Proposals in Regards to Immigration

[WolfBear]

But India is struggling so badly with developing because for all practical purposes it already is an empire, the place has 21 official languages FFS, and slightly less than half consider Hindi their first language.


That's the thing, it won't.

India is essentially a Hindu version of the EU and/or Austria-Hungary. It's pretty cool when you think about it. I just wish that India was much richer.

Voluntary eugenics for the win! In any case, you shouldn't be stingy about taking the Third World's smartest people since if you won't, then Canada, Australia, the UK, et cetera will, so the Third World itself won't actually benefit from this. In order for this to actually work, you'd need ALL developed countries to stop doing this, and countries like Canada won't because they care much more about their own country than they do about other countries.

 

[WolfBear]

FWIW, I'm not disputing that there is a real problem in regards to this:

Rich Countries Lure Health Workers From Low-Income Nations to Fight Shortages (Published 2022)

Huge pay incentives and immigration fast-tracks are leading many to leave countries whose health systems urgently need their expertise.

www.nytimes.com

I'm just saying that it's a tragedy of the commons-style situation because everyone here needs to do their part, and if one party doesn't, then there's no incentive for others to do their part either.

This is why a large-scale voluntary eugenics program for the developing world, along with perhaps the West and/or East Asia sending some/many of their own smart people to the developing world (either temporarily or permanently) to help the developing world develop further is a much better idea. Yes, the latter suggestion here would smack of neo-colonialism, but so what? Many Third Worlders yearn to be ruled by Westerners anyway since hundreds of millions of them want to move to the West.

 

[WolfBear]

The irony here is that if such a thing becomes economically, culturally, financially and medically feasible on a large scale, the people willing and able to do it will be, above all, the tech elites and political elites wanting to ensure that their heirs have the brains to keep the family in the business, not the poor and backwards, nevermind the underclass - after all, some of them waste such easy, cheap and already available opportunities to "increase" the mental capacities of their offspring as not doing crack and alcohol while pregnant.

This is why such technologies should be both subsidized and incentivized for the lower classes as well. How to incentivize lower classes to utilize such technologies if they are already subsidized for them, well, you and other people can go and put forward some ideas in regards to this.

 

[Marduk]

India is essentially a Hindu version of the EU and/or Austria-Hungary. It's pretty cool when you think about it. I just wish that India was much richer.

And the comparison to Austro-Hungary is exactly why it's not much richer. Due to that disunity it has to worry about rebellions and other political schisms too much to focus on getting richer.

Voluntary eugenics for the win! In any case, you shouldn't be stingy about taking the Third World's smartest people since if you won't, then Canada, Australia, the UK, et cetera will, so the Third World itself won't actually benefit from this. In order for this to actually work, you'd need ALL developed countries to stop doing this, and countries like Canada won't because they care much more about their own country than they do about other countries.

The more countries do it the deeper and more through the brain drain.

This is why such technologies should be both subsidized and incentivized for the lower classes as well. How to incentivize lower classes to utilize such technologies if they are already subsidized for them, well, you and other people can go and put forward some ideas in regards to this.

What good are technologies when the culture and law struggle to get them to do some rather basic things that would have great cost to benefit effects regarding the future of their children, if the politicians even bother at all instead of doing stupid shit that works to the contrary, like critical theory in education.

 

[WolfBear]

And the comparison to Austro-Hungary is exactly why it's not much richer. Due to that disunity it has to worry about rebellions and other political schisms too much to focus on getting richer.

The more countries do it the deeper and more through the brain drain.

What good are technologies when the culture and law struggle to get them to do some rather basic things that would have great cost to benefit effects regarding the future of their children, if the politicians even bother at all instead of doing stupid shit that works to the contrary, like critical theory in education.

The EU works better, no?

It would make the brain drain go faster but it would probably ultimately not prevent it. Whether the brain drain occurs over 100 years or over 30 years ultimately makes no difference to the countries being affected since the ultimate amount of human capital lost is the same either way in the long(er)-run, no?

The interesting thing, though, is that one doesn't exclude the other. Anti-alcohol and anti-tobacco campaigns during pregnancy can be combined with promoting such new technologies. And critical race theory is just downright stupid, not to mention very possibly false. I would only support teaching critical race theory if American Renaissance was also simultaneously taught everywhere that teaches CRT as an alternative viewpoint. Yes, seriously.

 

[Marduk]

The EU works better, no?

EU still is just an organization of sovereign states. It's not an unlikely possibility that if the craziest eurocrats get their wish and make it into a single, central state, it will work like crap.

It would make the brain drain go faster but it would probably ultimately not prevent it. Whether the brain drain occurs over 100 years or over 30 years ultimately makes no difference to the countries being affected since the ultimate amount of human capital lost is the same either way in the long(er)-run, no?

But if it doesn't go too fast some regeneration is possible. If x amount of highly talented people leave over 100 years, that's nowhere near as bad as if they left over 30 years, because over that 100 years 3-4 more generations of highly talented people were born.

The interesting thing, though, is that one doesn't exclude the other. Anti-alcohol and anti-tobacco campaigns during pregnancy can be combined with promoting such new technologies. And critical race theory is just downright stupid, not to mention very possibly false. I would only support teaching critical race theory if American Renaissance was also simultaneously taught everywhere that teaches CRT as an alternative viewpoint. Yes, seriously.

It is however a demonstration of political and popular interest in the matter. There are already simple, clear, relatively easy non-technological ways to do the same to a degree, but they are trumped by various other political concerns.

 

[WolfBear]

EU still is just an organization of sovereign states. It's not an unlikely possibility that if the craziest eurocrats get their wish and make it into a single, central state, it will work like crap.

But if it doesn't go too fast some regeneration is possible. If x amount of highly talented people leave over 100 years, that's nowhere near as bad as if they left over 30 years, because over that 100 years 3-4 more generations of highly talented people were born.

It is however a demonstration of political and popular interest in the matter. There are already simple, clear, relatively easy non-technological ways to do the same to a degree, but they are trumped by various other political concerns.

Very possibly, Yes. That said, though, even right now, the EU is a confederation, no? It's obviously less than a federation but there are still elements of different states uniting and coordinating various aspects of their policies, such as on foreign policy, on trade, et cetera, no? In this regard, the EU might be comparable to the German Confederation of the post-Napoleonic era, no? The one that got abolished by Bismarck.

But then the additional highly talented people would simply leave over the next 100 years, and due to below-replacement fertility replacements for them won't be as easy to come by, no?

Such as? I mean other than not drinking alcohol and not smoking during pregnancy?

 

[Marduk]

Very possibly, Yes. That said, though, even right now, the EU is a confederation, no?

Not really, more like half a confederation.

But then the additional highly talented people would simply leave over the next 100 years, and due to below-replacement fertility replacements for them won't be as easy to come by, no?

Well but then again 3-4 generations will be born over that 100 years.
The difference we are talking about here is between, say, losing 20% of highly talented people per generation and losing 60% of highly talented people per generation. Obviously the latter is much worse.

Such as? I mean other than not drinking alcohol and not smoking during pregnancy?

Those are the heaviest hitting variables among those that are clear, have well defined solutions and obviously bad, at least in context of first world countries (in third world nutrition and pollution can still get this significant too).

 

[WolfBear]

Well but then again 3-4 generations will be born over that 100 years.
The difference we are talking about here is between, say, losing 20% of highly talented people per generation and losing 60% of highly talented people per generation. Obviously the latter is much worse.

Either way, though, the population will still end up being duller after this emigration relative to before. If dull and smart people have the same TFR but smart people emigrate at much higher rates, then the smart share of the total population will still decline over time. This process will simply occur at a slower rate in this scenario than in a more intense brain drain scenario.

 

[WolfBear]

There were Jewish enclaves in most of Europe for over a thousand years, and they never fully intergrated.

That was not entirely these Jews' fault, if one wants to be fair. Historically, assimilation often required conversion to Christianity, no? It's only in the 1700s and 1800s when this began changing, IIRC.

 

[ATP]

That was not entirely these Jews' fault, if one wants to be fair. Historically, assimilation often required conversion to Christianity, no? It's only in the 1700s and 1800s when this began changing, IIRC.

Jews never assimilates - with one exception.They had big minority during Tang dynasty,and till Ming dynasty all was were left was slighty different chineese beliving in confuncianism.
And no,nobody genocided them/with possible mongol exception/