Polish president compares 'LGBT ideology' to Soviet indoctrination

[DarthOne]

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www.reuters.com

BRZEG, Poland (Reuters) - Poland’s president compared LGBT “ideology” to communist doctrine in a campaign speech on Saturday, as LGBT rights become a hotly debated issue ahead of a June 28 presidential election in the staunchly Catholic country.

President Andrzej Duda is an ally of the ruling nationalist Law and Justice Party (PiS), which dismisses the promotion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) rights as a foreign influence undermining Poland’s traditional values.

On Wednesday, Duda introduced a “Family Card” of election proposals, including a vow to not allow gay couples to marry or adopt children and to ban teaching about LGBT issues in schools.


“My parents’ generation for forty years fought to eliminate communist ideology from schools, so it couldn’t be forced on children. So youth, children, soldiers and youth organizations couldn’t be indoctrinated,” Duda told a rally in the southwestern town of Brzeg.

“They didn’t fight for this so that a new ideology would appear that is even more destructive.”

Opposition candidates and LGBT rights groups condemned Duda’s speech.


Love Does Not Exclude, a Polish rights group, told Reuters Duda’s proposals were similar to the Russian government’s decision to ban “homosexual propaganda”.

The Left’s presidential candidate, Robert Biedron, the first Polish politician to openly identify as gay, called on Duda to “be done with this hatred” in a tweet posted after the speech.

Poland is a former satellite state of the Soviet Union and was the first country to shed communism in the region in 1989. This year the country was voted the worst in the European Union for LGBT rights in a poll by Brussels-based NGO ILGA-Europe.

Personally, I do not think any gay person should be shamed or prejudiced against simply for being gay. Nevertheless, we're seeing the consequences that failing to uphold normally is having in our society. We have arrived at the bizarre situation where deviancy and vice as treated as virtues (pride is no longer a sin, it's treated as something worth celebrating). This is obviously bad for our society.

Many of our institutions depend upon normal things being normal and these include the idea of monogamy, which promotes stable marriages and which allow a child to be reared by both sexes, which is important for their full development (given that men and women have different parenting styles). Obviously this isn't true in every case, but we rely on averages, not exceptions, when crafting the general rules to apply to our society. So I think you can make a secular argument for discriminating against homosexuality in the sense that you don't permit gay marriage and you do deem it to be deviant.

There isn't anything wrong with wanting equal rights, there is something wrong when a movement is about having above equal rights or trampling on the rights of others. Gay marriage should have never been an issue in the US because marriage should never have become a government institution in the first place.

 

[LordsFire]

This brings it back to the fundamental issue of "Are LGBT practices immoral or not?"

And the answer always comes back to 'What defines morality?'

And the answer to that comes to "Do you believe in God or not?"

Because when you actually work through the philosophy, morality is either handed down from a higher authority, a matter of personal opinion, or nonexistent. If there's any kind of coherent argument for any other position, I've yet to hear it.


Part of why the Christian right has fought homosexual marriage so hard, is it has been seen as the final push to rejecting God in culture at large.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

This brings it back to the fundamental issue of "Are LGBT practices immoral or not?"

And the answer always comes back to 'What defines morality?'

And the answer to that comes to "Do you believe in God or not?"

Because when you actually work through the philosophy, morality is either handed down from a higher authority, a matter of personal opinion, or nonexistent. If there's any kind of coherent argument for any other position, I've yet to hear it.


Part of why the Christian right has fought homosexual marriage so hard, is it has been seen as the final push to rejecting God in culture at large.

Somehow, I think if there were an Atheist Right coming from Poland, they’d have different reasons for NOT wanting to support LGBT so much

It has to do with Trans-Surgeries being horrible and with horrible side effects

A sudden stream of ugly political lesbians who don’t even like girls

That said, yeah, as annoying as it is, their dependence on traditional values is what’s keeping them from mass importing guys with REGRESSIVE values and the like

 

[King Krávoka]

"Communist" indoctrination is laughable, as the LGBT movement originated in America, with uniquely American traits. It's built on the tendency of Americans towards fractally nationalistic thinking, and particularly the tendency of the American "Left" to rephrase all class conflict into being inter-tribal conflict. It's not a particular ideology since their unifying factor is not a model of ethics, but a shared identity and actions made to protect that identity.

 

[Free-Stater 101]

SNIP

Well this is a charged and opinionated statement if I have ever seen one, as I remember the Netherlands being the first country to legalize gay marriage three years ahead of the U.S..

 

[Cherico]

by LGBT idology which one is the polish leader talking about?

Because the movement does have quite a few thinkers, some of them very libertarian and Lazai fair, some middle of the road and yes some who are openly Marxist. Depending on who he's talking about he might be completely accurate.

 

[Laskar]

Well this is a charged and opinionated statement if I have ever seen one, as I remember the Netherlands being the first country to legalize gay marriage three years ahead of the U.S..

I don't know about the political climate of the Netherlands, but LGBT ideology is a separate thing from legalized gay marriage. The LGBTQ Pride movement is a political movement that will throw lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transexuals under the bus if they stray from an accepted political orthodoxy. It is a movement that will not tolerate coexistence with the Christian Right, but will organize "Gays for Palestine" rallies even though Muslims are far more hostile toward homosexuals than Christians are.

The LGBTQ Pride movement encourages their members to bundle their politics with other political movements, almost exclusively with the Progressive Left. Hence why these groups scored victories on transgender bathroom access and gay marriage and promptly moved on to the pressing LGBTQ rights issues of gun control and climate change. This is because the LGBTQ Pride movement was either founded on or captured by intersectionality theory, depending on who you ask.

Intersectionality theory holds that people must be treated as groups based on their immutable characteristics, and the only interaction these groups have is through power dynamics. Your life experiences, your beliefs, and your actions are entirely determined by your membership in a group, and therefore by your immutable characteristics. This is complete anathema to the concept of individual rights, and has more in common with collectivist movements like communism or identitarian movements like Pan-Arabism. Therefore, the push for LGBTQ-friendly instruction in schools or positive representation in media or reparations is not about equal rights, but rather about advancing the "oppressed" identity groups ahead of the "oppressor" groups in a power hierarchy.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

"Gays for Palestine" rallies even though Muslims are far more hostile toward homosexuals than Christians are.

Palestinians are fans of Hitler and read Mein Kampf.....and you know what the Nazi’s did to homosexuals

 

[PsihoKekec]

Palestinians don't murder gays because they have on Mein Kampf on the bookshelf, they murder them because it written so in the Koran. The LGBTQ activists however don't care about that, they care about sticking it to the man - Israel and Israel supporting conservatives.

 

[Abhorsen]

Well this is a charged and opinionated statement if I have ever seen one, as I remember the Netherlands being the first country to legalize gay marriage three years ahead of the U.S..

Gay marriage was not the beginning of gay activism. Modern gay activism started in 1969 with the Stonewall Riots, in NYC, which then served as a launch point for a number of gay organizations, all of which started in the US. Make no mistake, LGBT activism is very American.

Meanwhile, this is a wildly offensive comparison. Not to LGBT people, but the people who were actually in the USSR and being indoctrinated and re-educated and tortured and disappeared. The president is basically watering down the horror of that action by using it in this way.

 

[Guardian Box]

Meanwhile, this is a wildly offensive comparison. Not to LGBT people, but the people who were actually in the USSR and being indoctrinated and re-educated and tortured and disappeared. The president is basically watering down the horror of that action by using it in this way.

No, he's completely right. The rhetoric and techniques used by the LGBT groups and their lefty activist allies are pretty much what the communist regime used here in their propaganda.

You are presenting a strawman here when you bring up the extreme political repression of the soviet union, while Duda clearly does not speak about that, but the ideological indoctrination in, say, schools.

 

[Abhorsen]

No, he's completely right. The rhetoric and techniques used by the LGBT groups and their lefty activist allies are pretty much what the communist regime used here in their propaganda.

You are presenting a strawman here when you bring up the extreme political repression of the soviet union, while Duda clearly does not speak about that, but the ideological indoctrination in, say, schools.

He calls LGBT ideology worse than communism. And even full on LGBT crazy ideology (unless it's somehow much worse in Poland than in America) isn't nearly as evil as communism, lacking the mass starvation, mass murder, mass torture, etc.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Palestinians don't murder gays because they have on Mein Kampf on the bookshelf, they murder them because it written so in the Koran. The LGBTQ activists however don't care about that, they care about sticking it to the man - Israel and Israel supporting conservatives.

They can do it for both books

That said, yup, they do it to “stick it to the man” all while supporting another dude WORSE than “the man” almost all stereotypes and worse than it

 

[Morphic Tide]

And even full on LGBT crazy ideology (unless it's somehow much worse in Poland than in America) isn't nearly as evil as communism, lacking the mass starvation, mass murder, mass torture, etc.

The key thing is that Communism as Poland experienced it was essentially "just" an immoral imperial government looking to trap the populace in chains of fear and apathy. Meanwhile, the LGBT ideology is pushing to outright destroy the foundations of society itself in many respects, with the populace pressed into active zealotry.

Rebuilding after Communism is primarily an economic affair of re-introducing the populace to markets, with a rather mild need of restructuring governance to enable the market to be revived. Rebuilding after an intersectional takeover means having to de-program or replace the entire upper classes, because there simply is no place in that order for a non-believer in power.

Communism makes followers, Intersectionalism makes adherents. Communist propaganda seeks to leave the public misinformed so it cannot resist, Intersectionalism seeks to make the populace actively believe so it deliberately supports.

 

[Guardian Box]

He calls LGBT ideology worse than communism. And even full on LGBT crazy ideology (unless it's somehow much worse in Poland than in America) isn't nearly as evil as communism, lacking the mass starvation, mass murder, mass torture, etc.

A bit of a hyperbolic political statement, but not something to get your panties in a twist over.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

Communism makes followers, Intersectionalism makes adherents. Communist propaganda seeks to leave the public misinformed so it cannot resist, Intersectionalism seeks to make the populace actively believe so it deliberately supports.

Intersectionalism in a way, unintentionally learns from the past of Communism, and realizes how one can truly rule souls

Make it way more than just about economics and asshole upper class people, make the asshole upper class people some cabal of ciswhite heterosexual males and maybe even religious(specifically Roman-Catholic, Christian or any other off-shoots and maybe expand afterwards the moment Buddhism disagrees too much)

 

[Deleted member]

I don't know about the political climate of the Netherlands, but LGBT ideology is a separate thing from legalized gay marriage. The LGBTQ Pride movement is a political movement that will throw lesbians, gays, bisexuals and transexuals under the bus if they stray from an accepted political orthodoxy. It is a movement that will not tolerate coexistence with the Christian Right, but will organize "Gays for Palestine" rallies even though Muslims are far more hostile toward homosexuals than Christians are.

The LGBTQ Pride movement encourages their members to bundle their politics with other political movements, almost exclusively with the Progressive Left. Hence why these groups scored victories on transgender bathroom access and gay marriage and promptly moved on to the pressing LGBTQ rights issues of gun control and climate change. This is because the LGBTQ Pride movement was either founded on or captured by intersectionality theory, depending on who you ask.

There aren’t enough likes in the world for this post for that clear and cogent summary of what the LGBT ideology is and what’s wrong with it as distinct from the people it claims to represent. Thank you.

 

[CarlManvers2019]

There aren’t enough likes in the world for this post for that clear and cogent summary of what the LGBT ideology is and what’s wrong with it as distinct from the people it claims to represent. Thank you.

It's annoying how a bunch of Trans Trenders & Political Lesbians alongside other douches actually from the LGBT Community, managed to co-opt it and essentially make the "Slippery Slope Fallacy" regarding LGBT into "truth"

They don't want acceptance, they want people to bow down, apologize and give "reparations"

Hell, they'll probably turn on any LGBT who disagrees

 

[PsihoKekec]

They can do it for both books

No they don't. Mein Kampf is barely a blip there and gays are hardly mentioned there, while Koran is the book that regulates their life (even if PA is somewhat secular) and has clear commandment to kill the gays.

 

[Tryglaw]

Ok, Polish guy here. First and foremost, Duda and Law and Justice are conservative in name only, and even then not so much. Heck, it's open secret among Warsaw gay scene that both Jarosław Kaczyński (LaJ leader) and Zbigniew Ziobro (Justice Minister) are LGBT themselves (G for Kaczyński, G or B for Ziobro considering he's married) and used to be a couple. Really...

Them being "conservative" is about them being conservative in comparison to ultra-liberal mainstream. Also they get denounced for being "anti-EU", while in fact they are very much pro EU (with Kaczyński supporting a EU having its own Armed Forces), only unlike Civic Platform they don't want to be Merkel's footstools.

They are very much "big government" and "tax and spend" statist, they just play to "traditional values" narrative as result of evolution of our political scene, as other niches got filled already.

Duda is struggling to get re-elected, but he's also completely dishonest about this.

He and the Law and Justice did completely nothing worthwhile to stem the gender ideology thing while in power, indeed their Minister of Education, Gowin, stated he'd never permit LGBT's freedom of speech in academia be ever infringed upon, and now Duda woke (if you pardon the pun) up seeing his opponent from the Civic Platform (main opposition party) deepthroat the "LGBT rights" very hard. So to rally votes he needs to pretend to be opposed to the above, as there's no way in hell "progressive" electorate would ever vote for him, but he could sway centrist and conservative votes. Worst outcome for him if the latter stays at home come elections day...

Edit: Regarding the OP subject, I will actually agree with Duda insofar that much like communism LGBT rights movement* is a culturally foreign construct, that much like communism it is being forcibly imposed on us, much like communism by foreign interests, (generally) against our will, and much like communism with some local collaborators stemming from the same circles even - internationalists, leftwingers ect. all of which are hoping that going with the flow would grant them power.

*Fun fact, homosexuality was never actually a crime here, we've never had our Oscar Wilde nor Alan Turing put on trial, nor were homosexuals discriminated against for being homosexual (which of course doesn't preclude someone gay getting in hot water over something else...).
We didn't have an uptight Victorian period, nor prudish and repressed protestant sexual morality that LGBT activism could rebel against, so the whole thing here is basically a solution in search of a problem.