Lenin instead of Stalin as the Soviet Union’s leadership

[WolfBear]

Can that be validated, mainly because we've had some lousy academia in that department? Just checking because we've had some groups pulling some 1984 shit on Tzarist Russia.

You think that academia is too pro-Tsarist? In spite of it being very Jewish?

 

[Aaron Fox]

You think that academia is too pro-Tsarist? In spite of it being very Jewish?

No, because I've seen some horrible academic work get published over the years, or should I remind you of the entire anti-vax BS? Or that the entire Lost Cause is a thing?

 

[sillygoose]

Problem, Russia needed to industrialize quickly, or have you forgotten that those five-year plans were Trotsky's idea in the first place? Stalin only implemented them.

When Trotsky -Lenin's right-hand man and far closer to Lenin in ideology than Stalin- recognized the need to crash-industrialize...

Sure, but the NEP was producing more grain than Stalin's collectivization ultimately did, so it was possible to run the 5 year plan without collectivization and de-kulakization and get an even better result. Remember cash that was used for industrialization was raised by exporting grains, production of which collapsed because of collectivization and de-kulakization, which meant that the exporting still happened, but the people were left to starve when there wasn't enough food being produced to also feed the people. You see overly fixation on the industrialization part and ignoring what the NEP actually was.

That... isn't entirely the case. You would be surprised at how bloody Russia was during the Tzarist industrialization era, though that kind of ended prematurely with Nicky's predecessor's untimely demise.

You're relying on Soviet propaganda about how bad the Czarist period actually was. It wasn't great, but given the development levels of Russia that is to be expected. Even with WW1 and the RCW there is no reason for Soviet policies to have slaughtered that many people other than problems inherent to the people who ran the early USSR.

You should check out this book:
Amazon product ASIN 1634241231
It covers how the US banking interests were financing Soviet (and earlier liberal) efforts to oust the Czar so as to gain control over the vast raw material wealth of the country, which meant the Anglophone world ended up getting propagandized about how bad the Czar was to help the 'cause'.

 

[sillygoose]

This.Soviet system worked only if you purged people regullary,including your army and secret police.Without that,it must fall,like in OTL.

At the rate the US is going I'm starting to think that also applies to the corporate crony system as well.

 

[WolfBear]

Sure, but the NEP was producing more grain than Stalin's collectivization ultimately did, so it was possible to run the 5 year plan without collectivization and de-kulakization and get an even better result. Remember cash that was used for industrialization was raised by exporting grains, production of which collapsed because of collectivization and de-kulakization, which meant that the exporting still happened, but the people were left to starve when there wasn't enough food being produced to also feed the people. You see overly fixation on the industrialization part and ignoring what the NEP actually was.


You're relying on Soviet propaganda about how bad the Czarist period actually was. It wasn't great, but given the development levels of Russia that is to be expected. Even with WW1 and the RCW there is no reason for Soviet policies to have slaughtered that many people other than problems inherent to the people who ran the early USSR.

You should check out this book:
Amazon product ASIN 1634241231
It covers how the US banking interests were financing Soviet (and earlier liberal) efforts to oust the Czar so as to gain control over the vast raw material wealth of the country, which meant the Anglophone world ended up getting propagandized about how bad the Czar was to help the 'cause'.

Re: Tsarist Russia: This article is a good read:

Twilight Imperium?

Modern Economic Growth in Tsarist Russia

daviskedrosky.substack.com

Tsarist Russia actually wasn't doing all that badly, all things considered.

 

[sillygoose]

Re: Tsarist Russia: This article is a good read:

Twilight Imperium?

Modern Economic Growth in Tsarist Russia

daviskedrosky.substack.com

Tsarist Russia actually wasn't doing all that badly, all things considered.

Agreed.

 

[ATP]

You also forget that every time Russia 'modernized', it was on top of a pile of bodies. So it's business as usual.

Nope.Stołypin do not genocide anybody,and his reforms was turning Russia into first world economy.Thus why Wall Street send Trocky&thugs to made revolution,and later supported soviets till they fall.
They wanted to destroy competitors.

P.S @sillygoose ,you are right about corporate system.It would either fall,or start genocide.

 

[WolfBear]

Nope.Stołypin do not genocide anybody,and his reforms was turning Russia into first world economy.Thus why Wall Street send Trocky&thugs to made revolution,and later supported soviets till they fall.
They wanted to destroy competitors.

P.S @sillygoose ,you are right about corporate system.It would either fall,or start genocide.

Did anyone continue Stolypin's reforms after his assassination? Interestingly enough, he was assassinated by a Jewish radical/revolutionary.

Agreed.

Yeah, I really do think that Tsarist Russia had a lot of potential during the 20th century and that its leadership squandered it by needlessly entering WWI. And if Tsarist military officers threatened to coup Nicholas II had he refused to fight for Serbia, well, then these officers should have been swiftly fired, if not even outright shot, for such extremely blatant insubordination to their sovereign at a time of such a vital and important crisis.