Russian-Ukrainian-Polish Eternal Friendship Thread

Hey, be dependent on much more expensive Arab and US LNG, if you can build terminals and pipelines for that and you can provide it at a lower price than Russia does, and meet the EU's needs - then be my guest, I am happy to see diversification in the energy industry.
While you are at it, might as well build more nuclear powerplants than the entirety of Fallout.
The fun thing with ports is that they don't care where in the world the tankers come from.
Unlike pipelines, which lead to a specific supplier who gets the last say over how much fuel and when will go through.
Yeah, it is not like the US and UK don't have a history of abandoning their allies because of changing internal political tides.
Who doesn't?
There is a handful countries now who wish Russia would merely abandon them.

The greens being pro-Russia?

Sure dude, sure, tell that to the likes of Annalena Baerbock, who had to get bent over and spanked to play nice with them, but unlike the greens the more established parties at least know they should not threaten a 50 billion per year's worth bilateral trade.
The greens are a self-inflicted western injury.
Merkel is a well-known Russia hater and she closed down all of Germany's power-plants.
Also, might I note that you don't pick a fucking fight with your main energy provider unless you have working alternatives!
I fucking hate green energy and I hate that I am required by law to buy x amount of so called green energy.
But hey, why organize a counter-force around stopping that shit when you can just ree about muh Russia.
This is why this whole green energy push glows. Supposedly everyone involved hates Russia and occasionally drops soundbites to that point...
At the same time over decades none of them put a stop on the Russian gas reliance plan, green idiocy, or nuclear power shutdown. Merkel delayed some of it but didn't roll it back, SPD supports it since Schroeder, Greens are just being Greens in all their idiotic glory. Actions speak louder than words.
But someone is getting rewards for this idiocy already, and the rewards come from Russia.
Is it normal for former chancellors/presidents of western countries to get over a decade of sinecures in Gazprom, or is it something only for those who are owed a big favor?
How many more German politicians can expect personal favors from Russia in their future?

Frankly you Poles are about as useful to the EU politically as the neocuck chickenhawks are in the USA.
Do something good for the whole community, present decent alternatives that don't cost more money, tell Brussels to fuck itself with the green lunacy more often, and then maybe we can talk about your boogieman obsession.
We already do, Brussels doesn't want to listen, leftists want their green pseudoreligion, bureaucrats want carbon indulgences with all the power and money they give them, technical issues are absolutely secondary to the political side - France, which already had a nuclear based energy sector built and functioning, has also surprisingly decided to start getting rid of it.
Of course under leftist Hollande, while "right wing" Macron, mirroring CDU, merely delays it instead of showing a middle finger to the green zealots.
 
The fun thing with ports is that they don't care where in the world the tankers come from.
Unlike pipelines, which lead to a specific supplier who gets the last say over how much fuel and when will go through.

Who doesn't?
There is a handful countries now who wish Russia would merely abandon them.

This is why this whole green energy push glows. Supposedly everyone involved hates Russia and occasionally drops soundbites to that point...
At the same time over decades none of them put a stop on the Russian gas reliance plan, green idiocy, or nuclear power shutdown. Merkel delayed some of it but didn't roll it back, SPD supports it since Schroeder, Greens are just being Greens in all their idiotic glory. Actions speak louder than words.
But someone is getting rewards for this idiocy already, and the rewards come from Russia.
Is it normal for former chancellors/presidents of western countries to get over a decade of sinecures in Gazprom, or is it something only for those who are owed a big favor?
Yeah, well even Mutty Moron has to deal with reality once in a while, as to LNG, it has some benefits, but the problem is it takes time and effort to compress it load it, then ship it.
Pipelines are cheaper and per unit labor costs are lower in Russia as opposed to a lot of other places, also there is the much longer distance to consider.
But you do you.

How many more German politicians can expect personal favors from Russia in their future?
How many Polish politicians can expect favors from SAudi Arabia/UAE/US oil and gas and arms industry in their future?



We already do, Brussels doesn't want to listen, leftists want their green pseudoreligion, bureaucrats want carbon indulgences with all the power and money they give them, technical issues are absolutely secondary to the political side - France, which already had a nuclear based energy sector built and functioning, has also surprisingly decided to start getting rid of it.
Of course under leftist Hollande, while "right wing" Macron, mirroring CDU, merely delays it instead of showing a middle finger to the green zealots.
And yet France under-invested in its capacity in recent years and a lot of its reactors need modernization, they swalloed the green muck kool aid too.

I am in full agreement with you on the greens, of course, can't stand them.

There is just this obsession you Poles have with the Russians, tbh.
I mean, the Turks fucked up the Balkans far worse and for far longer than what Russia or the USSR did to you guys, and yet I do not view them as a mindless evil Star Wars GE wannabe, I even have some Turkish friends and colleagues and enjoy their food.
Your irrational hatred is blinding you and limiting your country's diplomatic and business options.

TBH I see no real point in talking to you on this subject, you have your mind made up, I have my opinion.

I propose we just live and let live, Pole.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, well even Mutty Moron has to deal with reality once in a while, as to LNG, it has some benefits, but the problem is it takes time and effort to compress it load it, then ship it.
Pipelines are cheaper and per unit labor costs are lower in Russia as opposed to a lot of other places, also there is the much longer distance to consider.
But you do you.
The more demand for gas is lifted by green politics needing it as a fallback and plain economic growth needing energy, the less significant transport premiums become as fraction of the price. Eventually ability to pick and choose suppliers may well trump those.

How many Polish politicians can expect favors from SAudi Arabia/UAE/US oil and gas and arms industry in their future?
Didn't see anything nearly as bad as Schroeder's case yet, especially not with them.

There is just this obsession you Poles have with the Russians, tbh.
I mean, the Turks fucked up the Balkans far worse and for far longer than what Russia or the USSR did to you guys, and yet I do not view them as a mindless evil Star Wars GE wannabe, I even have some Turkish friends and colleagues and enjoy their food.
Your irrational hatred is blinding you and limiting your country's diplomatic and business options.

TBH I see no real point in talking to you on this subject, you have your mind made up, I have my opinion.

I propose we just live and let live, Pole.
Seems like you are mixing up 2 things, and the example with Turkey clearly shows what those are.
Poles don't have a problem with Russians as people, from my experience we get along no worse than with other Slavs. They have a problem with Kremlin and its designs in Central Europe though. If Turkey was trying shady schemes to dominate Balkans again over last couple decades, the relations between them would be far worse too.
Like with Greece, which Turkey does have issues with regularly, and in turn Greece is even more "obsessed" with them than Poland is with Russia. Despite both being in NATO, hilariously enough.
 
There is just this obsession you Poles have with the Russians
I'm sorry to interfere but it's not obcession, it's just a subconscious act of Polish thought which makes us treat Russians as rivals who should be crushed into the ground because they have shown more than once and more than twice that it would be best for them if Poland sat quietly and preferably under their boot.
Of course, I wouldn't mind if we would get along with Russia on the principle: You take everything east of Dnieper and we take everything west of it and this way we would have eternal peace, but history shows that Russians naturally tried to separate themselves from their neighbors with a wall made of dead elbows of their neighbors and now they do the same. (Only now they pretend that those countries are free, and not gutted puppets by them.)

The Russians have already been our enemy for 500 years, and will continue to be so as long as both we and they exist. Because our natural paths of economic and cultural expansion cross. And Russia can only convince its neighbors with military force. We don't have to convince them so much, we have other more convincing approach, but our elites have to break out of their fears in which they have been sitting for about 80 years. (Either that, or they will be replaced by ones more capable of acting in our interests.) And their greatest achievement is, to enter NATO and EU and beat for them not our ideals of liberal democracy because the West does it, stick with the fact that slowly ordinary Poles notice that the King is naked. And many criticize our constant attempts to sow democracy instead of simply getting along with the one who seriously rules and giving him room to maneuver against Russia.

As for your friendship with Turks, it was a long time ago and it is not true, they did not murder your elites and did not replace them with their hideous colonial travesty which only knows how to look for protectors for itself all the time and ignores average Poles and their problems.

And what is more important, we have nothing against Russians, we have nothing against Germans. We just don't like Russia and Germany!
 
Last edited:
Seems like you are mixing up 2 things, and the example with Turkey clearly shows what those are.
Poles don't have a problem with Russians as people, from my experience we get along no worse than with other Slavs. They have a problem with Kremlin and its designs in Central Europe though. If Turkey was trying shady schemes to dominate Balkans again over last couple decades, the relations between them would be far worse too.
Like with Greece, which Turkey does have issues with regularly, and in turn Greece is even more "obsessed" with them than Poland is with Russia. Despite both being in NATO, hilariously enough.
They actually are trying to push their influence all over the place, but Erdogan being and idiot he keeps failing.
I am not excessively worried about it, though, even if I find the guy to be a buffoon I don't go out of the way to criticise him or shriek "Turkey Evil" all over the place.
They have a lot of internal problems that prevent them from being a major hindrance.

As to Putin's 'designs' on Central Europe, well, he wants a buffer and doesn't trust the west.
Austria has been a sort of buffer state, and it hasn't hurt them that much, IMO, personally I am more worried about the EU than I am about Putin or Erdogan trampling on my rights and interfering with my economic prosperity.

All I can say is, it will be hilarious to see what you think in a few years, when it turns out that most of this was just a storm in a tea cup and Bad Russia Bear has no interest in taking over Europe beyond writing a few USSR-era wrongs.

Your fear is irrational for the most part, taking a stance similar to that of Switzerland IMHO would be better than going all in for one side and hating on the other, with a strong military and deterrence capabilities.

Just build some nukes, then the itch will probably disappear adn you can start talking to Russia like normal people.
 
I'm sorry to interfere but it's not obcession, it's just a subconscious act of Polish thought which makes us treat Russians as rivals who should be crushed into the ground because they have shown more than once and more than twice that it would be best for them if Poland sat quietly and preferably under their boot.
Of course, I wouldn't mind if we would get along with Russia on the principle: You take everything east of Dnieper and we take everything west of it and this way we would have eternal peace, but history shows that Russians naturally tried to separate themselves from their neighbors with a wall made of dead elbows of their neighbors and now they do the same. (Only now they pretend that those countries are free, and not gutted puppets by them.)

The Russians have already been our enemy for 500 years, and will continue to be so as long as both we and they exist. Because our natural paths of economic and cultural expansion cross. And Russia can only convince its neighbors with military force. We don't have to convince them so much, we have other more convincing approach, but our elites have to break out of their fears in which they have been sitting for about 80 years. (Either that, or they will be replaced by ones more capable of acting in our interests.) And their greatest achievement is, to enter NATO and EU and beat for them not our ideals of liberal democracy because the West does it, stick with the fact that slowly ordinary Poles notice that the King is naked. And many criticize our constant attempts to sow democracy instead of simply getting along with the one who seriously rules and giving him room to maneuver against Russia.

As for your friendship with Turks, it was a long time ago and it is not true, they did not murder your elites and did not replace them with their hideous colonial travesty which only knows how to look for protectors for itself all the time and ignores average Poles and their problems.

And what is more important, we have nothing against Russians, we have nothing against Germans. We just don't like Russia and Germany!
Or you can stop trying to expand into their territory and they might do the same for you.
Most Slavdom is frankly Orthodox, and that is IMO the superior version of Christianity because it can be run locally, without a cucked trans-national NGO trying to pull the strings from outside.
Also I view you as too eager to be "western" as in follow the orders of those in Germany, or the UK or the USA.
Russia will be the bigger fish for decades on account of its larger economy, population and size,nuclear arsenal, and because it is not shackled by the EU, learn to deal with it.
You do not see this infantile behavior from the USA and Canada and the UK, and while I am not of the opinion that we can always sing cumbaya happily, grinding your axe against the Russians is counter-propductive.

Let us just forget our differneces and go make the Krauts give us reparations for a bunch of wars and genocide attempts, ok?
 
Or you can stop trying to expand into their territory and they might do the same for you.
Most Slavdom is frankly Orthodox, and that is IMO the superior version of Christianity because it can be run locally, without a cucked trans-national NGO trying to pull the strings from outside.
Also I view you as too eager to be "western" as in follow the orders of those in Germany, or the UK or the USA.
Russia will be the bigger fish for decades on account of its larger economy, population and size,nuclear arsenal, and because it is not shackled by the EU, learn to deal with it.
You do not see this infantile behavior from the USA and Canada and the UK, and while I am not of the opinion that we can always sing cumbaya happily, grinding your axe against the Russians is counter-propductive.

Let us just forget our differneces and go make the Krauts give us reparations for a bunch of wars and genocide attempts, ok?
Poland owned areas that Russia is claiming before Russia had it.
But obviously you seem to only care what Russia had during the height of communism
 
They actually are trying to push their influence all over the place, but Erdogan being and idiot he keeps failing.
I am not excessively worried about it, though, even if I find the guy to be a buffoon I don't go out of the way to criticise him or shriek "Turkey Evil" all over the place.
They have a lot of internal problems that prevent them from being a major hindrance.
That, and Middle East on the other border to keep their army busy. It doesn't keep their navy busy though, and that's what gets Greeks to take this seriously.
As to Putin's 'designs' on Central Europe, well, he wants a buffer and doesn't trust the west.
Austria has been a sort of buffer state, and it hasn't hurt them that much, IMO, personally I am more worried about the EU than I am about Putin or Erdogan trampling on my rights and interfering with my economic prosperity.
Austria is a different different kind of country, its a 9m country that's bound to be culturally dominated by Germany because language, so of course they don't seem hurt, they are a Germany addon either way.
Poland is in a completely different situation, and naturally has no neutrality option.
The right at least doesn't trust Germany and EU more than Russia, which is the reason behind the preference for relations with UK and USA - the latter is the world superpower, and being further away they are less interested in controlling us, unlike Germany which is close and as such, is interested.

All I can say is, it will be hilarious to see what you think in a few years, when it turns out that most of this was just a storm in a tea cup and Bad Russia Bear has no interest in taking over Europe beyond writing a few USSR-era wrongs.

Your fear is irrational for the most part, taking a stance similar to that of Switzerland IMHO would be better than going all in for one side and hating on the other, with a strong military and deterrence capabilities.
Would be great if we had Swiss geography to back that. Unfortunately Poland is good tank country and isn't out of the way. As it is, it would be idiotic of us to pretend we are Switzerland.

Just build some nukes, then the itch will probably disappear adn you can start talking to Russia like normal people.
Russia would probably blow a gasket, Germans would for sure, and Americans would not be too happy either. The only way this can happen is if both USA and Poland get seriously left triggering governments, i mean even beyond Trump, and decide to make that happen.
 
Poland owned areas that Russia is claiming before Russia had it.
But obviously you seem to only care what Russia had during the height of communism
Not that Tzarist Russia was actually larger than the USSR, those borders were largely there since before a bunch of ass end of nowhere colonies decided to kick out their king.
Poland invaded Russia repeatedly, on its own and as part of larger drives to push Catholicism into the East.
Also, how many poles are there in modern Russia exactly?
Probably a small minority, since most ethnic problems were fixed with the redrawing of borders after WWII, for starters Poland actually gained what was once Prussia and got territory further west that was populated by ethnic Poles, while it lost territory in modern day Belarus populated by, you guessed it, Belorussians and Russians.
Poles there number less than 4% of the total population primarily concentrated in a few areas in the west.
 
Or you can stop trying to expand into their territory and they might do the same for you.
What the fuck is their territory I ask? To fucking Kali tfu, Krolewiec we have bigger claims than they do. We have a bigger claim to the lands all the way to the Dnieper river, what's more important, we've been sitting here for three centuries, Russians barely 150.
And what is worse, our elites have it beaten into their heads that we should support independence in the East, Ukraniny and Belarus even to our own detriment, because without it there is no us, et cetera. We have already given up our claims there, and the Russians have only used it for themselves. So don't give me that we.

And as for the elites, as I say ordinary Poles are slowly getting fed up with their constant admiration that we should be like the West. And I'm sorry, but I'm a catholic and in the end for Poland orthodoxy fits like socialism or communism. And the time will come for the Krauts.

In fact, we even have one.
- Who would we beat first, if Germans and Russians entered Poland as in 1939?
- The Germans.
Why?
- Because first the duty, then the pleasure.
Poland invaded Russia repeatedly, on its own and as part of larger drives to push Catholicism into the East.
E what the fuck, first of all, we didn't invade Russia first, they invaded us. And more importantly our first war with them was an alliance war because we supported Lithuania. For about 500 years Russians have been pushing west at our expense, we didn't invade them, they invaded us. We were only reclaiming what we had lost.
Secondly, we didn't have any fucking desire to push Catholicism to the East, if we did there wouldn't be any Russians in Western Ukraine today, because they would be considerably Polonized.
You see, our nobility didn't build Latin churches for the colonists drawn from the Crown to the ruined Ruthenia, so they went to Greek Catholic and Orthodox churches, and as a result were subjected to Russification. While the Ruthenian elite, thanks to the Counter-Reformation, began to Polonize en masse.

And Ruskie, as I mentioned and you didn't notice, is our rival. And you don't connect with rivals you just try to get rid of them. So it's either us over them or them over us. And looking at it the Russkies only spend 4.5 more on military than we do. That's today the odds of fighting are pretty much even.
(I mean that today's Polish and Russian borders look like they did when both countries were founded).
 
Last edited:
Russia would probably blow a gasket, Germans would for sure, and Americans would not be too happy either. The only way this can happen is if both USA and Poland get seriously left triggering governments, i mean even beyond Trump, and decide to make that happen.

34069e.jpg


I approve of such a thing!
I mean, if it is the only thing that helps you with the Russia mania and insecurities and also triggers the entire West, well.
Fuck yeah, Nuklear Polish Ball!

I think the Russians will grumble in public, but they will probably be far less pissed in private, since they will anticipate you being less rabid and insecure and being easier to conduct realpolitik with.
 
What the fuck is their territory I ask? To fucking Kali tfu, Krolewiec we have bigger claims than they do. We have a bigger claim to the lands all the way to the Dnieper river, what's more important, we've been sitting here for three centuries, Russians barely 150.
And what is worse, our elites have it beaten into their heads that we should support independence in the East, Ukraniny and Belarus even to our own detriment, because without it there is no us, et cetera. We have already given up our claims there, and the Russians have only used it for themselves. So don't give me that we.

And as for the elites, as I say ordinary Poles are slowly getting fed up with their constant admiration that we should be like the West. And I'm sorry, but I'm a catholic and in the end for Poland orthodoxy fits like socialism or communism. And the time will come for the Krauts.

In fact, we even have one.
- Who would we beat first, if Germans and Russians entered Poland as in 1939?
- The Germans.
Why?
- Because first the duty, then the pleasure.


And Ruskie, as I mentioned and you didn't notice, is our rival. And you don't connect with rivals you just try to get rid of them. So it's either us over them or them over us. And looking at it the Russkies only spend 4.5 more on military than we do. That's today the odds of fighting are pretty much even.
(I mean that today's Polish and Russian borders look like they did when both countries were founded).
You do realize that Kievan Rus was a thing, that crusades against the Ortodox eastern european population were a thing and that you grabbed Rus territory, don't you?

Also, not a Russian here, as I have said repeatedly!

You can not hate on the west and be a fan of Catholicism, as Catholicism and its splinter sects are the West.

Sure, you can argue that Orthodoxy is also western and we should all go back to worshiping Veles and Perun, that is not something I am opposed to completely, btw.

I don't know how you latin-loving western fetishists see the various interventions by yourselves and the various other crusader groups into orthodox slavic lands, but we in the East see them as fucking invasions and attempts to forcibly Catholicize and Westernize the population, read put it under the west's cultural, political and economic heel.

No, thanks, keep kowtowing to whoever Rome picks and keep letting them interfere in your spiritual and cultural affairs!

13eb46047b3b21e1f82df1fe60b74a7e.png
 
You do realize that Kievan Rus was a thing, that crusades against the Ortodox eastern european population were a thing and that you grabbed Rus territory, don't you?
But you see, there's a little problem.
We didn't invade almost all of Rus' except for Halichi Rus', but we were still entitled to it because our king inherited it. Later we got Ukraine as a gift from Grand Duke of Lithuania who happened to be our king. Because he wanted us to fight with Moscow, who wanted to collect the Rus' lands and proclaimed itself the ruler of the whole Rus' owning less than 1/3 and, what's worse, the outskirts of the Rus'.
Secondly, I don't recall us doing any fucking crusades in the name of Catholicism against the damn Rus. As I remember we didn't like crusades and if we took part in them it was against pagan Prussians.
don't know how you latin-loving western fetishists see the various interventions by yourselves and the various other crusader groups into orthodox slavic lands, but we in the East see them as fucking invasions and attempts to forcibly Catholicize and Westernize the population, read put it under the west's cultural, political and economic heel.
Thirdly, I don't know what you think but we are no fetishists of the west, but we are not the fucking east, we never were. We're in between!
We follow the Pope because the Pope could give us protection against the damn Emperor of Germany's attention! That's how we remained independent unlike the Czechs. Because, for example, we got our own archbishopric barely 40 years after baptism.
What is more important, Polish priests, those Latinists for you, more than once and more than twice showed that they are greater Polish statesmen than many other members of the elite.

And no, we didn't force anyone to catholicize, because as I say, if we did, there wouldn't be Ukrainians as we know them, and if there were, they'd be the same as fucking Kashubians! They would consider themselves a subset of Poles.
And I'll tell you what may surprise you, Slavs are not of Orthodox faith, there are Protestant Slavs as well as Catholics, Ruthenia is not Slavs but part of it.

No, thanks, keep kowtowing to whoever Rome picks and keep letting them interfere in your spiritual and cultural affairs!

Honestly, Rome could only kiss our ass, because it had no way of enforcing its claims to us, because it was far away! And the German emperor was next to us and wanted to see us at home. The choice of the Pope as our protector was quite obvious. Especially when we see how the Czechs ended up and how we did.

And if you have a problem with the conquest of Rus, blame the pagan Lithuanians.
 
Nope, but stuff like this, if it did happen, would cause a diplomatic row and the MSM and the US deep state going ballistic, they love blaming stuff on Russia in which they had no hand in, like Trump winning in 2016.
It has.

Also, the global internet backbone has been under a lot of strain recently, so that might be causing some of the problems, not damaged cables, or maybe rough weather conditions and under-investment in infrastructure are the actual culprits.
They were cut.

See, this is why you come off as a shill.
 
And if you have a problem with the conquest of Rus, blame the pagan Lithuanians.
Those hussars with the weird wings that "Intervened" right after the death of Ivan the Terrible weren't Lithuanians, and that image has burned itself pretty deeply into the Russian psyche from a few of their historic movies that I have seen.
Frankly most of that area was heavily Byzantine-Bulgarian-Rus influenced, you have the Orthodox religion, the alphabet, the old church slavonic, the trade going through the cities of the Rus.
The various Teutons crusading against the Rus also left their mark, and you are coreligionists, basically.

IMHO Russia has more of a cultural and historic claim to it than you latinized Papists do.

Like it or not, you represent the evil west to them, be it by your own interventions or by association with crusades, the Russians have quite a few reasons to dislike you.

Also to add inslut to injury the Papists did undermine the Byzantine Empire and sacked Constantinopol, which was an important symbol and source of civilziation for all Eastern Orthodox Slavdom, and the damage they did probably sped up the disintegration of Byzantium and got the Turk to move in later on.
What did the Pope do when Constantine XI Palaiologos asked for help, eh?

Then again, if you have over a thousand years of history everyone has fought everyone else, our American friends here, who think that all of civilization started in 1776 and that history is some straight line of progression towards the perfection and universal implementation of their ideals don't really quite get that.

Stop obsessing over Russia, you are missing the forest for one single tree that you can't really do much about.

We have bigger, western fish of the EU variety, to fry.
 
I am skeptical of anti-Russia narratives after all the 'Muh Russia' MSM gibberish, I also mistrust them in general and I have a strong anti-Western bias, sue me.
I mean, it happened. Sure, they can't come right out and say they can't say for sure who it was, but considering who would have the means and the opportunity, as well as motivation (since Russia had complained out the microphone net and weather instrumentation previously), they (Norway and Sweden IIRC) aren't off base speculating, even if Russia denies it. If they did do it (and they probably did), why wouldn't they deny it? And then this military exercise comes along, and someone pointed out it just so happens to be taking place over where a bunch of cables happen to be coming into the UK. Interesting coincidence, no?
 
Those hussars with the weird wings that "Intervened" right after the death of Ivan the Terrible weren't Lithuanians, and that image has burned itself pretty deeply into the Russian psyche from a few of their historic movies that I have seen.
First, this was no intervention at all just a conquistador-style adventurous expedition into the Aztec or Inca empires to install a "true" heir to the throne.
Only later it turned into killing off the rival and intervening from the inside and you know what, I don't mind, I wish it had only worked out, there would never have been a monster called Russia.
I like to remind myself that Russian Independence Day marks the day we were thrown out of the Kremlin, but only after they had literally starved to death the defending crew and the repulsion had no troops to change that (too bad, at least Russia would have remained what it was throughout its history, a shithole in Asia).
That is why to this day Russians are afraid of us, because we always remind them who inflicted the biggest real wounds on them. Who held them all in hand easily for two centuries.
IMHO Russia has more of a cultural and historic claim to it than you latinized Papists do.
No, they don't. They make claims but the fact is that Moscow was a meaningless chicken coop not part of Ruthenia proper. Ruthenia proper is Kiev and Novgorod, and you know what the best part of that is? Both these cities did not want to be under Moscow's boot! In fact, the elites had no such problem being with us, even Novgorod, which wanted to join us, was actually abandoned by us out of stupidity. Later on, without any resistance in XVIth century, it surrendered to us and wanted to join us, for which Ivan IV the Coward (that's what we called him at home) burned down the city. What's even better, we didn't recognize the Tsar's imperial title for centuries, only since the mid-18th century this changed but only in diplomacy, for the Poles he was still an ordinary prince of Moscow pretending to be an emperor in his wooden henhouse.
You know we didn't use any real compulsion to polonize and in just a century
yet a large part of the elites from Ruthenia, Lithuania succumbed to it? And while Moscow had to kill some of them and put the rest in chains to do it.
Simple, because we offered advancement and made them equal with us, and they became Poles by themselves.

So the only one who has a problem is you. For the average Ruthenian of the nobility this was not a problem, what's even better is that we created, as it later turned out unnecessarily, the Greek Catholic Church which looks like Ordo but has Roman dogmas. Thanks to this Ukrainian national consciousness arose. (Although it could always cause that if the PLC didn't fall it would cause integration of Ruthenians into general Polish identity. *Note, here I am talking about Poles in the sense of an American, a real Pole then was a Koroniarz/Crowman).
The Muscovites did not like it very much and wanted to destroy it.
What did the Pope do when Constantine XI Palaiologos asked for help, eh?
No way, because it was not in the political interest, another thing was that it could not be changed. A century earlier? Maybe. But the Byzantine Empire was heading for its own downfall and only a miracle could save it. But in the 15th century? Byzantium was already dead and no amount of help from the Pope could change that.
Stop obsessing over Russia, you are missing the forest for one single tree that you can't really do much about.
I have no obcession, I take a pragmatic approach to Russia, and Russia as a country is not our ally or partner just a rival for power over Eastern Europe.
Of course it would be good if our elites would stop being so russophobic but it doesn't change the fact that it is our rival and we should stop being afraid of it and only try to get along with it and then destroy it like we did for the last 500 years.
We have bigger, western fish of the EU variety, to fry.
For me the EU is not an enemy but just another problem like Russia. Only first it wants us to secure our backsides, and then we can play with the EU because we can be sure that the Russkies will not try the old art of getting along with the Krauts.

I am skeptical of anti-Russia narratives after all the 'Muh Russia' MSM gibberish, I also mistrust them in general and I have a strong anti-Western bias, sue me.


Fighting the EU only makes sense if you have an alternative that is culturally equal to it, because you have to have the strength to challenge them. And honestly? Russia is a powdered corpse which can only offer bayonets. Ukraine is a hell hole despite having lands and resources which are worth more than the whole Silesia.
Belarus is forests, swamps and a road leading west-east.
Hungary is the remnants of a powerful country that can give something but needs help itself.
Romania and Moldova are another hole that needs money and corruption to be dealt with urgently.
Czech Republic and Slovakia are 1/3 of our total strength but they are worth attention and probably one of the countries that can keep up with us effectively. (Czech Republic may try to play on two fronts).
Former Yugoslavia, I prefer not to say here because I don't know the region, I guess you come from there so you can tell what they can give us for the anti-EU alliance.
Bulgaria, as above, I have a question are you Bulgarian? Although you might as well be Serbian, they like Russia.
Greece, I don't have to say that they need help with their economy and the only person who can do it is a strong autocrat, who by the way is a sincere patriot even capable of sacrificing his own good name for the country.

See what the problem is? The only two countries that can unite this region, Poland and Russia, are naturally immersed in their rivalry and there is nothing that unites them because everything separates us. Even as you noticed we don't consider Russians to be our cultural equals and it would fall on us, as it has for centuries, to create something culturally encouraging in the face of the liberalism of the sea countries.
No, Byzantium and its culture is only shared by less than half the population.
 
Yay, more irrationality and Russia-obsession coming from your end.
Face it, The Eastern Orthodox/Rus civilization was too big of a bite for you to ever swallow.
Serbia and a lot of the rest of the former Yugoslavia are not part of the EU and have strong anti-Western sentiment because of the 1999 war.
Russia is far from a powedered corpse, if anything it is a resurgent power after the damage the communists and perestroika did.
Also, I see you are happy to grab other people's land when there is instability there, so that basically turns any moral higher ground you can claim into a sand pit, congratulations, any grandstanding about Ukraine from you is rendered void now.
Also, Orban seems rather keen to get their aid, in fact most of the Central Europena region aside from you and the baltic countries doesn't really share your obsessive hate for Russia, and you are just an angry revanchist that can't live in the present and can't acknowledge legitimate security and ethnic concerns of countries that are not your own, a hypocrite.
Of course the Swedes are still pissed that Carolus got his ass handed to him, the Fins and the Norwegians, well, don't know that much about them, tbh, but they are probably more reasonable.

If I am Bulgarian so fucking what, Papist Pole?
Here is something another Bulgarian(sadly a commie) told the fucking nazis about us that is actually kinda-sorta applciable to Poland and its obsession about being the West's shill in the region:
Of course not, Mr. President.... At a period of history when the German Emperor Karl V vowed that he would talk German only to his horses, at a time when the nobility and intellectual circles of Germany wrote only Latin and were ashamed of their mother tongue, in 'barbarous' Bulgaria the apostles Cyril and Methodius invented and spread the use of the old' Bulgarian script.


The Bulgarian people have fought obstinately and with all their strength against foreign oppression. Therefore I protest here and now against these attacks on my people. I have no cause to be ashamed of being Bulgariain,

 
Damn, I hit it!
But going back, that's right, we consider ourselves superior to you and you to us. What's so strange about that?
Yes, we ate quite a lot, too much, and thanks to our own passivity we let Russia rise instead of killing it at the cradle's doorstep. Pride goes before a fall.
And I agree that we are stuck in the past, but as I say, Russia is our rival, and we will never get along with them because they are always against us. This is no anti-Russia. For you Russia is a defender of Orthodoxy, for us it is a rival which has panaroid tendencies because of us. So we must crush it or keep it in check.
I have a question for you, which country did Bulgaria challenge all the time as a rival on its way to power over the Balkans? Because there must have been one. Bulgaria's former empire was impressive.
And as for the lust for revenge, well, two of our neighbors de facto razed our country to the ground. We rebuilt it with difficulty with our own hands for 20 some years, all the time feeding the Soviet leech. Are you surprised at our desire to prevent this from happening by razing every threat to us?
And I don't recall ever preaching that our neighbors should be in ruins.
doesn't really share your obsessive hate for Russia
They don't have to share because we don't have it. For us, Russia is the enemy! Do you understand? For you, no, because they don't care about you! Your problem is your neighbors! We don't have any objections, just the simple fact that Russia is a threat to us and we know very well that just leaving them for a while is enough for them to try to corner us again. And I want us to go back to the old way of doing things, which means that we're the ones who are playing them off against each other.
If I am Bulgarian so fucking what, Papist Pole?
Here is something another Bulgarian(sadly a commie) told the fucking nazis about us that is actually kinda-sorta applciable to Poland and its obsession about being the West's shill in the region:
Who am I?
An ordinary Pole, because you see for us Catholicism is just another ornament, we might as well be prostestants or Orthodox. Because a Pole follows the motto not of freedom as it is commonly believed, but Pro Fide et Lege (For Faith and Law). The right to choose the king (president) and to overthrow tyrants and for his faith.

As for Latin, at the time when he lived, our poet Mikołaj Rej used to say ("Let others know that Poles are not geese and they have their own speech"). Something like that worked, but in our country Latin was something that everyone knew. What united the whole country, because you could use it to talk to anyone. And its level of integration into our language is so great that more than 1/3 of our words come from it, and we have many other features from it.
No wonder, we Poles were impressed by the Roman Republic. So please, your insults from papists don't matter to me.

Our culture is much different. We don't fear strangers but we eat them. And often these strangers are better Poles than the one who was born in it. Anders, Radziwill, Czartoryski, Wisniowiecki. Do you know what they had in common? That none of these names is purely Polish and yet these people did more for Poland than Jaruzelski, Gomulka.
To cut it short, to you the west is evil, too bad but we are the old west, we have nothing in common with you except that our language comes from the same group.
If we Poles have an obcession towards Russia, then you Bulgarians have it towards the West. Forgive me, but we are not impressed by Russia, it is an interesting fact. But as a rule it is us who impress them.
And as for the fact that Russia is developing, yes, but it is not as strong as you think, if we were not afraid of them we could foolishly give them a slap on the nose and keep them in check, but no, our elites, out of fear of Russia, give everything to our neighbors to the east of us, as long as they are against Russia even if it harms us! Thus our influence there, is gone because we didn't care to keep it.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top