LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

[Captain X]

Thats a fair argument that you didn't want the federal government involved. I've got plenty of respect for that position.

It's somewhat personal to me, as my best friend (and therefore many other friends made through them,) going back the last 12 years or so is gay.

I have some friends that way, too, and I was completely unaware that they were gay or bi until fairly recently. It made me really regret some of the things I said when I was still a conservative Christian myself, but thankfully they all forgave me for what hurt I inflicted on them.

Maybe it's a double standard from me. Maybe it's inconsistent. I don't know....but I do know that to me it is wrong to oppose them having equal rights, and that it's not hurting anyone to give them equal rights. I was in support of the move that legalized gay marriage when it happened, and I wouldn't want to go back.

It's not inconsistent if you also believe in religious freedom. I guess to me, Hastur is simply being consistent with their religious beliefs in that they may view things as a sin, but that the entire point is to choose the path one follows for themselves rather than having the government step in and basically decide for everyone. I find that laudable, even if I disagree with the viewpoint of those things being sin.

 

[absenceofmalice]

So...
You would rather us never win anything again?
Because, there are not enough people who agree on those standpoints to have us win with that alone.

If people knew how much that Homosexuality translated to disease suffering and the nightmarish abuse of children if they were just educated they would reject it at a much higher level.

 

[Captain X]

 

[absenceofmalice]

Read any good statistics lately?

 

[Zachowon]

If people knew how much that Homosexuality translated to disease suffering and the nightmarish abuse of children if they were just educated they would reject it at a much higher level.

You mean because a place like California is not making it mandatory to tell people if they have AIDs?
I mean, if straight parents abuse their gaychildren how is that the children's fault? If you mean homosexual parents?No idea

 

[absenceofmalice]

I would never support any position that discriminates against gay or bisexual people, but this does not mean I support pedophilia or any of this gender fluid crap.

I support smoking but not cancer.

I hate to break it to you "social conservatives," but the science is out there as far as the gay question - they have always been there an always will be

yeah there have always been rape victims with mental damage from being raped who are like ten or twenty times more likely to kill themselves or rape children but we should be trying to push those numbers as low as they'll go or at least not encouraging it. It's a mental illness there will always be mentally ill people there are mentally ill horses that doesn't mean no checks can be put against it or the damage it does.

You mean because a place like California is not making it mandatory to tell people if they have AIDs?
I mean, if straight parents abuse their gaychildren how is that the children's fault? If you mean homosexual parents?No idea

You know Gays are hugely overrepresented as abusers of children yah? And that the huge majority of them were raped as children? yah.

 

[Abhorsen]

You know Gays are hugely overrepresented as abusers of children yah? And that the huge majority of them were raped as children? yah.

Citation please. Because it ends up that a large number of male abusers of boys aren't gay (i.e. attracted to adult males), they're just into children generally.

 

[absenceofmalice]

Citation please. Because it ends up that a large number of male abusers of boys aren't gay (i.e. attracted to adult males), they're just into children generally.

Sorry you just said that a man having sex with a boy doesn't make him gay if he also has sex with girls?

 

[Abhorsen]

Sorry you just said that a man having sex with a boy doesn't make him gay if he also has sex with girls?

No, I'm saying there is a type of person that when interacting with adults acts straight and isn't attracted to adult males, but when interacting with kids is a pedophile, either for boys or girls (my random guess is that they don't look all that different to a pedo). Here's a source for this:

Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual preferences

Erectile responses among men who had sexually abused male children were compared with the responses of matched non-offenders. Stimulus presentations i…

www.sciencedirect.com

Note the study doesn't ask the pedo's what their preferences are, but instead measure their erection when they show porn to them, so it's not them pretending to be straight or gay.

 

[KilroywasNOTHere]

I have some friends that way, too, and I was completely unaware that they were gay or bi until fairly recently. It made me really regret some of the things I said when I was still a conservative Christian myself, but thankfully they all forgave me for what hurt I inflicted on them.


It's not inconsistent if you also believe in religious freedom. I guess to me, Hastur is simply being consistent with their religious beliefs in that they may view things as a sin, but that the entire point is to choose the path one follows for themselves rather than having the government step in and basically decide for everyone. I find that laudable, even if I disagree with the viewpoint of those things being sin.

thanks man, Honestly the book of Romans pretty much my views of homosexuality in a nutshell, but I mean if someone doesn't believe in the authority of the bible my views aren't going to be heeded anyway, and calling them a faggot or whatever insult won't really do anything but flair tempers and waste time, i've only disowned one person in my entire life and it was as much a series of things and she was the one that primarily burned the bridges.

If people knew how much that Homosexuality translated to disease suffering and the nightmarish abuse of children if they were just educated they would reject it at a much higher level.

so I mean what exacly do you propose to do with people who practice it? Good luck trying to make an attraction between two consenting adults a federal crime.

 

[FriedCFour]

So thinking about it for a bit, if you think that LGBT issues are in line with enlightenment philosophy and the conception of equality and liberty as put forward by them and the founding fathers, there really is no point in talking gay marriage because that’s further down the line from those two specific points. I’ll probably make another thread in a few days quoting philosophers and their definitions as well as going down the line of founders and what their religious and social beliefs actually were.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

You mean because a place like California is not making it mandatory to tell people if they have AIDs?

Why does this keep being brought up as if it was some outrageous thing? It was done at the recommendation of a consensus of medical professionals, because the prior law making it a felony to expose people to AIDS without telling them created a massive perverse incentive to *never be tested for AIDS*. You could expose everyone without any fear of legal consequences as long as you hadn't been tested and hence could say you didn't *know* you had it, and no one could *force* you to be tested, or even tell the truth about being tested except under oath.

 

[Captain X]

The thing that has me concerned is that there are people out there for whom spreading HIV is essentially a sexual fetish. So I would rather that intentionally spreading the disease remain a felony. Of course now the Biden administration is planning to decriminalize it entirely, IIRC. I seem to remember seeing something about that anyway.

ETA: I should also add that it really shouldn't still be tied up in LGBT++good politics like it still is, because this isn't a gay issue and shouldn't keep getting treated like one.

 

[absenceofmalice]

No, I'm saying there is a type of person that when interacting with adults acts straight and isn't attracted to adult males, but when interacting with kids is a pedophile, either for boys or girls (my random guess is that they don't look all that different to a pedo). Here's a source for this:

Sexual offenders against male children: Sexual preferences

Erectile responses among men who had sexually abused male children were compared with the responses of matched non-offenders. Stimulus presentations i…

www.sciencedirect.com

Note the study doesn't ask the pedo's what their preferences are, but instead measure their erection when they show porn to them, so it's not them pretending to be straight or gay.

What does that have to do with anything I said?

so I mean what exacly do you propose to do with people who practice it? Good luck trying to make an attraction between two consenting adults a federal crime.

Yknow a huge number of "gay" people "turn back" sooner or later huh?

 

[Abhorsen]

What does that have to do with anything I said?

It's relevant to this statement:

You know Gays are hugely overrepresented as abusers of children yah? And that the huge majority of them were raped as children? yah.

I'm saying that most of the males who abuse male children aren't gay.

Yknow a huge number of "gay" people "turn back" sooner or later huh?

This also isn't true at all. In fact the complete opposite has frequently been found.

Meanwhile, you've cited no evidence for any of your statements, despite requests.

 

[absenceofmalice]

I'm saying that most of the males who abuse male children aren't gay.

Male
Sex with Male
Not Gay

 

[ShadowArxxy]

The thing that has me concerned is that there are people out there for whom spreading HIV is essentially a sexual fetish. So I would rather that intentionally spreading the disease remain a felony.

Again, that only works if you first implement mandatory testing, which is a very, very dangerous line to cross. As is, all the criminalization does is create a massive perverse incentive to never be tested.

 

[Abhorsen]

Male
Sex with Male
Not Gay

Yes. These pedophiles are attracted to children, regardless of gender. Once the male becomes an adult, the pedophile loses attraction to the male. My theory is that they just don't care what gender they are because they look similar at a young age. This is backed up by the evidence from the studies I've posted in the thread.

In contrast, gay people are (roughly) those attracted to the male form.

 

[Captain X]

Again, that only works if you first implement mandatory testing, which is a very, very dangerous line to cross. As is, all the criminalization does is create a massive perverse incentive to never be tested.

Not really. The thing about these folks who are for sure doing it on purpose is that they tend to brag and thus out themselves.

 

[absenceofmalice]

Yes. These pedophiles are attracted to children, regardless of gender. Once the male becomes an adult, the pedophile loses attraction to the male. My theory is that they just don't care what gender they are because they look similar at a young age. This is backed up by the evidence from the studies I've posted in the thread.

In contrast, gay people are (roughly) those attracted to the male form.

If you have sex with a male, and you're a male, you're gay, even if you only have sex with one type of male or also have sex with women.