Most Evil Red Germany Possible, Post-WW1

[Zyobot]

Despite being massively overshadowed by the Nazis, the German communists who rose to prominence in the aftermath of the Great War were still a notorious bunch, known for inciting violent revolution and seeking to tear down the already-fragile Weimar Republic. If their thuggish behavior in OTL is an indication, then I doubt a Germany in which they came out on top would be a very pleasant place.

Still, barring some crazy fluke that puts a cabal of Hitler-like monsters in charge, it'd take a lot to make them match the Third Reich in the Depravity Department. That in mind, what's the most evil possible Red Germany that could emerge after World War One ends? One interesting, less ASB-ish suggestion I've seen proposes a Red Germany that basically subscribes to a form of "Germanized Stalinism", complete with artificial famines and deadly labor camps to eliminate "troublesome" ethnic groups and a war of aggression against Soviet Russia down the line, in a paranoid effort to wipe out a bastion of "Jewish-perverted" communism. I've also discussed a far more unlikely (and even more extreme) scenario, in which some German Pol Pot expy who takes Marx's notion of "primitive communism" way too far seizes power and unleashes Year Zero all across Europe. Perhaps it'd be a Red Himmler who leads that charge, though I'm also curious as to whether making Hitler himself a communist and making him the "People's Fuhrer" would be enough. We can discuss different scenarios than any of the ones floated upstream, of course.

Thank you in advance,
Zyobot

 

[Navarro]

Hmm, hmm. Hitler becoming a "People's Fuhrer" is eerily plausible given that he directly participated in the attempted communist rising in Bavaria and was a pallbearer at the funeral of one of its leaders. If we hypothesize an ATL where Liebknecht and Luxemburg are able to gain the support of the Marine regiment in Berlin and thus successfully copy Lenin's coup in St. Petersburg, I can see him rising in the Party's ranks and becoming a Stalin-esque figure - he certainly had the ruthlessness and political skills for it. His ideology would be tinged with more orthodox Marxism than IRL National Socialism was, but it would certainly be just as bad.

One wonders whether in this situation he would have a genuine alliance with Stalin against the capitalist powers. Which would certainly make WW2 a lot bloodier and might even lead to communist hegemony over all Eurasia.

 

[Zyobot]

Hmm, hmm. Hitler becoming a "People's Fuhrer" is eerily plausible given that he directly participated in the attempted communist rising in Bavaria and was a pallbearer at the funeral of one of its leaders.

I don't suppose you have a reference you could direct me to on that? Not necessarily discounting it, but given how easily facts and events that don't fit the narrative of Hitler as the demonic, far-right messiah are easily memory-holed (which, to be fair, was what he ultimately became), I'm curious as to the evidence here. In any case, I've no doubt he was just fine with the violent tactics the Communists used (though he rabidly opposed the ideological end to which they used them).

I can see him rising in the Party's ranks and becoming a Stalin-esque figure - he certainly had the ruthlessness and political skills for it. His ideology would be tinged with more orthodox Marxism than IRL National Socialism was, but it would certainly be just as bad.

A bit impressionistic, but I'm now imagining Red Hitler as someone with less predefined enemies than OTL Hitler, but way more of a paranoid tendency to arbitrarily target large groups of enemies and single them out for destruction. A man much like Stalin, as you've said, but even more murderous and apocalyptic in his vision for establishing global communism than anyone short of Pol Pot. (Jews, of course, would still be the bane of his existence.)

 

[Navarro]

I don't suppose you have a reference you could direct me to on that? Not necessarily discounting it, but given how easily facts and events that don't fit the narrative of Hitler as the demonic, far-right messiah are easily memory-holed (which, to be fair, was what he ultimately became), I'm curious as to the evidence here.

According to Wiki:

Hitler's longstanding chauffeur and first leader of the Schutzstaffel (SS) Julius Schreck signed up and served as a member of the Red Army in late April 1919.[31] Balthasar Brandmayer, one of Hitler's closest wartime friends, remarked "how he at first welcomed the end of the monarchies" and the establishment of the republic in Bavaria.[31] Many Socialist officers became disillusioned by what they learned after the demise of the socialist republic.

...

Adolf Hitler himself acted as a liaison between his army battalion – he had been elected "deputy battalion representative" – and the Soviet's Department of Propaganda. Both film footage and a still photograph appear to show Hitler marching in Eisner's funeral procession. He wears both a black mourning band and a red band showing support for the Far-Left Government.

So it seems that Hitler was all-in on communism until the Bavarian rising failed.

 

[Zyobot]

So it seems that Hitler was all-in on communism until the Bavarian rising failed.

Okay, thanks. Definitely not something most history buffs acknowledge, though I'd like to investigate Ian Kershaw and his works more thoroughly when I have time.

Something else I forgot to mention is that there's at least one AH.com TL centered around a Red Hitler. Haven't read it in detail for a while, though, and given the author's (apparent) political inclinations, be wary of some ideological biases they might have.

 

[Navarro]

A bit impressionistic, but I'm now imagining Red Hitler as someone with less predefined enemies than OTL Hitler, but way more of a paranoid tendency to arbitrarily target large groups of enemies and single them out for destruction.

Certainly, yes. But I feel Red Hitler wouldn't be driven by paranoia in his purges but by a belief that certain ethnicities and countries inherently represent opposition to socialism, or can't fit in the socialist world, and hence must be destroyed to establish the socialist utopia. This idea is easily derived from Marx himself.

A man much like Stalin, as you've said, but even more murderous and apocalyptic in his vision for establishing global communism than anyone short of Pol Pot.

Yes, except that unlike Pol Pot, his destructive mass-murderous urges would largely be focussed outward, at Germany's enemies. If Hitler takes power in the manner I've outlined he's likely to maintain Liebknecht's alliance with Russia (to help the Russian Bolsheviks was the whole reason Liebknecht and Luxemburg tried their coup) and instead focus wholeheartedly on taking down the Western Powers - France, England and the US.

(Jews, of course, would still be the bane of his existence.)

I mean, Marx's works are highly anti-Semitic, so Red Hitler would easily find justification in there without really deviating from orthodox Marxism. There would be a lot less talk of "Judeo-Bolshevism" in his ravings (since in this ATL Hitler is an ally of the Bolsheviks, not an ideological competitor), for certain.

 

[ATP]

Communist germany would be attacked by France before they rebuild army,with England,Czech and maybe Poland support.
Or maybe not? France was quite rotten arleady.
If not - soviet Europe,gulags everywhere,at least 20% of population dead.
The same in Africa and most of Asia.
Only free places - Americas,Australia and Japan with Korea/maybe/
We just killed up to billion people.But - it still fall thanks to economy.And there would be still idiots claiming that it was not real communism.