Proposals in Regards to Immigration

[WolfBear]

If Eastern European countries want to increase their population, why not try getting large numbers of immigrants from non-Muslim Asian countries? I mean from places like China, Vietnam, Thailand, India, et cetera. They could, of course, also seek immigrants from Latin America, just so long as these immigrants won't actually significantly increase the crime rate in Eastern Europe. This seems like a great way to boost Eastern Europe's population while also increasing the odds of these immigrants successfully assimilating, no? Europe's main problem with a lack of immigrant assimilation has to do with Muslim immigrants and their descendants, to my knowledge; non-Muslim immigrants, especially those from Asia, don't tend to generate as much controversy--especially if they are not as dysfunctional as the Roma are on average.

Anyway, what do you think?

 

[Simonbob]

Anyway, what do you think?

I think they see any other ethnic group as "not them".

Bringing in any group in large numbers is diluting their Tribe.



The West has become a place where Racism is Wrong. Those Eastern European countries don't have that background. They're still full of racism.



The West is full of people who don't get the simple fact that most of the world is still racist.

 

[WolfBear]

I think they see any other ethnic group as "not them".

Bringing in any group in large numbers is diluting their Tribe.



The West has become a place where Racism is Wrong. Those Eastern European countries don't have that background. They're still full of racism.



The West is full of people who don't get the simple fact that most of the world is still racist.

It's regrettable that one could not have a big-tent approach to nationalism whenever realistically possible, similar to non-Nazi German nationalist groups in the late 19th and early 20th centuries who accepted assimilated German Jews into their ranks or, for that matter, the present-day Trumpist MAGA movement to some extent.

 

[Simonbob]

It's regrettable that one could not have a big-tent approach to nationalism whenever realistically possible, similar to non-Nazi German nationalist groups in the late 19th and early 20th centuries who accepted assimilated German Jews into their ranks or, for that matter, the present-day Trumpist MAGA movement to some extent.

I'm not entirely sure it's for the best, actually.

Much of the West is fragmenting, with many groups not connecting with, or supporting large parts of those who are legally their fellow citizens. The less inclusive approach is likely to be more stable.

 

[WolfBear]

I'm not entirely sure it's for the best, actually.

Much of the West is fragmenting, with many groups not connecting with, or supporting large parts of those who are legally their fellow citizens. The less inclusive approach is likely to be more stable.

Perhaps. But then again, I think that more race realism could reduce social tensions in the US. And don't Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have a lot of social cohesion in spite of them being very diverse?

 

[Simonbob]

Perhaps. But then again, I think that more race realism could reduce social tensions in the US. And don't Canada, Australia, and New Zealand have a lot of social cohesion in spite of them being very diverse?

No, not really.

The Brit decended groups who are the founding groups spend a lot of time pretending All is Well, but, well....

There's a problem with Islamic terrorism, with quiet racism, the ex-chinese and the ex-indians hate each other, and the middle eastern groups hate each other, and will rebel against any attempt to make them more Western.


There's no social cohesion. I was chatting to a greek decended guy a few days ago, and his main line of conversation? "Those Chinese are the worst drivers!"


Everybody just doesn't want to talk about it, while there's enough pressure to keep it all down. But, the force keeping it down is slowly dying. This is going to be a massive explosion.

 

[WolfBear]

No, not really.

The Brit decended groups who are the founding groups spend a lot of time pretending All is Well, but, well....

There's a problem with Islamic terrorism, with quiet racism, the ex-chinese and the ex-indians hate each other, and the middle eastern groups hate each other, and will rebel against any attempt to make them more Western.


There's no social cohesion. I was chatting to a greek decended guy a few days ago, and his main line of conversation? "Those Chinese are the worst drivers!"


Everybody just doesn't want to talk about it, while there's enough pressure to keep it all down. But, the force keeping it down is slowly dying. This is going to be a massive explosion.

I thought that the Middle Easterners whom they imported are generally the cognitive elites of their home countries?

 

[ATP]

If Eastern European countries want to increase their population, why not try getting large numbers of immigrants from non-Muslim Asian countries? I mean from places like China, Vietnam, Thailand, India, et cetera. They could, of course, also seek immigrants from Latin America, just so long as these immigrants won't actually significantly increase the crime rate in Eastern Europe. This seems like a great way to boost Eastern Europe's population while also increasing the odds of these immigrants successfully assimilating, no? Europe's main problem with a lack of immigrant assimilation has to do with Muslim immigrants and their descendants, to my knowledge; non-Muslim immigrants, especially those from Asia, don't tend to generate as much controversy--especially if they are not as dysfunctional as the Roma are on average.

Anyway, what do you think?

If Poland rulers wonted that,they would let people live normally,no plaing in CN virus and crushing small polish bussiness.

 

[Simonbob]

I thought that the Middle Easterners whom they imported are generally the cognitive elites of their home countries?

I don't really know, but I suspect not. The Elite of those kind of places would be giving up massive power to move here.

I think it's mostly the smarter middle class. They can get enough money to get here, and are entirely willing to use the system to the max, but the top guys mostly stay home because the contrast, high to low IQ, is immense.

 

[WolfBear]

I don't really know, but I suspect not. The Elite of those kind of places would be giving up massive power to move here.

I think it's mostly the smarter middle class. They can get enough money to get here, and are entirely willing to use the system to the max, but the top guys mostly stay home because the contrast, high to low IQ, is immense.

Makes sense. I do wonder if the Muslim smarter middle classes are particularly radicalized, though.

 

[Simonbob]

Makes sense. I do wonder if the Muslim smarter middle classes are particularly radicalized, though.

Some are, I'm sure, but mostly I think it's just that Islam is quite violent, relitive to other main Faiths. There's also the kids of immigrants who are now looking for something to belong to, and the nation isn't enough, so they get into the faith.

There's a number of reasons why it's more likely with anybody with a connection to Islam is more likely to go down that path.

 

[WolfBear]

Some are, I'm sure, but mostly I think it's just that Islam is quite violent, relitive to other main Faiths. There's also the kids of immigrants who are now looking for something to belong to, and the nation isn't enough, so they get into the faith.

There's a number of reasons why it's more likely with anybody with a connection to Islam is more likely to go down that path.

Does a part of this have to do with the fact that Islam was founded by a conqueror rather than by a peaceful hippie-like figure as with Christianity and Buddhism? Which other major religions were founded by conquerors, BTW?

 

[Simonbob]

Does a part of this have to do with the fact that Islam was founded by a conqueror rather than by a peaceful hippie-like figure as with Christianity and Buddhism? Which other major religions were founded by conquerors, BTW?

Hmm.


I don't know.

I've never though about it from that persective. I'll think about it, might see what I can find.

 

[WolfBear]

Hmm.


I don't know.

I've never though about it from that persective. I'll think about it, might see what I can find.

Yes, please do research this topic. Everything must have some kind of cause, after all. That said, though, I was primarily talking about non-Muslim immigration to Eastern Europe here.

 

[Simonbob]

Yes, please do research this topic. Everything must have some kind of cause, after all. That said, though, I was primarily talking about non-Muslim immigration to Eastern Europe here.

While Islamic groups are pretty obvious about how rough the longer term issues are going to be, in a number of places around the world, the Chinese and Indians, amongst others, have also shown that assimilating isn't something near as easy as it seems.

There's been a Chinatown in cities around the world, for over a century. Religious intergration? Nope, not much. Cultural intergration? A bit, but not total.

It's just economic intergration that's happening. And, longer term, that's not enough.

 

[WolfBear]

While Islamic groups are pretty obvious about how rough the longer term issues are going to be, in a number of places around the world, the Chinese and Indians, amongst others, have also shown that assimilating isn't something near as easy as it seems.

There's been a Chinatown in cities around the world, for over a century. Religious intergration? Nope, not much. Cultural intergration? A bit, but not total.

It's just economic intergration that's happening. And, longer term, that's not enough.

What exactly is wrong with Chinatowns? I myself love them, after all!

 

[Simonbob]

What exactly is wrong with Chinatowns? I myself love them, after all!

They're ethnic enclaves.

They're not entirely part of your nation. And, unless something changes? They might never be fully part of your nation.


There were Jewish enclaves in most of Europe for over a thousand years, and they never fully intergrated.

 

[LordsFire]

They're ethnic enclaves.

They're not entirely part of your nation. And, unless something changes? They might never be fully part of your nation.


There were Jewish enclaves in most of Europe for over a thousand years, and they never fully intergrated.

I can't speak for the rest of the world, but Chinese immigrants generally integrate pretty well into American culture. I have some friends whose last name is literally 'Han,' and they're as American as anyone else I know. My roommate's girlfriend is... her parents both immigrated from China, I forget if that makes her first or second generation. Her parents both have strong accents and from what I gather tend to socialize with other Chinese speakers (though not exclusively), but she's just as American as any from her generation of immigration.

Obviously this is still just anecdotal, but this pattern has been true for literally every family of Chinese ethnicity and American citizenship I've met that came to the US before 2000.

 

[Simonbob]

Obviously this is still just anecdotal, but this pattern has been true for literally every family of Chinese ethnicity and American citizenship I've met that came to the US before 2000.

Not fully, in my experience. There was a kid I was friends with, when I was a kid. Spoke Aussie, raised here, to parents born here, to grandparents born here.

Still Buddist. Still capable of serious doublespeak, although he didn't like it.


Although, I'm not really saying that every indivdual will keep some seperation, so much as the larger the group, the more impossible it is for them to fully vanish into the greater population.



Heck, there were Christians in Japan who refused to vanish, hid instead for centuries. There were Muslims in Spain, through all sorts of pressure for over 800 years.



Economic integration, sure. That seems universal, and easy. Full integration, to the point there's not difference, no point of conflict? Hah. Good luck with that.

 

[LordsFire]

Not fully, in my experience. There was a kid I was friends with, when I was a kid. Spoke Aussie, raised here, to parents born here, to grandparents born here.

American culture has uniquely absorptive properties, even if it isn't to the level it used to be.

Simply by the rules that operate around large numbers, sure, there'll be some individuals that don't fully integrate, but with those who came from China to America, 'Chinatown' type enclaves seem to have declined into 'that's where all the ethnic cuisine of that type is' rather than 'people speak Mandarin more than English there.'