PsihoKekec
Swashbuckling Accountant
Foreign workers, they have no religious rights.
Middle East Running Iranian threat news and discussion thread
- Thread starter GoldRanger
- Start date
I mean, we only really trust one if those countries more then the others, so far as to have a general of thiers be invovled in leading Americans.
The French sell everything to everyone, kind expect that. Great military though.
Point being, we treat you like France and Germany, though somewhat closer, but not as close as UK.
King Arts
Well-known member
A nation like Egypt is allowed to let in or deny any ships they want from entering their territorial waters, that is the default I can allow you to visit my home, or disallow you for any reason. You don't have a right to force me to let you use my property to cross because it's convenient. So no Egypt closing the Suez to Israeli shipping is not aggression. The Suez won't cut off trade it would just make it longer and more expensive because you'd have to sail around Africa instead of taking a short cut. Also a nation is allowed to use it's military however it wants within it's borders putting it's soldiers wherever inside it's territory. Now Egypt and Syria most likely were planning on attacking Israel, but here is the thing you don't know that for sure 100%. 99% is not 100% it was smart of Israel to attack, and I think it would be foolish to trust the Arabs, BUT you still attacked first preemptive "self defense" you don't get to declare yourself as only responding to aggression when you attack first. Even if almost every other country would have done the same thing in those circumstances, by attacking first it muddles the water and other nations would call that out, it's not Israel being treated meanly or bullied, many nations in a similar position would face the same criticisms.
LOL no I did not even think about the Israeli lobby. I'm just laughing at the bolded. It would be like if I was arguing with an Iranian person online and he said "Give me evidence of Iran supporting terrorists. And I'm not talking about something like IRGC supplying Hezbollah, I'm talking about big stuff."
Blackmailing politicians, assassinations, etc. that is subversion the Israeli Mossad is one of the best intelligence agencies in the world and they are smart they will use every advantage they can against their enemies why would they not subvert them or try to make them fight each other? It's just common sense.
This is unconvincing, just like when people said that if we left Vietnam communism would spread all over Asia, or if we leave Afghanistan Islam will take over everywhere even America.
Except the belligerent countries blocked the straits of Tiran (not the Suez Canal) which are international waters, and expelled the UN peacekeeping force in the Sinai. But even if that was in their territorial waters, fucking with Israeli access to blue waters by blocking it would still be a valid Casus Belli according to international norms. Blockading a country is an openly and explicitly belligerent act, especially through an area where 90% of its oil supply is passing.
What are you, a child? Do you think that a country with a strategic depth of like 50 miles is going to play silly "I'm not touching you so you can't touch me, nanana!" games? Massing an army on the border and declaring that you're going to attack is a valid pretext for war, period. Should Israel have waited until half its cities were burning just to satisfy you pedantic desire to play with technicalities and definitions? The country was under a very valid threat (which Egypt Syria and Jordan started, not Israel) and it justifiably attacked, end of story. Nobody gives a damn about childish technicalities other than those who are looking to spin the situation into anti-Israeli propaganda.
Is Israel taking over a country right now? If so, which one? Because I've named 5 that Iran is taking over, and linked to evidence of that's happening.
Here's another one, just because I'm feeling generous:
Iran's network of influence in Mid-East 'growing'
Iran has successfully embedded itself across the region despite sanctions, a study finds.
www.bbc.com
If you aren't convinced by facts then there's nothing more I can do here.
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I really don't get your point then, because the UK was also implicated with tech transfer to China... if such actions were a pretext to dropping relations entirely or something then I'd expect the US to be without allies right now.
Doomsought
Well-known member
Closing off your waters to a nation, like ejecting their diplomats, is a form of limited aggression that is almost only ever done as a prelude to war.
And that's not even what happened. What happened is Egypt closed off an international waterway that in effect closed off Israel's waters, not Egypt's.
Bear Ribs
Well-known member
Joining in on the dogpile on @King Arts, nations also don't get to just move their armies as they please inside their own borders. Even the AI in Civilization games will perceive moving numbers of military units near a shared border as causus belli for war and attack the player for it. No nation (that survived long) has ever been good with the army of a hostile border nation getting massed up at their borders and for good reason, most won't even tolerate close allies doing it.
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
And to clarify, this isn't 'You have a few garrison units at the border.'
This is 'large portions of your military that are usually stationed elsewhere are all moving to our border, far larger than could possibly be needed for a standard border garrison.'
This, while the leader of the nation is broadcasting on the radio, and I quote:
Cairo national radio (government controlled:
Iraqi president (sent expeditionary forces to aid Egypt, Syria and Jordan):
Etc etc.
You, and those like you, do not hesitate to blame all Palestinians and/or ''muh white nationalists'' every chance you get. So goose and gander,etc.
At this point, whether you or i agree about SA is irrelevant. We both have differing belief's, i just choose to suspect the people who financially support terrorists and chop up journalists as a likely enemy.
Show me a source that doesn't have israel in it by all means. Not 'muh facists' under the bed nonsense.
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Iran's military has ''plans'' to bomb and kill a ''hypothetical'' invasion, what's the problem then?
Where did I "blame all Palestinians and/or muh white nationalists"? Put up or shut up.
Umm, I don't know how to say it, but newsflash, Iran supports terrorists too, on a much larger scale than SA even: Iranian Links to International Terrorism: The Khatemi Era
And it's not like they have any issues with killing journalists either.
A source for what? That Saudi Arabia had nothing to do with 9/11? I mean, Osama bin Laden, the Taliban leader in Afghanistan, took responsibility for the attack, to which the US responded with an invasion of Afghanistan. Do you need a source for that? Maybe you're the one who needs to provide a source that SA did 9/11 because you're the one that's making a claim that goes counter to established history?
It's not "plans", it's an actual ongoing conquest by force of terror proxies.Iran's military has ''plans'' to bomb and kill a ''hypothetical'' invasion, what's the problem then?
I think that the problem with Iran issue is that people are trying to "sell" it to US isolationists, and ones hardline enough at that to be considered a fringe of US politics. Between their high willingness to ignore the events in other parts of the world and lack of interest in further implications of those events, it is nearly impossible. See: debate about US involvement with Taiwan vs China, no Israel involved there, ask same people.
But being more realistic about the isolationism...
The facts are that USA has alliances in that region for a reason, and contrary to what some may believe Israel is not the ultimate reason, oil is, its supply and price specifically, and the rest are just means to control these, or means to assist with the means.
This is why USA puts so much effort into the containment of the powder keg that Middle East is. Powder goes up, guess what oil prices will do - yeah, they also go up, and hard. Not even Joe/Barack bad, we're talking Greenpeace wet dream bad, combined with OPEC embargo level tensions over who will get what oil is available and what for. Some people propose that between price controls and not doing stupid democrat stuff USA could cushion the blow to itself with own supplies, but that only goes so far, and you know damn well that democrats and their allies will do everything to fuck it up, and have an international crisis to point at to excuse themselves, you know they would do exactly that, consider how much they are fucking it up even without one.
Why would Iran fuck things up so badly? Lets go back to the places with Iran's proxies throwing their weight around. Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq.
Forget about the first 3, these are not as important, well they are important to Israel, for their security, but not so much to wider western world. Yemen and Iraq are. Disturbingly enough, the latter two are also the only ones where Iran isn't merely one of the major players, but THE major player on the way to turning the given place into its very own satrapy, while in the remaining 3 they are just a major influence or supporter that would need to start a new civil war to even try to gain full control.
Now look at the map. Look at who do Iraq and Yemen border with. Start with the biggest.
Exactly. Who would expect the Shia theocracy to have *issues* with the Sunni theocratic monarchy who just so happens to hold most of the holy places of Islam, right?
www.independent.co.uk
By the way ignore the highest religious authorities of these two theocracies and arguably their whole sects doing a fancy version of publicly dissing each other, nothing to see here.
Can you guess where is it going?
Operation Islam Under New Management. With Iraq and Gulf States with all their oil as a side dish, both to finance the operation and hold western economies hostage to keep them from taking the "wrong" side, assuming they can deliver in the middle of a religious war of a scale not seen since centuries.
And now lets consider the other big second order effect of this. You have the whole Arabian Peninsula engulfed in a Shia-Sunni religious war led by ascendant Persian Empire, possibly with some spillover to nearby regions, world oil supply is spotty so economies crash left and right, what happens next.
Yup, a migrant crisis. One that makes the 2014 look like a demo. From 2014 we know where will they go, and its not USA, unless democrats decide to ship them over the Atlantic themselves, but even that would be hard to pull off on large scale.
And guess what kind of people will have the most reason to run...
So here's the big irony, in all the rational calculation, Europe and Middle East should care more about containing Iran than USA does, yet in reality its the other way around.
Then again, it is not an unheard of situation in the clown world of western politics, climate change politics are the same way - the countries most threatened by its theorized damage radius are nowhere near the most eager to throw money and other efforts into preventing it, of course its the do-gooder westerners again.
But being more realistic about the isolationism...
The facts are that USA has alliances in that region for a reason, and contrary to what some may believe Israel is not the ultimate reason, oil is, its supply and price specifically, and the rest are just means to control these, or means to assist with the means.
This is why USA puts so much effort into the containment of the powder keg that Middle East is. Powder goes up, guess what oil prices will do - yeah, they also go up, and hard. Not even Joe/Barack bad, we're talking Greenpeace wet dream bad, combined with OPEC embargo level tensions over who will get what oil is available and what for. Some people propose that between price controls and not doing stupid democrat stuff USA could cushion the blow to itself with own supplies, but that only goes so far, and you know damn well that democrats and their allies will do everything to fuck it up, and have an international crisis to point at to excuse themselves, you know they would do exactly that, consider how much they are fucking it up even without one.
Why would Iran fuck things up so badly? Lets go back to the places with Iran's proxies throwing their weight around. Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq.
Forget about the first 3, these are not as important, well they are important to Israel, for their security, but not so much to wider western world. Yemen and Iraq are. Disturbingly enough, the latter two are also the only ones where Iran isn't merely one of the major players, but THE major player on the way to turning the given place into its very own satrapy, while in the remaining 3 they are just a major influence or supporter that would need to start a new civil war to even try to gain full control.
Now look at the map. Look at who do Iraq and Yemen border with. Start with the biggest.
Exactly. Who would expect the Shia theocracy to have *issues* with the Sunni theocratic monarchy who just so happens to hold most of the holy places of Islam, right?
Saudi Arabia's top cleric says Iranians are 'not Muslims'
The country's leading cleric Sheikh Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah was responding to criticism by Iran's Ayatollah
www.independent.co.uk
Can you guess where is it going?
Operation Islam Under New Management. With Iraq and Gulf States with all their oil as a side dish, both to finance the operation and hold western economies hostage to keep them from taking the "wrong" side, assuming they can deliver in the middle of a religious war of a scale not seen since centuries.
And now lets consider the other big second order effect of this. You have the whole Arabian Peninsula engulfed in a Shia-Sunni religious war led by ascendant Persian Empire, possibly with some spillover to nearby regions, world oil supply is spotty so economies crash left and right, what happens next.
Yup, a migrant crisis. One that makes the 2014 look like a demo. From 2014 we know where will they go, and its not USA, unless democrats decide to ship them over the Atlantic themselves, but even that would be hard to pull off on large scale.
And guess what kind of people will have the most reason to run...
So here's the big irony, in all the rational calculation, Europe and Middle East should care more about containing Iran than USA does, yet in reality its the other way around.
Then again, it is not an unheard of situation in the clown world of western politics, climate change politics are the same way - the countries most threatened by its theorized damage radius are nowhere near the most eager to throw money and other efforts into preventing it, of course its the do-gooder westerners again.
Iran's military has ''plans'' to bomb and kill a ''hypothetical'' invasion, what's the problem then?
if they were just plans nothing much. The problem is that they want to be the hedegmon of the middle east under the shah or the secular government before him that was not a problem. But right now their a theocracy and that means we cant really trust them to be a responsible leader for the region.
We also do not want them to get nukes because every one in the region will follow and well a lot of them are bug fuck nuts.
I think that the problem with Iran issue is that people are trying to "sell" it to US isolationists, and ones hardline enough at that to be considered a fringe of US politics. Between their high willingness to ignore the events in other parts of the world and lack of interest in further implications of those events, it is nearly impossible. See: debate about US involvement with Taiwan vs China, no Israel involved there, ask same people.
But being more realistic about the isolationism...
The facts are that USA has alliances in that region for a reason, and contrary to what some may believe Israel is not the ultimate reason, oil is, its supply and price specifically, and the rest are just means to control these, or means to assist with the means.
This is why USA puts so much effort into the containment of the powder keg that Middle East is. Powder goes up, guess what oil prices will do - yeah, they also go up, and hard. Not even Joe/Barack bad, we're talking Greenpeace wet dream bad, combined with OPEC embargo level tensions over who will get what oil is available and what for. Some people propose that between price controls and not doing stupid democrat stuff USA could cushion the blow to itself with own supplies, but that only goes so far, and you know damn well that democrats and their allies will do everything to fuck it up, and have an international crisis to point at to excuse themselves, you know they would do exactly that, consider how much they are fucking it up even without one.
Why would Iran fuck things up so badly? Lets go back to the places with Iran's proxies throwing their weight around. Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Yemen, Iraq.
Forget about the first 3, these are not as important, well they are important to Israel, for their security, but not so much to wider western world. Yemen and Iraq are. Disturbingly enough, the latter two are also the only ones where Iran isn't merely one of the major players, but THE major player on the way to turning the given place into its very own satrapy, while in the remaining 3 they are just a major influence or supporter that would need to start a new civil war to even try to gain full control.
Now look at the map. Look at who do Iraq and Yemen border with. Start with the biggest.
Exactly. Who would expect the Shia theocracy to have *issues* with the Sunni theocratic monarchy who just so happens to hold most of the holy places of Islam, right?
By the way ignore the highest religious authorities of these two theocracies and arguably their whole sects doing a fancy version of publicly dissing each other, nothing to see here.Saudi Arabia's top cleric says Iranians are 'not Muslims'
The country's leading cleric Sheikh Abdul-Aziz ibn Abdullah was responding to criticism by Iran's Ayatollah
Can you guess where is it going?
Operation Islam Under New Management. With Iraq and Gulf States with all their oil as a side dish, both to finance the operation and hold western economies hostage to keep them from taking the "wrong" side, assuming they can deliver in the middle of a religious war of a scale not seen since centuries.
And now lets consider the other big second order effect of this. You have the whole Arabian Peninsula engulfed in a Shia-Sunni religious war led by ascendant Persian Empire, possibly with some spillover to nearby regions, world oil supply is spotty so economies crash left and right, what happens next.
Yup, a migrant crisis. One that makes the 2014 look like a demo. From 2014 we know where will they go, and its not USA, unless democrats decide to ship them over the Atlantic themselves, but even that would be hard to pull off on large scale.
And guess what kind of people will have the most reason to run...
So here's the big irony, in all the rational calculation, Europe and Middle East should care more about containing Iran than USA does, yet in reality its the other way around.
Then again, it is not an unheard of situation in the clown world of western politics, climate change politics are the same way - the countries most threatened by its theorized damage radius are nowhere near the most eager to throw money and other efforts into preventing it, of course its the do-gooder westerners again.
Iran would fight Saudis - but first,they would not succes,and third - if there would be even small chance for Iran to get Mekka,Turkey would attack them.And they would lost.
So,they are not problem,becouse they would kill themselves before they would have chance to attack Israel.
Muslims killing other muslims - for rest of the world it is ideal situation.
Refugees - if UE acted normal,they would no be problem
oil - if EU acted normal,we would live with coal.It could be turned into oil with current technology,problem is price - but if oil would be rare,it would be no problem.
Only problem - Russia would get much money and could start war.
Saudis have a meme army made of princelings, their servants and some mercenaries to do real fighting. Look at how they are doing in freaking Yemen, against Iran supported third world militias.
Iran's actual military would fold them like laundry.
That's a greater threat to them, but would wannabe Sultan be able to react fast enough?
How would they get to SA? They would have to invade Iran controlled Iraq first. Or alternatively Iran allied Syria. Or Iran itself, in a mountainous region.
And once they do, well, Iran still may want to have nukes as an insurance policy.
This isn't something easy to deal with even with full US support, nevermind alone.
Also the norm - see Iraq, Yemen.
EU is ideologically incapable of acting normally and you know it. EU would have to be controlled by Le Pen, AFD, Salvini and Orban to act normally. And in the unlikely scenario it happens, we will notice through the faint echo of incoherent screaming coming from the general direction of Brussels and its Administratum larping denizens.
As above. Someone would have to tell Germany's Greens to fuck off and live in hovels in Africa or something for low carbon footprint. Look at their polling results, won't happen.
That's another problem related to the above.
1.How could you say such thing about valiant oil princes??? jokes aside,, they are american forces there,right? and even if not,US air forces would stop any attack on dessert.
2.Turkey would crush Iraq forces quickly - look like "good" they were facing so called caliphate.
3.Indeed.Nor turks,nor iranian would agree to Caliph who would not be one of them.
4.True,but UE would made mess not matter what Iran would do
5.The same
6.Problem for me/i live in Poland/ or baltic states and Romania,but even with more money and Biden blessing KGB mafias are incapable of taking more.
The whole point of US isolationists is that they should all be withdrawn. And to fight that war there would need to be more sent.
Yup. Its not the army they need to worry about, its the Iran controlled and trained Shia militias in Iraq.
Turkey lost some Leo 2's to militias in their little foray into Syria, and those probably weren't even the nastiest ones...
That's the point, the EU fumbles about when nothing big is happening, but when Iran starts getting shit done, the EU will fall flat on its face and won't know how to get up.