LGBT and the US Conservative Movement

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

...I couldn't say about the 1860's-1890's, but I can definitely say that in the 40's-60's that Hollywood was already a festering pit of leftism and communism.

Hollywood yes, but you still had a huge conservative presence in Hollywood at the time and centrists like Disney throwing thrit weight behind them.

And if you want to point out any kind of pop culture insitution that conservatism had a hold of from 1975-now, aside from Talk Radio, I'm all ears, because it'll be news to me.
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Well for starters most heavy metal was right wing even the weird Satanist guys were. A lot of the comics coming out at the time were penned by moral objectivists or if they were left wing they were hardcore nativists and protectionist.

Hell even leftist pop cultural movements at the time were torn between Marxist globalist and militant working class protectionist guys.

You had fuckers like Clapton and even Bob Marley IIRC endorsing people like Enoch Powell.

There's the popculture myth and then there's the reality. The left has never held the kind of control they hold now.

It's all a psyop to demoralize and make you think you're metaphorically outgunned they have always been one angry bastard shit talking at them and ginning up the grillbros away from total defeat.

The problem with the right was the Cons spent a lot.of their power being moral busy bodies (which actually inspired Wokeism, who are aping a lot of the tactics used by the old religious right) this obsession with faux kindness and compassion and enabling is an artifact of the mistake that blew it for them and showed the enemy how to win.

 

[ShieldWife]

I am not a conservative; I am a nationalist. While there are many who call themselves conservatives who also value nationalism, the "US conservative movement" has a decades-long history of failing to uphold nationalist principles, not to mention failing to uphold conservative principles.

This is such a great point. I would call myself a nationalist as well, before a conservative or other similar label.

In large part, because in the modern USA (and likely much of the Western world) conservatism doesn’t really even mean anything anymore. Conservatism means to give tax cuts and special privileges to mega-corporations that hate and would destroy most Americans who identify as conservatives. Conservatism means waging wars against nations half the world away that have never attacked us while opening wide our borders for a literal invasion to come through unopposed. Conservatism is to look at the Democrats who openly advocate for eradicating white people and say that they’re actually too pro-white.

“Conservatism” has a decades long history of failing to uphold nationalistic principles, followed by a decades long history of actively fighting to undermine nationalistic principles.

Sorry, that’s a bit of a tangent.

Anyway, as the Immortal Watch Dog said, sex changes are like lobotomies in that they are preformed and endorsed by experts while being proven to cause permanent harm with scant evidence of actually helping anybody. Being against someone being lobotomized isn’t bigotry, it’s compassion for the victim. A major difference is that the practice of so called sex changes are backed by a fanatical, yet secular, religion where as the lobotomies weren’t held up as sacred rites.

It does come down to truth, though, to a large degree. I don’t care so much what adults choose to do with their own bodies, but we live in a society where we all see 4 lights and must say that we actually see 5, and many people have said 5 lights for so long that they now actually see 5 lights. Men are men and women are women regardless of how people feel.

 

[Stargazer]

Kindness is a courtesy that trans people have utterly exhausted beyond any and all consideration and continuing to bestow kindness to such a dangerously unstable, abusive and predatory group of people who routinely take advantage of such kindness ceases to be an act of virtue and starts to be an act of seditious appeasement.

The left as a whole takes advantage of your kindness. Exploits it ruthlessly and you continue to show your bellies.

These people? Routinely brag online about exposing themselves in front of children, grooming children and repeatedly talk about how they're coming after yours and you still want to show your belly?

You people aren't being virtuous, you're being weak.

And I refuse to allow my foster country to be stolen from my children because our supposed conservative allies keep surrendering ground and limping in front of the pride of hungry lions.

Because you're scared of being called racist, phobic or mean.

Screw that.

Edit or let me put it to you this way.

Kindness at the expense of a nation or its innocenta is an act of treason and if conservatives continue to compromise the future of the United States by being so pathetic and weak and self obsessed with dead principles

Then you're not trying make this world a better place. You're aiding and abetting it's destruction.

I fundamentally believe that how you treat others, even your enemies, isn't contingent on how they treat you. Turn the other cheek. Is there a point where you act to protect yourself? Sure, but the simple kindness of not using needless derogatory language falls far short of that point. If you think that's "appeasement", you have a very warped view of kindness to begin with.

I also agree with @LordsFire and think it's wrong to base your treatment of an entire group of people off the actions of some people in that group. That's prejudice. In general I try not to think in categories of "these people", I think that's a dangerous road to go down.

You think those beliefs make me weak? *shrug* I don't really care. I'm not trying to be your ally. And if you think I'm scared of what people will call me, that just tells me you don't understand my motivations anyways.

I doubt we really agree on what would "make the world a better place" to begin with, so I'm not all that interested in you lecturing me on if I'm doing a good job of that or not.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

You think those beliefs make me weak? *shrug* I don't really care. I'm not trying to be your ally. And if you think I'm scared of what people will call me, that just tells me you don't understand my motivations anyways.
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This isn't about you, or how you feel or don't feel about anything.

It's about the fact that you and people like.you have enabled evil, biblical evil to takeover this country with your blind tolerance and obsession with turning the other cheek.

You have endangered the rest of us, our Republic was assaulted and an election stolen and why? Because going on the attack and humiliating the enemy gave us back some measure of power over our lives and now these desperate lunatics are killing us in the streets, framing us us crimes and feeding our children to groomers and communists and you want to continue to just enable this.

Your position wrought this evil

The least you can do is get the hell out of our way and let us fight it without clutching your pearls and obstructing us.

I doubt we really agree on what would "make the world a better place" to begin with, so I'm not all that interested in you lecturing me on if I'm doing a good job of that or not.

Yet you think you have the right to lecture us. Who fight back.

You do not.

 

[Stargazer]

This isn't about you, or how you feel or don't feel about anything.

It's about the fact that you and people like.you have enabled evil, biblical evil to takeover this country with your blind tolerance and obsession with turning the other cheek.

You have endangered the rest of us, our Republic was assaulted and an election stolen and why? Because going on the attack and humiliating the enemy gave us back some measure of power over our lives and now these desperate lunatics are killing us in the streets, framing us us crimes and feeding our children to groomers and communists and you want to continue to just enable this.

Your position wrought this evil

The least you can do is get the hell out of our way and let us fight it without clutching your pearls and obstructing us.

Not wanting to use needless derogatory language has enabled "Biblical evil" to take over this country? You're delusional.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Not wanting to use needless derogatory language has enabled "Biblical evil" to take over this country? You're delusional.

That is a dishonest interpretation of what I said and you know it.

The position of the conservative to be blindly tolerant and concede ground to the left? Yeah that enabled it.

Your utter refusal to fight back and fight back ruthlessly. Yes that enabled it.

Your unwillingness to see the left for what it is? Yeah, that enabled it.

So much for.your high minded virtue, you immediately resorted to obtuse misdirection the moment you got pressured.

 

[Stargazer]

That is a dishonest interpretation of what I said and you know it.

The position of the conservative to be blindly tolerant and concede ground to the left? Yeah that enabled it.

Your utter refusal to fight back and fight back ruthlessly. Yes that enabled it.

Your unwillingness to see the left for what it is? Yeah, that enabled it.

So much for.your high minded virtue, you immediately reported to obtuse misdirection the moment you got pressured.

That's all I was saying, to not use needless derogatory language. You asked why should we "censor ourselves", and I gave my reason. Now you're doing a whole bunch of projecting onto me about my "refusal to fight back", when you know nothing about me. Just that I asked that we be kind enough to not use derogatory language.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

That's all I was saying, to not use needless derogatory language. You asked why should we "censor ourselves", and I gave my reason. Now you're doing a whole bunch of projecting onto me about my "refusal to fight back", when you know nothing about me. Just that I asked that we be kind enough to not use derogatory language.

One thing is emblematic of the other and I was calling to attention that attitude.

 

[Stargazer]

One thing is emblematic of the other and I was cling to attention that attitude.

Right. You seem to think that valuing kindness, even towards enemies, is weakness. As small a kindness as not using derogatory language. So to reiterate, I don't care what you think. Go address your rants to someone who does. And if you think I'm in your way on issues for wanting to be kind, tough luck pal. I'm not moving.

 

[LordsFire]

Hollywood yes, but you still had a huge conservative presence in Hollywood at the time and centrists like Disney throwing thrit weight behind them.



Well for starters most heavy metal was right wing even the weird Satanist guys were. A lot of the comics coming out at the time were penned by moral objectivists or if they were left wing they were hardcore nativists and protectionist.

Hell even leftist pop cultural movements at the time were torn between Marxist globalist and militant working class protectionist guys.

You had fuckers like Clapton and even Bob Marley IIRC endorsing people like Enoch Powell.

There's the popculture myth and then there's the reality. The left has never held the kind of control they hold now.

It's all a psyop to demoralize and make you think you're metaphorically outgunned they have always been one angry bastard shit talking at them and ginning up the grillbros away from total defeat.

The problem with the right was the Cons spent a lot.of their power being moral busy bodies (which actually inspired Wokeism, who are aping a lot of the tactics used by the old religious right) this obsession with faux kindness and compassion and enabling is an artifact of the mistake that blew it for them and showed the enemy how to win.

I'm sorry, but I can't really see how this at all correlates to reality.

Conservatism in America is and always has been at its heart a Christian movement, based on Christian morality and ideology. In the last years, as the left's mask has slipped more and more, a decent percentage of non-Christians have started to come onboard, but them being any more than a tiny minority is a very recent thing.

And up through to the 2000's, any attack on Christian cultural values was also attack on American conservatism. Because while the two were not the same thing, all of their core elements overlapped.

Hollywood, rock and roll, pop music, etc, have all at the very best been neutral to conservatives, and far more often have been hostile. There is literally an entirely separate Christian music industry, which notionally started in the 70's, but didn't properly get going until the late 80's and the 90's, up to and including Christian radio stations. That's how hostile the secular music industry is towards Christian media.

Now, that's not to say that the radical left hasn't tightened its' grip on the media over the last two decades. Up into the 2000's, there were still more moderate leftists, and more 'just self-interested' leftists in positions of influence and authority around such things, including actual patriots.

So no, while the leftists in popular culture in the 80's and 90's weren't as crazy and as destructive to the conservative movement as the current ones are, they also certainly were not conservatives in and of themselves.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I'm sorry, but I can't really see how this at all correlates to reality.
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Considering I just highlighted reality to you, I don't know what to tell you.

Stay blackpilled I guess?

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Finding a single example of a trans person who happens to also be a sex offender does not constitute evidence for the argument that all trans people are sex predators, especially when the crime committed by the cited individual had absolutely nothing with being trans (and, indeed, the cited individual did not identify as trans until after they were convicted and imprisoned). To be quite blunt, this line of argument is exactly as unhinged as the radical feminists who claim that all trans women are collectively guilty of rape because they are "appropriating the form of a woman" and also collectively guilty of murder because transitioning is "symbolically murdering their mother".

(And no, that is not a bizarre strawman or cherry-picking crazy nobodies on the Internet; those are arguments that prominent, well-known radical feminist leaders have actually made in published material).

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Ah yes its only one single troon, there's not thousands of examples out there that are constantly brought up. Nope! Sirreeee

Okay Baghdad Bob!

 

[ShadowArxxy]

Ah yes its only one single troon, there's not thousands of examples out there that are constantly brought up. Nope! Sirreeee

Okay Baghdad Bob!

I'm not responsible for the lack of evidence you bring to the table, and you cannot actually claim to deal in facts when you assert that one anecdotal example is sufficient proof for sweeping generalizations about entire groups.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

I'm not responsible for the lack of evidence you bring to the table, and you cannot actually claim to deal in facts when you assert that one anecdotal example is sufficient proof for sweeping generalizations about entire groups.

This is hilarious because it involves what you always do, gaslight, pearl clutch and then straight up distort reality to defend the groomers. I've actually put plenty of shit out here, as have many others who have gone out of their way to accommodate you.

I just assume you're liar and will distort everything and dishonestly demand sources that fit only with your worldview so I just sourcebro you and refuse to engage in roundabout stonewalling.

Cope, because I'll never cede an inch to you...Ever

*Sees site owner lurking*

I will now recuse myself from this thread for the time being as I've zero interest in eating another ban because I want hard against someone with protection.

Peace.

 

[Whitestrake Pelinal]

I'm not responsible for the lack of evidence you bring to the table, and you cannot actually claim to deal in facts when you assert that one anecdotal example is sufficient proof for sweeping generalizations about entire groups.

You are, however, responsible for ignoring the obvious.

Further, in a situation where the opposition insists on defending the indefensible, it is advantageous to let them keep doing it. A bunch of links to 'trusted sources' wouldn't really convince anyone of anything, this is a highly emotional matter, one decided by rhetoric not logic. Such links might steer discussion away from topics on which the opposition cannot help but stab themselves in the dick.

Meanwhile, the normies are getting confused. They skim the shit they see on their phones, and with startling regularity observe articles such as "California trans-woman under investigation, female cell mate discovered pregnant". They blink, and mutter under their breath, "but you said she was a woman..."

As the saying goes, the truth points to itself.

 

[ShadowArxxy]

This is hilarious because it involves what you always do, gaslight, pearl clutch and then straight up distort reality to defend the groomers. I've actually put plenty of shit out here, as have many others who have gone out of their way to accommodate you.

If anyone actually thinks I'm being inaccurate about the facts of the Riemer case, I refer you all to the primary sources on the matter, which are John Colapinto's groundbreaking article in Rolling Stone magazine (1997, Issue 11, pgs 54-73) and his subsequent full-length book, "As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl".

The facts of that case are entirely well-documented, and I reiterate that they have nothing to do with trans people or trans activism. IWD's claim that John should have been treated using "neurocorrective medication or therapy" demonstrates a profound ignorance of said facts, since even if such treatment was effective, it wouldn't be applicable in his case.

If this is the case, what's with all the lawsuits from young adults who have 'de-transitioned'?

Such cases are extremely rare -- a tiny minority-of-a-minority. Even the very doctor you referred to yourself, McHugh formerly of Johns Hopkins, agreed that the overwhelming majority of transition patients had no regrets and were satisfied with their transition; he argued that the secondary benefits outside of transition itself were statistically unconvincing.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

If anyone actually thinks I'm being inaccurate . IWD's claim that John should have been treated using "neurocorrective medication or therapy" demonstrates a profound ignorance of said facts, since even if such treatment was effective, it wouldn't be applicable in his case.

Or, you're a lying militant who really, really. Really wants to see more innocent people groomed and mutilated to fill a void that can never be filled and you yet again got so triggered that you fucking lied about my post.

this for anyone who isn't you...yet is suckered into believing your nonsense;

It is evil, a cure should have been developed in the form of neurocorrective medication and therapies..not..violent enabling for profit and idealogical reasons.

Was a generality, speaking about how the issue of body dysphoric disorder should be treated not how a victim of medical abuse and pederasty should have been treated. Any cure for transgenderism could not have been developed in his time, hence why I was speaking in lamentations about what wasn't and what could yet be.

Or that is to say.

Be less obvious.

 

[The Immortal Watch Dog]

Word to the wise.

Fuckers have been coming at me online the way you are for two decades. I'm still here and they all got buried like job guys in the ring with Goldberg on a nitrocast.

You keep stepp'n, you'll start tripp'n.

 

[Captain X]

If anyone actually thinks I'm being inaccurate about the facts of the Riemer case, I refer you all to the primary sources on the matter, which are John Colapinto's groundbreaking article in Rolling Stone magazine (1997, Issue 11, pgs 54-73) and his subsequent full-length book, "As Nature Made Him: The Boy Who Was Raised as a Girl".

The facts of that case are entirely well-documented, and I reiterate that they have nothing to do with trans people or trans activism.

Tell the trans-activists that.