peter Zeihan 2020

Says the person who is spouting the standard neo-lib/neo-con bull about how America has to keep paying for a global order.
When history has shown that foreign wars have a disturbing tendency to somehow come to the US? The price we pay to ensure world peace is far less than ensuring that we go full Strangereal and have wars every five years. If world trade becomes non-viable, then we as a species will lose because the only way to get it enforced again at this point is world conquest and putting everyone under one banner through force.
 
Nope, the rich and corporations have the most income and thus should have the most taxes. Then again, you sound like the very sort of people that got us into this mess.

Even when lowering the tax rate tends to bring in more revenue from the wealthy? Even when these progressive tax rates tend to hurt small and medium sized businesses by accident (because the left can't economy to save their lives) whilst the big business you hate so much can afford to move their money overseas to escape this ridiculous situation? Even when lowering the corporation tax and bonfiring the regulations seems to have worked wonders in Trump's America?

Also, fuck you, they made that money fair and square and should be able to keep as much as possible. Forgive me, but the idea of my countrymen being penalised for being successful doesn't quite sit well with me (I have a relative who is subject to these preposterous laws). It is this sort of mindless moral purity that has led us to our current woes.

And I'm not done. So these megacorps and big business you hate so much? You created them. The attempts of the Left to legislate away society's problems seventy years back wound up demolishing smaller businesses and annihilating possible competition for these larger businesses that could take the economic hit and monopolize the market. Again, lefties can't economy, so please stop trying.
 
When history has shown that foreign wars have a disturbing tendency to somehow come to the US? The price we pay to ensure world peace is far less than ensuring that we go full Strangereal and have wars every five years. If world trade becomes non-viable, then we as a species will lose because the only way to get it enforced again at this point is world conquest and putting everyone under one banner through force.
If you haven't noticed the current system fueled our likely enemies but they aren't able to maintain themselves yet.
The Chinese aren't capable yet of fighting all their neighbors and without oil their power collapses
The middle east will revert to killing eac other removing them from the board.
As for Europe and Russia demographically they are collapsing, and cant threaten us now much less in the future. What's left, we aren't leaving the Americas so that isn't a problem, and Africa is too poor to threaten us, and their continent is the likely war zone.
We also already have deals with Britain. and Japan.
Who is left to be your bugbear?
 
If you haven't noticed the current system fueled our likely enemies but they aren't able to maintain themselves yet.
The Chinese aren't capable yet of fighting all their neighbors and without oil their power collapses
The middle east will revert to killing eac other removing them from the board.
As for Europe and Russia demographically they are collapsing, and cant threaten us now much less in the future. What's left, we aren't leaving the Americas so that isn't a problem, and Africa is too poor to threaten us, and their continent is the likely war zone.
We also already have deals with Britain. and Japan.
Who is left to be your bugbear?
Everyone who needs resources or a grudge. Period.
Even when lowering the tax rate tends to bring in more revenue from the wealthy? Even when these progressive tax rates tend to hurt small and medium sized businesses by accident (because the left can't economy to save their lives) whilst the big business you hate so much can afford to move their money overseas to escape this ridiculous situation? Even when lowering the corporation tax and bonfiring the regulations seems to have worked wonders in Trump's America?

Also, fuck you, they made that money fair and square and should be able to keep as much as possible. Forgive me, but the idea of my countrymen being penalised for being successful doesn't quite sit well with me (I have a relative who is subject to these preposterous laws). It is this sort of mindless moral purity that has led us to our current woes.

And I'm not done. So these megacorps and big business you hate so much? You created them. The attempts of the Left to legislate away society's problems seventy years back wound up demolishing smaller businesses and annihilating possible competition for these larger businesses that could take the economic hit and monopolize the market. Again, lefties can't economy, so please stop trying.
That is a lie that you keep perpetuating, Trump (and the GOP's) policies have only made things worse. The reason for the lower income brackets getting screwed? The rich and corporations don't pay their fair share. Regulations are absolutely fucking needed no matter what, given what happens if there aren't any (i.e. lots of deaths in the name of profit)...
 
Everyone who needs resources or a grudge. Period.
And none of them are a threat as I have already shown you, besides as you said they will be busy killing each other, all we have to do is watch, and make things worse for them, remember even if some faction somehow tries to unify the world, it would take years to rebuild while we are completely unharmed and can move first.
 
Nope, the rich and corporations have the most income and thus should have the most taxes. Then again, you sound like the very sort of people that got us into this mess.

Yes, wealthier people should pay the most taxes. But at the same rate as everyone else.

The top 40% of income earners are already statistically the only people who net pay into the government. (Note, this is average, not counting outliers such as myself, who is in the low end of the second 20% and still net pays in.)

Here, it's all of ten minutes long:


This isn't as high quality as the link I used to have, that's now dead, and is missing a couple details, like saying top 40% instead of top 20%.

Also, and to pre-empt the argument, before the WuFlu hit, wage growth in the US since Trump was elected affected lower incomes at a higher proportion than the higher incomes, so the fact that the video quotes 2014 data does not make it invalid.


So no. The idea that rich people aren't paying enough, the idea that the wealth divide is crushing poorer families, it's propaganda and nonsense. Yes, there are some people who've had it rough. There will always be people who have had it rough. Wrecking the system that's built the most prosperous nation in the world isn't the way to try to deal with that. Making things worse for practically everyone isn't the solution. If you see somebody in particularly harsh circumstances, help them yourself.
 
That is a lie that you keep perpetuating, Trump (and the GOP's) policies have only made things worse. The reason for the lower income brackets getting screwed? The rich and corporations don't pay their fair share. Regulations are absolutely fucking needed no matter what, given what happens if there aren't any (i.e. lots of deaths in the name of profit)...
Uh-huh. Regulations only save lives. Like those Certificate of Need regulations that stop hospitals from getting built? How about the regulations that hairdressers have a 1000 hours of training before being allowed to cut hair? There are countless regulations that are needless and only serve to benefit large corporations. Getting rid of almost all of them will have a positive impact, but meanwhile all regulations are sold to the public as generic good things.
 
Uh-huh. Regulations only save lives. Like those Certificate of Need regulations that stop hospitals from getting built? How about the regulations that hairdressers have a 1000 hours of training before being allowed to cut hair? There are countless regulations that are needless and only serve to benefit large corporations. Getting rid of almost all of them will have a positive impact, but meanwhile all regulations are sold to the public as generic good things.
Friedman put it best .

 
Uh-huh. Regulations only save lives. Like those Certificate of Need regulations that stop hospitals from getting built? How about the regulations that hairdressers have a 1000 hours of training before being allowed to cut hair? There are countless regulations that are needless and only serve to benefit large corporations. Getting rid of almost all of them will have a positive impact, but meanwhile all regulations are sold to the public as generic good things.

Pretty much this. Less government is best government. If only our heavily influenced by leftism elites could put their micromanaging boner away for just a moment. I'm convinced half our societal woes would disappear if we could just scrap some regulations and allow the market to compete.

Friedman put it best .



And there it is. That's why the West is in such a mess these days. Well meaning radicals fucking everything up and leaving all the tools in place for opportunists to fuck things up some more. Could the Left actually just jump off a cliff and not bother civilisation again for a thousand years or so?
 
Uh-huh. Regulations only save lives. Like those Certificate of Need regulations that stop hospitals from getting built? How about the regulations that hairdressers have a 1000 hours of training before being allowed to cut hair? There are countless regulations that are needless and only serve to benefit large corporations. Getting rid of almost all of them will have a positive impact, but meanwhile all regulations are sold to the public as generic good things.
I'd argue that regulations can saves lives, but as with most things that involve people at any stage, they are often misused or misapplied. We only really need a fraction of the rules and regulations that are currently on the books, while the rest serve only to benefit large corporations or specific political interest groups, not the people at large. Compound that with the fact that as time passes and the situation on the ground changes, even regulations that did once serve the public good can later be found to be obsolete; though heaven help you if you try to either update or retire them, because the government certainly won't.

Thing is, what needs to be fixed before we can even tackle anything, is the corruption that has infested our government. Otherwise, we'll just be wasting our time spinning our wheels, while accomplishing nothing of substance.



Yes, wealthier people should pay the most taxes. But at the same rate as everyone else.

The top 40% of income earners are already statistically the only people who net pay into the government. (Note, this is average, not counting outliers such as myself, who is in the low end of the second 20% and still net pays in.)

Here, it's all of ten minutes long:


This isn't as high quality as the link I used to have, that's now dead, and is missing a couple details, like saying top 40% instead of top 20%.

Also, and to pre-empt the argument, before the WuFlu hit, wage growth in the US since Trump was elected affected lower incomes at a higher proportion than the higher incomes, so the fact that the video quotes 2014 data does not make it invalid.


So no. The idea that rich people aren't paying enough, the idea that the wealth divide is crushing poorer families, it's propaganda and nonsense. Yes, there are some people who've had it rough. There will always be people who have had it rough. Wrecking the system that's built the most prosperous nation in the world isn't the way to try to deal with that. Making things worse for practically everyone isn't the solution. If you see somebody in particularly harsh circumstances, help them yourself.

The only issue I have with what the wealthy are paying in taxes, is all the exclusive loopholes they can access in order to avoid paying them, due to the large amounts of money involved. Things like accepting wages in the form of stocks instead of hard currency, companies "reinvesting" in themselves via "business expenses", creating shell companies, or moving their money into offshore tax havens.

super-rich-avoid-paying-taxes.jpg
In other words, if they actually paid 29% in taxes, as cited by Dr. Antony Davies, I'd have no problems with that amount; but many of them don't.
 
I'd argue that regulations can saves lives, but as with most things that involve people at any stage, they are often misused or misapplied. We only really need a fraction of the rules and regulations that are currently on the books, while the rest serve only to benefit large corporations or specific political interest groups, not the people at large. Compound that with the fact that as time passes and the situation on the ground changes, even regulations that did once serve the public good can later be found to be obsolete; though heaven help you if you try to either update or retire them, because the government certainly won't.

Thing is, what needs to be fixed before we can even tackle anything, is the corruption that has infested our government. Otherwise, we'll just be wasting our time spinning our wheels, while accomplishing nothing of substance.




The only issue I have with what the wealthy are paying in taxes, is all the exclusive loopholes they can access in order to avoid paying them, due to the large amounts of money involved. Things like accepting wages in the form of stocks instead of hard currency, companies "reinvesting" in themselves via "business expenses", creating shell companies, or moving their money into offshore tax havens.

super-rich-avoid-paying-taxes.jpg
In other words, if they actually paid 29% in taxes, as cited by Dr. Antony Davies, I'd have no problems with that amount; but many of them don't.

Most of those benefits are exaggerations, or out of date.
1. buying preferred stock can help, but just like regular stock if the company folds, that’s it. Besides anyone can do that preferred stock is publicly traded.
2. for Americans storing money overseas anymore isn’t really feasible, fatca puts such extreme regulations on Americans having overseas accounts that most banks will not do business with Americans.
3. multiple homes aren’t really that extreme either, many people can do that, besides notice what it says if it is two weeks you don’t need to report it as rent, that is not going to cover the maintenance and property taxes.
4. When you are paid in stock it is treated as compensation for taxes, the question is when do you report it, it has to be at fair value, aka market price at one point, you can be lucky if you are right in your pick of when to recognize it or you can be unlucky, and be taxed on more than you get.
 
Thing is, what needs to be fixed before we can even tackle anything, is the corruption that has infested our government. Otherwise, we'll just be wasting our time spinning our wheels, while accomplishing nothing of substance.
Corruption is endemic to governments. I don't think this is fixable, and human history would back me up. If there is a way to make money (or get power) by cheating the system, people will do it. It turns out that to get a government to not be corrupt, you need to attack the incentive structure, not the offenders.
 
Corruption is endemic to governments. I don't think this is fixable, and human history would back me up. If there is a way to make money (or get power) by cheating the system, people will do it. It turns out that to get a government to not be corrupt, you need to attack the incentive structure, not the offenders.

Ha, reminds me of this comment I just got on reddit

"You say this as if climate change, and our contribution to it, is not an issue. If power generation was run by the state, for the people instead of profit, then there would be greater incentive to switch to cleaner and more sustainable sources of power."

Incentive? Nah, just go beat the shit out of the offenders and tell them they're evil and that we'll handle it because we're fucking saints and geniuses

Actually, better yet, redefine 'incentive"

If you don't do as I say, you're arrested or banned from business and aren't free to do business. There's your incentive
 
I'd argue that regulations can saves lives, but as with most things that involve people at any stage, they are often misused or misapplied. We only really need a fraction of the rules and regulations that are currently on the books, while the rest serve only to benefit large corporations or specific political interest groups, not the people at large. Compound that with the fact that as time passes and the situation on the ground changes, even regulations that did once serve the public good can later be found to be obsolete; though heaven help you if you try to either update or retire them, because the government certainly won't.

Thing is, what needs to be fixed before we can even tackle anything, is the corruption that has infested our government. Otherwise, we'll just be wasting our time spinning our wheels, while accomplishing nothing of substance.




The only issue I have with what the wealthy are paying in taxes, is all the exclusive loopholes they can access in order to avoid paying them, due to the large amounts of money involved. Things like accepting wages in the form of stocks instead of hard currency, companies "reinvesting" in themselves via "business expenses", creating shell companies, or moving their money into offshore tax havens.

super-rich-avoid-paying-taxes.jpg
In other words, if they actually paid 29% in taxes, as cited by Dr. Antony Davies, I'd have no problems with that amount; but many of them don't.
The thing is, the more regulation you have, and the larger the government, the easier it is to avoid taxes through these loopholes. If the tax law was a flat "10% of the gross no matter what" it would be nigh-impossible to wriggle through and avoid paying 10% of the gross. But when the regulations take up six feet of shelf space there's so much complexity and so much wriggle room to find loopholes it's inevitable that companies will find a way through... but only the largest and most powerful companies that can afford a tax lawyer on hand 24/7 to take advantage, the middle class are hosed.

Not that I'm arguing for a 10% of the gross tax mind you, that's too simple and a case of too much of a good thing turning bad.

In a similar vein more regulation can freeze out small businesses and entrepreneurs because the law is too complex and dangerous for anybody who isn't able to afford a top lawyer to navigate. Suppose Jose wants to start his own hot dog cart. Easy, you can get one of those for maybe $750 if you shop around and add in 500 more for supplies and you're ready to go. Jose could have his own business fairly easily if the laws are simple and he can read through all of them in a couple of days while checking the best prices. But if the laws regulation Hot Dog Carts are 200,000 pages long, with an additional 100,000 pages regulation the Hot Dogs themselves and then 50,000 pages on buns, Jose hasn't a prayer in hell of getting his cart off the ground, the only people who can own a hot dog cart are the super wealthy who can, again, hire sophisticated lawyers that tell them where the loopholes are.

I know because I was in that exact position, wanting to start my own business selling hot dogs when I was younger, and had to face the fact that I could get a cart and starting supplies for about 1/30th the cost of licensing, inspections, and lawyers to do the paperwork because there were so many regulations about hotdog carts.
 
Most of those benefits are exaggerations, or out of date.
1. buying preferred stock can help, but just like regular stock if the company folds, that’s it. Besides anyone can do that preferred stock is publicly traded.
2. for Americans storing money overseas anymore isn’t really feasible, fatca puts such extreme regulations on Americans having overseas accounts that most banks will not do business with Americans.
3. multiple homes aren’t really that extreme either, many people can do that, besides notice what it says if it is two weeks you don’t need to report it as rent, that is not going to cover the maintenance and property taxes.
4. When you are paid in stock it is treated as compensation for taxes, the question is when do you report it, it has to be at fair value, aka market price at one point, you can be lucky if you are right in your pick of when to recognize it or you can be unlucky, and be taxed on more than you get.
That's good to hear, but there's still some loopholes that need closing.



Corruption is endemic to governments. I don't think this is fixable, and human history would back me up. If there is a way to make money (or get power) by cheating the system, people will do it. It turns out that to get a government to not be corrupt, you need to attack the incentive structure, not the offenders.
You're not wrong. But in order to attack the incentive structure, you need to get corruption out of the government; it's basically a Catch-22.



The thing is, the more regulation you have, and the larger the government, the easier it is to avoid taxes through these loopholes. If the tax law was a flat "10% of the gross no matter what" it would be nigh-impossible to wriggle through and avoid paying 10% of the gross. But when the regulations take up six feet of shelf space there's so much complexity and so much wriggle room to find loopholes it's inevitable that companies will find a way through... but only the largest and most powerful companies that can afford a tax lawyer on hand 24/7 to take advantage, the middle class are hosed.

Not that I'm arguing for a 10% of the gross tax mind you, that's too simple and a case of too much of a good thing turning bad.

In a similar vein more regulation can freeze out small businesses and entrepreneurs because the law is too complex and dangerous for anybody who isn't able to afford a top lawyer to navigate. Suppose Jose wants to start his own hot dog cart. Easy, you can get one of those for maybe $750 if you shop around and add in 500 more for supplies and you're ready to go. Jose could have his own business fairly easily if the laws are simple and he can read through all of them in a couple of days while checking the best prices. But if the laws regulation Hot Dog Carts are 200,000 pages long, with an additional 100,000 pages regulation the Hot Dogs themselves and then 50,000 pages on buns, Jose hasn't a prayer in hell of getting his cart off the ground, the only people who can own a hot dog cart are the super wealthy who can, again, hire sophisticated lawyers that tell them where the loopholes are.

I know because I was in that exact position, wanting to start my own business selling hot dogs when I was younger, and had to face the fact that I could get a cart and starting supplies for about 1/30th the cost of licensing, inspections, and lawyers to do the paperwork because there were so many regulations about hotdog carts.
As I said; the majority of regulatory laws on the books are not meant to protect the average citizen, but rather to advantage larger corporations and political interest groups; and if I were in some magical world where I got to make all the decisions, "Keep It Simple, Stupid" would be the principle under which I would reform the whole system.

People tend to assume that those of us who are against the idea of an anarchistic free market are in favor of all regulations on the books, when nothing could be further from the truth. What I'm in favor of, is regulations that actually benefit the regular citizen; things like actually paying your employees the money you promised them, and not using "recycled" sewage as a substitute for cooking oil.
 
no no no, the real answer is the US is wrong no matter what, if we are involved we are evil imperialist bullies, and when we leave we are cruel monsters leaving the rest of the world to suffer.
If thats the case, then why not just say ok, I'm evil and just leave. At least that evil has it that you are not wasting lives and money.

Naw he's not a SJW he's got some weird ideas but they aren't "intersectional".
Leftists until they started become warmongers have always been on the US is evil for interfering and not interfering. Don't have to be SJW for that.
 
That's good to hear, but there's still some loopholes that need closing.
Snip
People tend to assume that those of us who are against the idea of an anarchistic free market are in favor of all regulations on the books, when nothing could be further from the truth. What I'm in favor of, is regulations that actually benefit the regular citizen; things like actually paying your employees the money you promised them, and not using "recycled" sewage as a substitute for cooking oil.
It's actually that, but rather people in favor of "regulations that actually benefit the regular citizen" are much like those that are in favor of "common sense gun control." Said regulations have proven to hurt the regular citizen and boost megacorps again and again because the more regulations you add, the more loopholes form from interactions of the laws, and the more corrupt lawmakers will produce protections for their donors.

I mean, if I thought you could do it I'd be standing next to you cheering. In the same boat that if I saw a socialist I thought could actually bring about their worker's utopia I'd be cheering them on too. Unfortunately I've seen that neither option actually works.
 
It's actually that, but rather people in favor of "regulations that actually benefit the regular citizen" are much like those that are in favor of "common sense gun control." Said regulations have proven to hurt the regular citizen and boost megacorps again and again because the more regulations you add, the more loopholes form from interactions of the laws, and the more corrupt lawmakers will produce protections for their donors.

I mean, if I thought you could do it I'd be standing next to you cheering. In the same boat that if I saw a socialist I thought could actually bring about their worker's utopia I'd be cheering them on too. Unfortunately I've seen that neither option actually works.

You know, ONE regulation, I see plenty of people agreeing on is food-health-safety control

Especially in-relation to China's surprisingly unregulated "wet market" which is in a Socialist Nation but allowed so much leeway in people buying and selling something that was already a possible health hazard years before
 
Well yeah, people are generally against dying/being seriously ill because they ate something that wasn't safe.

Exotic Foods though, look to be something that don’t cost huge amounts of money to properly make, last I went to China and ate at one stall....well they probably have “farms” of a sort but that cockroach “farm” I saw on the net once didn’t exactly look mega clean to me
 

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