake on Monty's part to have that written down. I would have preferred that she not die at all, but if she had to go to 'raise the stakes', change the tone of the show, or whatever else then that's something that should have happened like 6-7 volumes in, not in Volume 3 when she's literally just starting to become an interesting character. Her characterization basically boiled down to just 'supremely nice, supremely skilled fighter, supremely interested in Jaune' until she was introduced to the concept of Maiden powers at which point she started expressing self-doubts, deep concerns for the future, and in general actual character depth for the first time on the show...aaaaand then she's gone.
 

Terthna

Professional Lurker
I agree that the death of Pyrrha was a really bad idea, especially at the time when they insisted on carrying it out, and that it was a mistake on Monty's part to have that written down. I would have preferred that she not die at all, but if she had to go to 'raise the stakes', change the tone of the show, or whatever else then that's something that should have happened like 6-7 volumes in, not in Volume 3 when she's literally just starting to become an interesting character. Her characterization basically boiled down to just 'supremely nice, supremely skilled fighter, supremely interested in Jaune' until she was introduced to the concept of Maiden powers at which point she started expressing self-doubts, deep concerns for the future, and in general actual character depth for the first time on the show...aaaaand then she's gone.
In retrospect, I'm a bit surprised the woke crowd never seemed to care that Rooster Teeth pulled a "Stuffed into the Fridge" with Pyrrha; killing her off, and then using her death as motivating pathos for Jaune. One would think they would have rioted over such a thing, but I guess they were more interested in pushing the writers into making all the female characters lesbians.
 

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