Well, you do have the option of where to work and what to do. The reason I referred to serfs as slaves was they were not allowed to leave the village.
peter Zeihan 2020
- Thread starter Cherico
- Start date
Floridaman
Well-known member
what is the fundamental difference between the large space called a nation, and the small space called a village. Make no mistake I was being somewhat melodramatic, but unless you get approval you are no freer to leave than the serf was, it is just easier for most people to pay for the ability to leave should they choose.
edit for clarification: Passport Fees
without that you are no freer to leave the country, than the serf is the manor.
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You are right about the size not mattering. North Korea is just as bad as serfdom in that respect. But most countries are not, as you are free to leave countries, just not enter other ones without permission. This doesn't matter too much on a practical level, but on a moral level it really does. It tells who is restricting you. In the case of the peasant farmer and the east German, it was their country keeping them in. On top of that, there is freedom to enter if fleeing oppression, and request asylum.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
I think guys equating fascism with feudalism and empires, sorta more-or-less say it's NOT a modern phenomemon
Trade existed before alongside the concept of investing in stuff
If someone can get rich off trade that means he benefitted off capitalism
If someone got rich off the Slave Trade, then it's Capitalism's fault that slavery is a thing
Floridaman
Well-known member
while that is true, to be precise you are not legally allowed to leave without a passport, which you have to pay for. Customs probably won’t arrest you, but then the lord wasn’t likely to look for a serf either, in fact that was how many free cities got more people.
”Except as otherwise provided by the President and subject to such limitations and exceptions as the President may authorize and prescribe, it shall be unlawful for any citizen of the United States to depart from or enter, or attempt to depart from or enter, the United States unless he bears a valid United States passport.”
8 U.S. Code § 1185 - Travel control of citizens and aliens
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
If a nation practices slavery, by definition, it is not practicing free markets, because the slave is engaging in 'compelled trade,' IE his services for just enough to keep living and providing those services.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
Never saw that argument before
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The reason 'Free' is within 'Free Markets' as a term, is because of the lack of coercion. When everyone is allowed to trade their goods and services voluntarily, at a price agreed upon by both buyer and seller without coercion, you have a 'free market.'
That's the whole point.
Not only is this the only truly ethical economic system, it's also by far the most effective.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
What about Indentured Servitude? Or Debt-Based Work? Is that voluntary?
I think there was a problem long before in that people were considered practically property/things, even more if they weren't of a certain melanin level or were of an enemy nation or their family sold em off to the slave market to cover debts
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
There is arguably an exception for cases of extreme debt, where someone is refusing to pay off debt they have accrued, but that's a fringe case.
There's an entire moral and cultural system you need to support healthy free markets. It's generally known as 'Christianity,' though some other sets of cultural values can do a decent job of it too.
CarlManvers2019
Writers Blocked Douchebag
What stops those who benefit from the Free Market fulfilling Left Wing nightmares of capitalist dystopias wherein because they’re not taxed, unionized & regulated to hell
They can do whatever they want and even outcompete smaller and younger businesses and put up barriers to them
LordsFire
Internet Wizard
The reason 'Free' is within 'Free Markets' as a term, is because of the lack of coercion. When everyone is allowed to trade their goods and services voluntarily, at a price agreed upon by both buyer and seller without coercion, you have a 'free market.'
That's the whole point.
Not only is this the only truly ethical economic system, it's also by far the most effective.
Not allowing those barriers to be put up is one of the main points of Free Markets. It's part of why it goes hand-in-hand with small government, where the only government interference with the market should be anti-trust laws.
And, you know, laws against theft, murder, blackmail, the usual.
PETER ZEIHAN
This is written by him
zeihan.com
Coronavirus has launched the greatest energy upheaval since the dawn of the petroleum age. In the short run, this means rock-bottom – even negative – prices for oil and a much-needed price break for the world’s major energy consumers.
But nothing lasts forever.
Extended periods of low prices will destroy the productive capacity of many oil exporters, removing them from the market for years. Once the coronavirus crisis passes, that changed map of oil production and export will radically remake global energy flows. By far the largest loser will be China.
China today, as the world’s largest oil importer, sources crude from quite literally everywhere it can. This map – from my new book, Disunited Nations – shows the diversity of sources and the risks to its oil supply chains posed by other countries.Many of these producers will not be in the market a year from now. Their absence will add an energy security layer to China’s already irrecoverable debt, finance, demographic, consumption, security, political, supply chain and trade problems.
This is written by him
China's Energy Gauntlet and the Future of Oil - Zeihan on Geopolitics
Coronavirus has launched the greatest energy upheaval since the dawn of the petroleum age. In the short run, this means rock-bottom – even negative – prices for oil and a much-needed price break for the world’s major energy consumers. But nothing lasts forever. Extended periods of low prices...
zeihan.com
Coronavirus has launched the greatest energy upheaval since the dawn of the petroleum age. In the short run, this means rock-bottom – even negative – prices for oil and a much-needed price break for the world’s major energy consumers.
But nothing lasts forever.
Extended periods of low prices will destroy the productive capacity of many oil exporters, removing them from the market for years. Once the coronavirus crisis passes, that changed map of oil production and export will radically remake global energy flows. By far the largest loser will be China.
China today, as the world’s largest oil importer, sources crude from quite literally everywhere it can. This map – from my new book, Disunited Nations – shows the diversity of sources and the risks to its oil supply chains posed by other countries.Many of these producers will not be in the market a year from now. Their absence will add an energy security layer to China’s already irrecoverable debt, finance, demographic, consumption, security, political, supply chain and trade problems.
MrBirthday
Agent of Catgirl Genocide
Well, there's certainly been more stuff from Zeihan since the last piece Cherico linked, here's the latest:
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Lanmandragon
Well-known member
I can tell Trump to go to hell to his face and not die. A Russian serf couldn't do the same to the Czar. Seems like a pretty big difference to me.
Honestly, the most surprising thing in that podcast was that some politicians are actually well educated on cryptocurrency.
Why? It is a much better way for them to launder money, buy their drugs, accept bribes, and generally avoid scrutiny.
Lets say you do cocaine. It costs you thirty thousand per kilo. Pulling 30k in cash out of your bank account tends to raise flags and if you ever get investigated it is liable to show up. Similarly, getting bribed in cash means it has to get into the banking system or be used as cash.
Now lets say you get bribed in BitCoin and buy your coke in BitCoin. Unless you are a total and complete idiot, that is never going to show up in an investigation (at least short of a serious counter intel investigation).
As for Putin, remember that he is former KGB and has spent his entire adult life deeply involved in covert operations. Of course he is going to be conversant in cryptocurrency.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Crypto currency looks like what third world countries can take advantage of if they know how to use it.
From Wion India has been taking advantage of rock bottom oil prices, stockpiling them.PETER ZEIHAN
This is written by him
China's Energy Gauntlet and the Future of Oil - Zeihan on Geopolitics
Coronavirus has launched the greatest energy upheaval since the dawn of the petroleum age. In the short run, this means rock-bottom – even negative – prices for oil and a much-needed price break for the world’s major energy consumers. But nothing lasts forever. Extended periods of low prices...
Coronavirus has launched the greatest energy upheaval since the dawn of the petroleum age. In the short run, this means rock-bottom – even negative – prices for oil and a much-needed price break for the world’s major energy consumers.
But nothing lasts forever.
Extended periods of low prices will destroy the productive capacity of many oil exporters, removing them from the market for years. Once the coronavirus crisis passes, that changed map of oil production and export will radically remake global energy flows. By far the largest loser will be China.
China today, as the world’s largest oil importer, sources crude from quite literally everywhere it can. This map – from my new book, Disunited Nations – shows the diversity of sources and the risks to its oil supply chains posed by other countries.Many of these producers will not be in the market a year from now. Their absence will add an energy security layer to China’s already irrecoverable debt, finance, demographic, consumption, security, political, supply chain and trade problems.