then I don't think you should be locked away
Culture Pedophilia a Legitimate Thought Crime?
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bintananth
behind a desk
This is where I think you're getting into wanting to punish thoughts instead of actions. It's OK to want something inappropriate. It is most definitely NOT OK to actually go out and get the inappropriate thing you desire.
I view things like sexual attraction to be deeper than mere thoughts. Being gay or straight isn't just a thought. That's why things like gay conversation therapy don't work and are cruel. I'm not sure it's something that can be changed.
Being pedo? I take back that they should be killed if they never acted on it, but they need to be kept away from children at all costs. And that may mean permanent residence in an institution. We don't need to mistreat them in there. But keep them out of society. It might not be their fault, and it might not seem fair. Maybe that seems extreme, but they are not safe to have around in society. It's more important to protect the children than to protect them.
bintananth
behind a desk
You do not get to pick who you are attracted to. You either are or you aren't and something as stupid as eye colour can take someone from "yes, please" all the way to "eww, yuck, no thank you".
When said attraction is inappropriate what you do is entirely up to you.
Organizations that don't protect their children get out lasted by ones that do.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
By that logic, you should be locked up as well, considering you just expressed a desire to kill people you found reprehensible; not necessarily because of anything they did, but because of the thoughts inside their heads. You later took it back of course, but can I really be expected to believe that you won't change your mind again later, or switch targets? Maybe you'll decided I need to die for the good of society, for one reason or another, and further that you'll take steps to ensure that I do.
Terthna
Professional Lurker
Of course we can; but can we also all agree that punishing people solely for the thoughts inside their heads is equally as bad? Because if not, I don't think there's any common ground to be had here; at least not from my perspective.
I kinda just get really mad about it and make sweeping statements without thinking it through.
I have some personal experience with it (I'm not the victim but I know one closely,) and my emotions tend to take over.
Touchy subject.
bintananth
behind a desk
No one here is arguing that sex with children is acceptable.
We might have an argument about what the exact age of consent should be. That's mostly going to come down to "how old is old enough" and "Romeo and Juliet" laws to handle things like a HS freshman dating a HS senior.
Large_Farva
Liter-a cola
You're not going to find anyone outside of actual pedophiles arguing that sex with prepubescent children should be ok. The USA Today article didn't suggest that it should be, despite the fact that certain people have 'congenital condition' inextricably linked with 'this should be fine' in their heads. Hey, know what else has genetic roots? Psychopathy. Know who has said that psychopaths should be given a pass on crimes they commit? Nobody. But with pedophilia, a lot of people have the attitude that anything other than saying that they should be hanged (or indulging in torture fantasies for a frankly disturbing number of folks) is promotion.
I don't think you're wrong with this statement. The sex drive is one of the human animal's stronger, more basic impulses. It's pretty much at the heart of why pedophilia is a subject that merits a lot of study. The reason to study anything is to understand it, and the reason why you'd want to understand a problem is to find a solution. (Feel free to skip the "I've got your solution right here" with a picture of a gun.) Currently, there is no solution to pedophilia - people who suffer from it (and I have to imagine that it's a burden for them, since they've got sex-drive level desires that every piece of society around them is telling them is wrong enough that a single action warrants basically full destruction of their life) pretty much have no option apart from trying to ignore it.
Given how many people are the victims of child molestation, we can see how that's working out. So, it makes sense to figure out why people are the way they are, and that's going to require people coming in to be studied. Which, in turn, will require people feeling like they can admit to someone in a clinical setting that they're sexually attracted to children. So yeah, it means that there will need to be some degree of normalization of it in a laboratory setting.
Now, what this isn't doing is suggesting that it be something that should be accepted in public. No one thinks that pedophiles should be teachers or social workers or babysitters or be anything but barred from positions where they'd gain unsupervised access to children. People have kids, they don't want those kids to be molested (I mean, apart from the pedophiles who want to molest their own kids).
This is the same as wanting to see all people that that won't get vaxxed killed.
Those people are obviously a threat to everyone around them since they won't get the jab.
All of them be executed whether they decided to wear a mask or not. Firing squad it is.
They're unsafe to have in civil society.
ShieldWife
Marchioness
Thought crimes are one of the most totalitarian things I can imagine. How is it even right or just to punish people for having bad thoughts? Don’t we all have bad thoughts?
Do we really want our enemies, who let’s face it run the country, to have the power to put people to death not even for what we do but what we think?
No, absolutely not, not even in the name of fighting child molestation.
Do we really want our enemies, who let’s face it run the country, to have the power to put people to death not even for what we do but what we think?
No, absolutely not, not even in the name of fighting child molestation.
I completely approve of your logic here, but I want to take it one step further: I think that people with pedophilic inclinations who act on their urges in completely harmless ways, such as with child sex dolls, child sex robots, and cartoon/animated child porn, should be allowed to do this without getting shunned, ostracized, penalized, arrested, fired, or punished in any way. I do think that James Cantor (who, BTW, is gay himself, IIRC) has a good particular point: People have argued in favor of allowing people to have gay sex because gay people are wired that way and because gay sex doesn't actually harm anyone. But the same thing could be true for people with pedophilic inclinations and for things such as child sex dolls: People with pedophilic inclinations are likewise born that way and them having sex with a child sex doll or a child sex robot or pleasuring themselves to cartoon/animated child porn are likewise not harming anyone else. So, what exactly is the meaningful distinction here? You could say that gay sex is not a simulation of a forbidden act but that having sex with a child sex doll is, but by that logic, any harmless simulation of a forbidden act should be illegal and prohibited: Rape fantasy roleplaying between consenting adults, pedophilia fantasy roleplaying between consenting adults, et cetera--and frankly, I strongly doubt that many people would actually be willing to embrace this conclusion!
And Yeah, if it's extraordinarily cruel to compel gay people to get castrated, then it's likewise extraordinarily cruel to compel people with pedophilic inclinations to get castrated if they are actually permanently satisfied with harm-free outlets to express their sex drive, such as child sex dolls. Those who are NOT permanently satisfied with such harmless outlets and instead want the real thing (child rape and/or REAL child porn) should indeed get castrated, of course. Castrated and possibly encouraged to get themselves voluntarily institutionalized as well, for that matter.
Maybe we should give similar treatment to people who are into rape fantasy roleplaying, eh? 'Coz, you know, what if they could end up becoming rapists in the future?
I just... I... I'm not sure Cringe is sufficient to cover this. USA Today is carrying water for pedophiles now.
The complicated research behind pedophilia
Scientists who study the disorder say there is a growing consensus that pedophilia is determined in the womb.www.usatoday.com
USA Today actually did a lengthy Twitter thread trying to explain and normalize pedophilia but when they realized people weren't buying it, they deleted the entire thread. Fortunately some people saved pics.
Their self-professed expert is James Cantor, who is on record as saying that the LGBTQ+ community needs to have a P for pedophilia added to it, anything less is a betrayal of Gay principles, and he has a close association with people like Todd "Those who criticize pedophilia are the real monsters" Nickerson.
Please see my response to @Husky_Khan here. A pedophile who never harms anyone and who is permanently capable of being satisfied with harm-free outlets such as child sex dolls should indeed NOT be shunned, fired, arrested, or penalized in any way. In fact, I'd go further and say that attempts to criminalize child sex dolls should be given extraordinarily high scrutiny and presumed to be an invalid restriction on liberty unless the government is actually able to conclusively prove that it has a compelling state interest in doing this:
Should we criminalise robotic rape and robotic child sexual abuse? Maybe | Practical Ethics
Guest Post by John Danaher (@JohnDanaher) This article is being cross-posted at Philosophical Disquisitions I recently published an unusual article. At least, I think it is unusual. It imagines a future in which sophisticated sex robots are used to replicate acts of rape and child sexual abuse...
blog.practicalethics.ox.ac.uk
"Nikolas Schaffer says:
December 28, 2014 at 1:27 pm
Haven’t read the paper, just this article, but there seems to be an important question entirely overlooked. At the moment, it is perfectly legal for two or more consenting adult partners to undertake sexual intercourse as an act of simulated rape or simulated child abuse. Why should it be legal for couples (or entire dungeons of consenting adults) to explore such fantasies, but not legal for a lone masturbator, playing with a sex toy? It doesn’t seem to make an awful lot of sense, unless you’re proposing that consenting adult partners should also be forbidden from engaging in role-playing of this kind."
Obviously actual child rape (which, of course, includes ALL cases of adults having sex with minors who are not very close in age to them--an 18-year-old and a 17-year-old, for instance) and actual child porn should indeed be and remain illegal, but not child sex dolls, child sex robots, cartoon/animated child porn, self-identifying as a pedophile, or having any pedophilic inclinations (as in, getting turned on when you see a child in short shorts or in a bikini or whatever; but if you're into seeing children naked, then the authorities might need to get involved here).
KilroywasNOTHere
"BEEP!"
for all those who are wanting purity test and wanting to judge people based on those dreaded thought crimes. take it from someone with experance on both ends. You're asking to get baited. There is something gleeful watching you torture yourself in your own paranioa. it's part of the reason why the Goldust gimmick in the wwe was so great.
Edit: to clarify what I mean is ask someone a question like "Are you gay?" and depending on how much of a jerk you are about it, you'll get a response like "Wouldn't you like to know."
Edit: to clarify what I mean is ask someone a question like "Are you gay?" and depending on how much of a jerk you are about it, you'll get a response like "Wouldn't you like to know."
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So you have a huge problem here. It's one of normalization. If it's OK to enact the fantasy, you are normalizing that activity within the mind of the pedophile. From there it's just a single step to Lolita.
So no. This is not harmless or acceptable.
So, we should likewise make rape fantasy roleplaying and pedophilia fantasy roleplaying between consenting adults illegal?